Increase in vaccine coercion

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Carl-Richard my perspective is similar to that of a Starfish.. I don't care if the Lion eats the Gazelle, or if the Gazelle escapes the Lion. 

Lions eating Gazelles is great from the perspective of a Lion, not so great from the Gazelle's point of view... 

Doesn't matter which one happens to the Starfish.

But you are a starfish, so I bet you wouldn't like being killed off by pollution of the seabed.

[Mason Riggle]

@Carl-Richard you are missing the point of the analogy.  

So many people here acting as if their own selfish concerns are objective concerns.. humans shouldn't suffer, etc.. but this isn't objectively true. This is like saying we mustn't let lions eat because Gazelle's shouldn't suffer.. We've got to stop the Lions, you see. 

Saying people 'should get vaccinated' to stop a deadly pandemic, is like saying, the Gazelle should outrun the Lion.. but should it?? Only if you're a Gazelle. Don't you see how selfish the Gazelle is being? 

From a higher perspective, there isn't any outcome that 'should' happen over any other.

The sentence 'Humans shouldn't suffer and die' is completely subjective. 

 

[Windappreciator]

41 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

What is that?

You already know

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Carl-Richard you are missing the point of the analogy.  

So many people here acting as if their own selfish concerns are objective concerns.. humans shouldn't suffer, etc.. but this isn't objectively true. This is like saying we mustn't let lions eat because Gazelle's shouldn't suffer.. We've got to stop the Lions, you see. 

Saying people 'should get vaccinated' to stop a deadly pandemic, is like saying, the Gazelle should outrun the Lion.. but should it?? Only if you're a Gazelle. Don't you see how selfish the Gazelle is being? 

From a higher perspective, there isn't any outcome that 'should' happen over any other.

The sentence 'Humans shouldn't suffer and die' is completely subjective. 

True, but stating that changes nothing. To expect that it does is just a form of absolute-relative conflation (which is nothing new on this forum). There is no reason to invoke The Absolute perspective in a conversation about relative matters (unless it's actually warranted) and expect that it changes anything or that it is in any way relevant to what humans ought to do in any given situation. The Absolute doesn't negate the relative.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

16 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

You already know

No.

[Mason Riggle]

@Carl-Richard at least you admit that what humans 'should do' is relative.

[Carl-Richard]

49 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Carl-Richard at least you admit that what humans 'should do' is relative.

Uh yes 

[Windappreciator]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

No.

Yeah, you do, shut up.

[Ananta]

30 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

Yeah, you do, shut up.

Forum guidelines:

#1 Rule: Don't Be A Jerk
Speak to people with respect. Be conscious and nice.

 

[Windappreciator]

3 hours ago, Windappreciator said:

@Carl-Richard @BadHippie

 

5 minutes ago, Ananta said:

Forum guidelines:

#1 Rule: Don't Be A Jerk
Speak to people with respect. Be conscious and nice.

 

Let me tell you something.

That wasn't meant the way you think and Carl isn't offended by it.

You're also not a mod anymore ?

[Ananta]

29 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

Let me tell you something.

I'm all ears ?

30 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

That wasn't meant the way you think

Oh, okay, didn't know there were several meanings to "shut up".

31 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

Carl isn't offended by it.

Really? Okay, and you know this how? Even if he isn't it seems RUDE to readers.

32 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

You're also not a mod anymore ?

So? You don't have to be a mod to point out someone is being a jerk by telling another member to "shut up". 

[Windappreciator]

4 minutes ago, Ananta said:

I'm all ears ?

Oh, okay, didn't know there were several meanings to "shut up".

Really? Okay, and you know this how? Even if he isn't it seems RUDE to readers.

So? You don't have to be a mod to point out someone is being a jerk by telling another member to "shut up". 

Shut up 

[Ananta]

4 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

Shut up 

Right back at ya!

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Windappreciator said:

That wasn't meant the way you think and Carl isn't offended by it.

I'm still waiting to grasp what the heck you're trying to communicate to me ?

[Windappreciator]

@Ananta Ok, I will listen @Carl-Richard too late

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

More than 38,000 people die every year in crashes on U.S. roadways. ...

An additional 4.4 million are injured seriously enough to require medical attention.

Road crashes are the leading cause of death in the U.S. for people aged 1-54.

Why are we not mandating a 15 MPH speed limit!! We could be eliminating soooooo much suffering.. but the fact is.. we don't really care about human death and suffering as much as we pretend too..  To be able to travel in comfort, and get where we need to go quickly, is apparently worth 38,000 human lives/year... but I'm not sure we're ready to have that conversation here.

Which is why wearing a seat belt and having insurance is mandated by law.

So according your own logic it is perfectly fine to hand out tickets for not being vaccinated and to even get sued if you infect someone else. It is also perfectly okay for police to keep a national database of your vaccination record and restrict you from operating without a license.

This is all your own logic.

Also note, car crashes are not contagious. A virus literally goes viral. So a loose virus is WAY worse than all the car crashes in the world. 38k people died of cars crashes, but 600k died from Covid. 20x difference. And Covid hasn't finished.

[Seed]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So according your own logic it is perfectly fine to hand out tickets for not being vaccinated and to even get sued if you infect someone else. It is also perfectly okay for police to keep a national database of your vaccination record and restrict you from operating without a license.

 

Some key difference here in car safety law and a mandatory vaccine roll out. 

Not one car safety law involves forcing citizens to put a shot into their body, that is not sufficiently tested, have no idea what is in it, whether it even works or what the side effects are. And those are just the facts. If people choose to be part of this giant human experiment, then fairplay, that is very brave and helpful for trial and error. But it should be totally within that person's choice whether they want to have it, at this very early and still unpredicatable stage. 

Also, if people do not wish to follow care safety law, they can take other forms of transport to ensure they can still live a quality life. Having rights take away for not taking this shot, does not equate to this.

I currently feel I will  eventually be forced to choose between my health and my rights. And I personally, as a healthy young person, feel this is wrong. However, I respect everyones views here. There are of course 8 billion people on the planet. SO there will be 8 billion views.

From a collective perspective, I just feel this vaccine route is wrong on so many levels. This is my personal opinion made from what I can see going on around me. Many of my friends periods have stopped since the vaccination and / or they are having very erratic periods. If this vaccine is strong enough to throw off some as natural and key to health as the monthly cycle, just what else is it capable of. Medical experts are saying it will 'settle down'. However my friends still havent 'settled down' after three months. Yet, in our country (UK) 16 - 17 year olds are now being pushed to take the vaccine without parental permission. And if you do not believe me, please google periods, covid vaccine and see for yourself. It is the most common side effect. 

I am just using my brain (and intuiton) here. And there is something very 'off' about this route. Please think for youself and take care.

[Consept]

@Seed you can actually find out what's in the vaccine, it's all open to the public https://portal.ct.gov/Coronavirus/Covid-19-Knowledge-Base/Vaccine-Ingredients

But what I wanted to ask is if the vaccine is the right route out what do you think is the right way out of the pandemic? 

Keep in mind the numbers are what they are even with all the social distancing. Also healthy eating and lifestyle are great to do but are a preventative measure and wouldn't have had too much effect on the pandemic if people only started during the pandemic. 

[Seed]

54 minutes ago, Consept said:

@Seed you can actually find out what's in the vaccine, it's all open to the public https://portal.ct.gov/Coronavirus/Covid-19-Knowledge-Base/Vaccine-Ingredients

But what I wanted to ask is if the vaccine is the right route out what do you think is the right way out of the pandemic? 

Keep in mind the numbers are what they are even with all the social distancing. Also healthy eating and lifestyle are great to do but are a preventative measure and wouldn't have had too much effect on the pandemic if people only started during the pandemic. 

I am not a virologist so these ingredients mean nothing to me. I can’t speak for the entire population, but logic tells me that rest of the vast majority will not have a clu what  these ingredients are and their combined reactions either. Let’s not insult the science community here, who have spent years studying this stuff to assume we too know wht is in the vaccine simply  by reading words on a list!! 

Also. I don’t believe that what I read on the media is accurate given how much is already and blatantly  censored and manipulated.  

I believe the right route is not worsening the situation by causing more division, more fear and what I potentially believe subsequently weakened or potentially destroyed immune systems and further virus mutations !!! I am also extremely cautious of anything that puts so much stress on the body the menstual cycle is affected, That is not a reasonable way out, that is causing more damage. And highly risky for something we do not yet know works. 

I also believe we should continue to develop medicine as safely as possible and offer the vaccine for those who’d like to have it! Medicine should always be an option!!  Absolutely! But forcing people to take something by witholding their rights is totaly not the right route. 

I have a moral obligation to look after my body and I believe (at this stage) to have this vaccine would not be taking care of it and therefore morally irresponsible. 

I also think we have to accept Mother Nature. And I know this is very upsetting but death is a part of life. And sadly some people will not be able to fight it off. Again, not that we shouldnt try. But there is a line. Medicine is a study which is always developing and evolving and involves trial and error. Humans have the right to take it or leave it. It's up to them! I personally think this vaccine is not the safe route. I am sorry if that offends people. 

As far as i can see. Science is at war with nature and just can’t see it ending well. 

Again. My thoughts. Not saying i hold the absolute truth. I am one opinion in 8 billion. And thanks for taking the time to read them

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Seed

[BadHippie]

Quote

Also note, car crashes are not contagious. A virus literally goes viral. So a loose virus is WAY worse than all the car crashes in the world. 38k people died of cars crashes, but 600k died from Covid. 20x difference. And Covid hasn't finished.

You mean 600.000 people died WITH a positive test, when they died. That´s not the same as dying from COVID. A tiny part dies BECAUSE of COVID (and even that can be questioned and should be questioned).
What would they write on the death-certificate if we didn´t have a "COVID-test"???  

You always talk about epistemology, yet your epistemology seems to lack in nuance. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by BadHippie