Increase in vaccine coercion

[Consept]

Anti-vaxxers will be proved wrong by history, you can have all the debate you want but it will 100% be the case. The epistemology is just all over the place and the lack of awareness that the position is entirely fear based shows the where people are at. I know there will be strong negative reactions to this but that is how it is when ideological positions are challenged, I hold a lot of compassion regardless of the position but it will play out that youll be on the wrong side of history on this one unfortunately 

[impulse9]

@Carl-Richard I am not claiming that the vaccine is ineffective. I'm not claiming that it's a part of some government plot or grand conspiracy. What I am claiming is that I don't trust taking it into my body, I prefer my immune system deal with it in the natural way.

[Carl-Richard]

14 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

@Carl-Richard I am not claiming that the vaccine is ineffective. I'm not claiming that it's a part of some government plot or grand conspiracy.

That's fine, but now you shifted from talking about everybody in here to just yourself. Leo wasn't only talking about you... unless you're feeling that hit by his statement? 

 

14 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

What I am claiming is that I don't trust taking it into my body, I prefer my immune system deal with it in the natural way.

+ deal with any potential neurological damage to your olfactory system etc.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[impulse9]

Only because I've seen mostly reasonable comments from the skeptic side, and I've seen borderline militant, threating, and insulting comments coming from the forced vaccines side. If you think that being skeptical about what you put into your body is somehow a poisonous ideology, then I don't know what to say to you. Again, I'm off, no point in continuing this.

[Carl-Richard]

34 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Only because I've seen mostly reasonable comments from the skeptic side, and I've seen borderline militant, threating, and insulting comments coming from the forced vaccines side. If you think that being skeptical about what you put into your body is somehow a poisonous ideology, then I don't know what to say to you. Again, I'm off, no point in continuing this.

If you're really as threat-sensitive and sober, forward-thinking of an individual as you proport to be, imagine how bad this pandemic could get if a new super-lethal mutant gets spawned. Imagine living in that world while knowing that it could've all been avoided if you weren't so afraid of needles. Talk about a loss of human rights. This isn't speculative fearmongering. This is the reality of viruses, and it's time to wake up.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Gennadiy1981]

@lmfao Thank you. I like your approach, its very private, it has to do with your decision and I totally respect that. Indeed I am a strong believer that people can do not only with their bodies what they want but even with their lives, but I have an issue when someone tells me what to do with my life, especially if they are even lacking expertise on the topic.

But again, I was giving positive criticism to Leo, and in no way was it derogatory. Indeed thanks to Leo I was able to truly deconstruct my mind. And I like how radical Leo is compare to other masters, who sort of give you a very liberal and free approach to spirituality, like you come to them and they will just tell you to feel yourself and take it easy, while Leo rubs it in your eyes and at least to me that is the best approach. We humans are so closed minded and are so lazy to go outside our comfort zone that we need a push. But I think this conversation is already getting to another forum topic.

[AtheisticNonduality]

@impulse9 Your libertarianism is arbitrary.

[Loba]

I'll give my full response on Thursday, I had an awakening into getting the vaccine, that had come from left field.  It will take a while to write up, as I have not gone into what sent me to the hospital (I was in a hostage situation at the ER a month and a half ago and got some very deep mystical insights into personal karma and collective responsibility through the deity that I work with.)

I had been waiting to get my vaccine due to autoimmune issues, and still had karma hit me in the face with it.

The vaccine doesn't stop the virus completely, but it prevents it from becoming a possible death sentence.  So it has not been perfect, but why would that be a reason not to take it? 
On top of this, nothing that I have said would force another person to take the vaccine - just simply keep them from places where vaccinated/high risk areas/people are located; traveling, restaurants and the like to keep it from spreading as much as we can.  

I disagree with the sentiment here on provocateurs, and think that with such things that provoking a response can be an acceptable thing to do.  Not everything has to be polite in order to get your point across.   We don't have to sing kumbaya and hold hands while disagreeing.
I've read the retorts, and I don't 'feel' provoked by them, so... don't feel that way about me for attempting to get across the idiocy of not getting a vaccine that can prevent OR lessen the symptoms of a potentially deadly virus - especially in this day and age - during a pandemic.

If you catch it without even 'trying' to take precautions, and give it to many people, then that's not cool.  At all.  It may be your body, but you're playing Russian roulette with the lives of your community.  Karmically, that is a big problem.  For them and for you.  If you have not had to actively question if your life is equally worth that of another person's - and to be in a life and death situation where you have had to admit that the person next to you has a future worth more than yours - then you don't know what you're talking about and it is all speculation because society has mollycoddled people into not really seeing that the world is sink or swim, eat or be eaten.  It's nature.  And karma doesn't care about how you "feel" about your actions, only that you can make the choice that benefits more than just yourself.  I "feel" like benefitting more than just myself doesn't cut it.

Mutual causal interaction.  How well can you keep other chains healthy?  We live in a community and an ecosystem and it should be treated this way.  Arbiter of truth?  Uh.  Yeah.

I view life as precious, and want to make sure you and other people are safe.  How dare I?

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Loba

[Plabs]

@Leo Gura Do you remember when you use to think psychedelics were for stupid people?

I believe you’re going to come around on this as well and realise that some shady stuff is happening in the world right now… maybe after your 10th Pfizer shot ?☺️

[Gesundheit2]

6 hours ago, impulse9 said:

There's a LOT of weird circumstances around them @Carl-Richard. I won't get into it because I don't want to piss you off more than you already are, but here's just one thing that bothers me:

Quote

Under the PREP Act, companies like Pfizer and Moderna have total immunity from liability if something unintentionally goes wrong with their vaccines

That's just part of a standard formal contract that's very much the norm anywhere within the medical field. The purpose of it is simply to ensure the legal rights and preserve the jobs of the employees (doctors and pharmacists, etc.).

They're basically saying: "We are going to do our best, but we can't guarantee you life. We can only promise you to work hard and to the best of our current knowledge and ability. But we can't give you health or life, so don't expect that from us."

If you ever go to a hospital, that's one of the first things you need to sign before they could admit you in. Otherwise, you're free to go somewhere else. Because they don't have to take responsibility for such inevitable risks. So, unfortunately, with that perfectionistic mindset, there won't be any treatment for you, unless you accept the realities of inevitable risks. Because even if everything is performed perfectly smoothly on the nano level, mistakes can still happen on some other unexpected level or place, and you can't just shut down the whole medical field for some edge case mistakes. And even if no mistakes happen, nobody can guarantee you life, health, or safety. There will always be risks involved in anything you do in life.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[nistake]

What baffles me is that if you have a slightly different opinion on this subject, you're pretty much instantly demonized and get labelled as "anti-vaxxer".

There are many-many different narratives out there that highly dispute the effectiveness and necessity of the vaccines and the authenticity of the mainstream media/narrative. And no, I'm not talking about random conspiracy theories from reddit. Some of these narratives are from actual doctors and scientific people. Obviously you won't find these sources on youtube or any other mainstream platform. Wonder why.

Anyway, I just don't understand Leo's and some other people's opinion in this thread given this is a "high consciousness" forum where people should be able to think for themselves and study this issue from different viewpoints.

[lmfao]

2 hours ago, Loba said:

I've read the retorts, and I don't 'feel' provoked by them

Ofc you  "̶"̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶"̶"̶ feel provoked 

[vladorion]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

This is interesting, considering that only about 50% of people in Massachusetts are fully vaccinated.

[AtheisticNonduality]

1 hour ago, vladorion said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

This is interesting, considering that only about 50% of people in Massachusetts are fully vaccinated.

Bullshit, I live in Massachusetts, and the vaccination rate is like 64%. And most of the vaccinated people probably live in the cities, where you're more likely to get it.

[Consept]

4 hours ago, nistake said:

There are many-many different narratives out there that highly dispute the effectiveness and necessity of the vaccines and the authenticity of the mainstream media/narrative

There are always many narratives on everything, but if you want to go down the scientific route, what is the scientific consensus for this vaccine? 

[Runtz]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People here who keep pushing the idea that the Covid vaccine is ineffective or part of some government plot or propaganda machine will be banned.

I expect better of you. Your gaslighting will not fly here. If you want to not get vaccinated, that's your biz, but you're not going to use this forum to spread poisonous ideas that will kill thousands of people.

Blame me all you want, but history and science will prove you wrong.

It is completely true that the covid vaccine is effective and that covid is not some government conspiracy.

However we should be allow to discuss the ways that governments use this pandemic for their own needs. For example, the vaccine passport, while off course a good idea within itself, is actually also a step towards a China like technocratic system. The covid passport has allowed for all identities to be verified digitally by anyone, even outside the original country.

Again, of course Covid is not a conspiracy but people in power are seeing it as an opportunity for new things.

"As we enter a unique window of opportunity to shape the recovery, this initiative will offer insights to help inform all those determining the future state of global relations, the direction of national economies, the priorities of societies, the nature of business models and the management of a global commons. Drawing from the vision and vast expertise of the leaders engaged across the Forum’s communities, the Great Reset initiative has a set of dimensions to build a new social contract that honours the dignity of every human being."

From https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/ .

Notice the "unique window of opportunity" they are talking about. that's what I mean. That doesn't mean the coming changes will be necessarily bad but we should be keeping an eye out.

[ceromonies]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People here who keep pushing the idea that the Covid vaccine is ineffective or part of some government plot or propaganda machine will be banned.

I expect better of you. Your gaslighting will not fly here. If you want to not get vaccinated, that's your biz, but you're not going to use this forum to spread poisonous ideas that will kill thousands of people.

Blame me all you want, but history and science will prove you wrong.

You are clearly pro-science and want the pandemic to end as much as the rest of us. This shows in all of your responses to vaccine hesitancy. Why is it then that whenever somebody cites the many scientific analyses surrounding the effectiveness of Ivermectin in treating disease, reducing long-haul symptoms and preventing contraction of SARS-CoV-2, you are nowhere to be seen? It is clear now that it is one of many available tools that could drive the virus to extinction, but its use is being suppressed despite the available evidence. One might assume this is in pursuit of profit. I would love to hear your thoughts on this, as would many of us.

[Recursoinominado]

1 hour ago, ceromonies said:

One might assume this is in pursuit of profit.

That's your biases.

When you decide a strategy for a GLOBAL PANDEMIC, one or two weak google searches aren't going to cut it.

Let the specialists decide, stop pretending you know what the fuck you are talking about.

[unborn_chicken]

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions!

It's all I see here

How come we're so unwilling to question them?

Instead we just take sides, as if we were perfect all-knowing beings...

Edited August 4, 2021 by unborn_chicken

[knakoo]

On 03/08/2021 at 5:19 AM, Loba said:

It's already shown that among those who are not vaccinated, that the virus is spreading, and mutating.

Is it really clear that the virus has more chance of mutating in non vaccinated people vs vaccinated people ?