Increase in vaccine coercion

[Opo]

21 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

I would fake them with pleasure.

This is why you're an antivaxxer. 

[impulse9]

I'm not - I've been vaccinated many times in the past.

[Loba]

@Clint Eastwood You're right we should be polite and allow irresponsible people to give other innocent victims this virus when there is such a simple solution - get the vaccine.    Especially on a forum where we are supposed to be standing behind truth, let's acquiesce instead and give them ass-pats for their bad decisions.  That's much less annoying. 

The point is that is has been spreading less with vaccinations.  It might still mutate, and it will take time for people in third world countries to get the vaccine.  I'm not sure what we can do for people in these areas, it is showing that without the shot that it spreads like wildfire, and that the symptoms are worse.  You can still get it with the shot but the symptoms are not as bad, so there will be less death and less spreading of this virus all around.  You can't get around that fact that the vaccine helps.

@Opo It could be as simple as like having an id to get into certain areas.  We already do this.

 

The thing is, this is just a warm up - literally.  With global warming becoming a greater problem in the future, and with innovations in travel, we are going to have an easier time going from one country to the next, these things (disease spreading) are going to be very common.  This is the time to start planning for such things, and finding solutions for the future.  This is a lesson in disease management for the world.

It can be as simple as "no shirt, no shoes, no vaccine, no service."  You don't have to force anyone to do anything, but just like a kid without an id trying to get into a bar at a young age, a vaccine card can keep these public spaces clean.

[impulse9]

And you're the arbiter of truth, aren't you @Loba ? All that's gonna happen with the approach you just described is you're gonna piss off an enormous amount of people and then they'll eat you alive. Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.

 

global warming

More unfounded hysteria. Fear sells well.

[BadHippie]

@Loba

Can you show me your so called "proof" that the vaccines actually work? 

Here in germany most people who get sick from COVID have been vaccinated...

There has just been a report on NY-Times that vaccinated people spread the so called "delta-variant" just as easily as unvaccinated people... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/health/covid-cdc-delta-masks.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
 

Edited August 3, 2021 by BadHippie

[Gennadiy1981]

I have to disagree with most of you and I am not coming from any conspiracy whatsoever, just relying on science. First of all people who refuse vaccinations are mostly from intelligence communities (and of course there are always exceptions) , see MIT study below

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2021/07/17/mit-study-vaccine-hesitancy-is-highly-informed-scientifically-literate-and-sophisticated-n1462591

So before calling them ignoramus I would ask you to think twice. Second of all, those vaccines do not seem to work as many people who are getting sick are fully vaccinated. If you take a country Israel for example, they were the first to implement the vaccinate program on population and now the hospitalizations are pretty much equal between Vaxxed and non Vaxxed

https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/06/reports-half-of-adults-in-israel-infected-in-latest-covid-19-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated/

And not to mention as per VAERS (CDC reporting system), as of now its slightly more than 500,000 people who got injured form the Covid vaccine, not to exclude about 11,000 deaths. 

So you have people like myself who is asking of why do i need such product injected into my body. And besides if it was such best product in the world, why do you need to coerce people into doing it? And how come manufacturers are not liable for the product and worse question of all, is how come FDA did not license it. 

After Nuremberg trial of what Nazis did, the UN passed laws that no human shall be forced to undergo medical procedure without their consensus. Especially for products that are still in experimental stage. We all can have intelligent conversation and please lets not use foul language here. Remember those who cannot debate, defame.

[Seed]

9 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

I have to disagree with most of you and I am not coming from any conspiracy whatsoever, just relying on science. First of all people who refuse vaccinations are mostly from intelligence communities (and of course there are always exceptions) , see MIT study below

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2021/07/17/mit-study-vaccine-hesitancy-is-highly-informed-scientifically-literate-and-sophisticated-n1462591

So before calling them ignoramus I would ask you to think twice. Second of all, those vaccines do not seem to work as many people who are getting sick are fully vaccinated. If you take a country Israel for example, they were the first to implement the vaccinate program on population and now the hospitalizations are pretty much equal between Vaxxed and non Vaxxed

https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/06/reports-half-of-adults-in-israel-infected-in-latest-covid-19-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated/

And not to mention as per VAERS (CDC reporting system), as of now its slightly more than 500,000 people who got injured form the Covid vaccine, not to exclude about 11,000 deaths. 

So you have people like myself who is asking of why do i need such product injected into my body. And besides if it was such best product in the world, why do you need to coerce people into doing it? And how come manufacturers are not liable for the product and worse question of all, is how come FDA did not license it. 

After Nuremberg trial of what Nazis did, the UN passed laws that no human shall be forced to undergo medical procedure without their consensus. Especially for products that are still in experimental stage. We all can have intelligent conversation and please lets not use foul language here. Remember those who cannot debate, defame.

Thank you. Finally some sense. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

The vaccines seem to not affect transmission in the worst cases, as some "vaccine hesitant" people are saying above, but the vaccines prevent severe hospitalization and death in those who have it. So it makes sense for it to be a personal choice for people who want to decrease their chances of death, even if they are young and relatively healthy. But there is a chance that it may decrease transmission rates slightly if the virus is detected soon enough in certain people, so it would be the right thing for everybody to get the vaccine in that case. But anyway, I'm pretty pessimistic on this topic as it seems that we are fucked anyway. The virus is going to continue to spread and stay around like the flu has.

[impulse9]

Fully agreed @Gennadiy1981, people who cheer this forceful coercion of vaccines have no understanding of neither science nor history. They talk about slippery slopes but they do not see the slippery slope of losing your freedom one piece at a time. They've been successfully scared by the media and now they fully believe the bullshit they've been sold, and are willing to step on anyone's opinion because they feel justified, they feel they're the saviors and people who resist are simply misguided - well, good luck convincing anyone with that approach.

[Plabs]

On 02/08/2021 at 10:51 AM, Leo Gura said:

Vaccines have alway been mandatory for school. So your whole logic is silly.

 

Where I live (France), only a few of them are mandatory and they've been made mandatory more than 10 years after being put on the market. There is no way we can compare that to this vaccine.  I don't know much about epistemology, but is it part of it to compare stuff that is not comparable ?

Also, I really don't understand why we try to vaccinate children (and all the population) when it's been shown that the vaccine is just 39% effective in blocking contamination. Yes, it helps people that are at risk and lowers the risk of dying, so let's vaccinate people who are at risk.

Why forcing everyone else ? Why trying to vaccinate our kids?

Just look at the AstraZeneca, it had to get to the market before we realized it was dangerous.

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I should place a vaccine mandate just for watching my videos, because if you can't clear that bar, nothing else I say will help you.

 

Wow, how can you be so sure of yourself to the point of insulting a huge part of your audience? Very triggering to read that from you. 

It's a very hard decision for everyone to take. Saying that most people are stupid because they don't trust this product is crazy. There has been so much propaganda and censorship since the beginning of the pandemic, how can people be trusting?

Also, the problem here is that it's not just about accepting the vaccine, it's about accepting 2 shots, which will soon be 3, which will soon be a yearly subscription you'll have with Pfizer.

And on a last note @Leo Gura - you have health issues that you don't understand or know where they are from, and yet you claim to know the truth about this health issue and the safety of this vaccine. How is that possible?

For example, what if your current health issues were linked to the vaccines you got as a kid? Or the antibiotics you took?  I'm not antivax and I don't know much about all that, I'm just wondering how you can think that you know what the truth is, to the point of insulting people.

Why don't you post a youtube video explaining all the research you've done and telling people to go get the vaccine? 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Plabs

[Plabs]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If this is not obvious to you, I don't even know why you follow my work.

I should place a vaccine mandate just for watching my videos, because if you can't clear that bar, nothing else I say will help you.

Deconstructing the mind and society is not a license for stupidity -- which is exactly how many people take it. I am starting to regret even sharing such pearls of wisdom because of how you guys abuse them.

"#1 Rule: Don't Be A Jerk
Speak to people with respect here. Be conscious and compassionate. Treat this place like a Zen temple, not a public toilet."

Source : https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/7-guidelines/

Sorry, had to do that  

[Gennadiy1981]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I should place a vaccine mandate just for watching my videos, because if you can't clear that bar, nothing else I say will help you.

Wow Leo, honestly you surprise me and at the same time prove to me that enlightened humans can be wrong too.

 

And please take this as a positive criticism, I do not not ever intended to insult you. Indeed I respect your teachings and understanding of reality, way more than any other people I know, and to say the least, I did meet tremendous amount of people who are enlightened. You truly have a deep understanding of God, concussions and infinite reality. I am a big fan of yours and I would fall in 1% of your audience who fully understand your teachings and explanation (This is something you keep mentioning number of times that indeed you have to digest further for 99% of your audiences). And thanks to your teachings I was able to unwind my biases of the ones I was raised with and of course it’s an ever process work. But with all deep respect to you, when it comes to politics, you let your ego loose and you bring your biases upfront. You are blindly support mostly one side without seriously questioning or even questioning at all. I, myself is politically maroon, I find good and bad in both parties but I tend to rather support individual as oppose to a party. When it comes to liberal politics (and I am not saying it’s all bad, they do have some very important factors) and vaccinations when it comes from liberal government, you unequivocally side with them. First of all, have you done any research on vaccinations? How many hours you spent in biology laboratory with viruses. Have you seen challenge results from animal studies. Have you read any scientific magazines with data showing trials, relative results vs absolute results. I would recommend for you to watch your show called “Deconstructing the myth of science, 3 part series”, where you question how can individual who actually is a scientist and only made one discovery while relying on discoveries of prior scientists can know that is the truth. Again, this is constructive criticism and nothing aimed to say anything bad about you. And I will repeat again, besides politics, I do agree with you on most items, how? Because I did have similar experiences and not just repeating your episodes, I can vouch that with my consciousness.

[Gesundheit2]

Funny how the dating section debates have stopped but this covid debate hasn't yet lol.

[lmfao]

On 01/08/2021 at 2:02 AM, Hardkill said:

Do you think that increasing vaccine coercion amongst the unvaccinated people that remain throughout the whole US is wise or could it actually backfire?

Question of good or bad policy, I don't care for, nothing learnt from that. I judge most people as retarded, concerned with shit that doesn't matter, spreading propaganda, blah blah blah I give myself a headache even saying that lmao 

Covid vaccines are one thing. What I ask is what else you get coerced into. What is coercion to begin with? What does it mean to be "co-operative"/"agreeable" , how/why should it be valued? 

 

I got my second shot of the vaccine today. I went because someone booked it for me, I didn't have much else to do. If I did have something else more important to do, and I was actually anti-vax, I just wouldn't go. I'm not anti-vax, I just don't care, although I think it's a bonus to be vaxed, probably

Zombie transformation complete. But at least I'll get permission papers to travel where I want 

Edited August 3, 2021 by lmfao

[lmfao]

@Gennadiy1981 Bro if you put more breaks and paragraphs into that it can be read easier 

But yeah I feel you. I hate Leo's approach to politics or whatever thing, but that doesn't mean I don't like his self development or consciousness work. No contradiction 

You don't have to like everything about a guru/gura. Leo himself has said about other teachers that you see what's good and what isn't.

It seems Leo aims for some sort of holistic approach where he talks about all these different domains, including politics. He takes a stance on politics whereas other gurus don't. I prefer the don't, but I'm not Leo. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by lmfao

[Leo Gura]

People here who keep pushing the idea that the Covid vaccine is ineffective or part of some government plot or propaganda machine will be banned.

I expect better of you. Your gaslighting will not fly here. If you want to not get vaccinated, that's your biz, but you're not going to use this forum to spread poisonous ideas that will kill thousands of people.

Blame me all you want, but history and science will prove you wrong.

[impulse9]

Nobody here is claiming anything of the sort. I've not seen even the slightest resemblance of anyone claiming they want people not to get vaccinated. If anything, the reverse holds true. You, and a few other people, insist that people _should_ get vaccinated, and get very militant whenever someone claims that they won't. It's literally against the law to force a medical procedure on someone unwilling, what you're saying here goes against basic humans rights.

Furthermore, you don't speak for neither history or science. God knows I respect you for the wisdom that you've freely shared with the world, but right now you're the only one here being a fool. I say this not to be an asshole but in hopes that you will reconsider your position on this. No one's claiming anything against vaccinations, what we're claiming is that no one except us should be in control of what goes into our bodies which isn't unreasonable at all, given all the circumstances around these vaccines.

[Carl-Richard]

42 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Nobody here is claiming anything of the sort. I've not seen even the slightest resemblance of anyone claiming they want people not to get vaccinated.

I think you might have read that slightly wrong:

 

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People here who keep pushing the idea that the Covid vaccine is ineffective or part of some government plot or propaganda machine will be banned.

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[impulse9]

There's a LOT of weird circumstances around them @Carl-Richard. I won't get into it because I don't want to piss you off more than you already are, but here's just one thing that bothers me:

Under the PREP Act, companies like Pfizer and Moderna have total immunity from liability if something unintentionally goes wrong with their vaccines

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'll spare the rest as I said, and actually I'm done with this thread. Seems to me like I came in wanting to share my opinion and I ended up caught up between two sides who blame and refuse to listen each other. It's not loving behavior and it's not wise dwelling on this any further. I apologize to anyone I may have potentially offended with my posts.

[Carl-Richard]

@impulse9 You might want to re-read what you just responded to.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Carl-Richard