Leo and his behaviors and actions

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, Merkabah said:

Because there is ZERO volition on the part of the individual. Absolutely 0.0 free will. 

Nah, that's just dragging in more mental conceptions.

We can't fully deconstruct the fantasies of "right vs wrong" by invoking more fantasies because now we're just nesting fantasizes.

Rather, we just directly realize that: "oh, I made up the difference. Haha."

[Merkabah]

@RendHeaven which part is fantasy? You and I being the non-doer?

[RendHeaven]

@Merkabah The idea of "individuals," the idea of "volition," the idea of "free will (not being the case)" - it seems like we're trying to hold these various ideas as a basis upon which to then hold the additional idea of "right vs wrong cannot be."

To be fair, maybe this is just being too picky lol - if you had to debunk morality in a socially credible way using consistency of language, I think your approach is fantastic. But language and ideas are fantasy.

It's worth noticing that there is an experiential/qualitative difference between actively unravelling/undoing your concept-constructions on a first-person basis without reference to any other conceptual crutches and ideating/fantasizing about nullifying your ideations/fantasies by cross-referencing ideas and fantasies.

The latter is what we're used to; the former can be described as though you fully acknowledge your role as that which spawns, maintains, and lives-through all things in one fell swoop.

Such a realization transcends language and ideas - so unsurprisingly, it's impossible to explain. But we try 

Edited July 30, 2021 by RendHeaven

[The0Self]

If you have a problem with porn and sex and masturbation, you’re probably suffering from various lack beliefs.

There isn’t really a “most awake person,” but if there were, Bentinho Massaro and likely dozens of others would be candidates on par with Leo, sorry ? lol.

[Merkabah]

@RendHeaven Thanks for your explanation. I will definitely reflect on your points.

[Inliytened1]

The bottom line is to completely embody Truth is to become it...which is to release the finite form and become Infinite.  Until then you can align yourself with it but you will never completely become it until you do.  Enlightenment is to become Infinite but then return to your current form again. Meaning you as God awaken from this dream but then fall back asleep.   The dream is still there.   When it's not, it won't be.

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, wildflower said:

Sure, but that isn't wisdom, or truth. The truth is sense pleasure is a net loss, it causes you suffer, makes you more selfish, less capable of love, furhter away from God.

Sense pleasure is love, manipulation & judgment are suffering. There’s no such thing as loss, nor a you which could be “made selfish” or less capable of love, or further away from God. These beliefs = the suffering. Leo is your apparition, your mirage, the great favor, shaking you up & out of your slumber. See if you can recognize the projections onto him are the expression of your suppressions. It is good. See & feel the depth of the kindness, the purity of the goodness. 

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The question isn't about how God would judge your ignorance of sense pleasure - to be clear

The recognition one is judging, believing the thoughts over or instead of feeling / alignment, claiming One are two, is the liberation. 

[wildflower]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, it's more profound than all that.

It's Love because the difference between killing a dog vs not is relativistic and imaginary.

Love is the realization that all difference is imaginary. And since all difference is imaginary, nothing can ever be wrong, because the notion of "wrong" is imaginary too!

There is literally no difference between right and wrong. That difference only exists from your biased, finite, relative POV. Which means it isn't absolutely true. Which means it's false. Which means it does not exist.

So... the difference between right and wrong simply does not exist. To realize that, is Love.

You only think it's wrong because you are selfish and biased. But God is selfless and has no bias. Therefore nothing is wrong for God. Therefore God is Love.

Contemplate this: Why do you assume cruelty is wrong? Who told you it's wrong?

Realize that it isn't wrong. That's just your bias. If you were honest and objective you would admit it's just your bias.

This isn't hard to understand though, the universe is just an amalgam of an infinite number of relative contexts. From the absolute level there is an absolute contexts that contains all others. Good/bad is just a relative contextualization compared against another, that doesn't hold at the absolute level. 

What I don't understand is when in your videos you say, being more selfless is Good, yet in this thread you posit that all actions are good, removing the need to become more selfless, including more selfish actions being equally Good as selfless actions.

Either we are trying to become more selfless which you insinuate in your videos, or we shouldn't as there is no possible distinction or improvement to become more Good. 

This also invalidates awakening too, as awakening is no more Good than being unconscious. So why not shut this whole site down?

Can you see how its hard to follow what you are saying?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, wildflower said:

What I don't understand is when in your videos you say, being more selfless is Good, yet in this thread you posit that all actions are good, removing the need to become more selfless, including more selfish actions being equally Good as selfless actions.

Being selfless cannot be a need, since need is a notion of the ego-self.

You become selfless not because you need to, but because you want Truth.

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Either we are trying to become more selfless which you insinuate in your videos, or we shouldn't as there is no possible distinction or improvement to become more Good. 

There are no shoulds. Do whatever the hell you want.

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This also invalidates awakening too, as awakening is no more Good than being unconscious.

Obviously awakening cannot be better than unawakening.

Never have I sad that awakening is good, better, or should be pursued. Awakening is far beyond such silly human notions.

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So why not shut this whole site down?

There is no reason. I could shut it down and the world would be no worse.

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Can you see how its hard to follow what you are saying?

It's hard for an ego to annihilate itself.

You want some sort of egoic gain from awakening but that obviously cannot happen since awakening is Truth and ego is falsehood.

The gain of awakening is not something the ego gets, it is freedom from seeking gain. Loss of self IS the gain!

[somegirl]

14 hours ago, wildflower said:

I genuinely don't hold judgement on anyone whos commited these atrociites

You certainly would if Leo hurt you directly or killed someone you hold dear, as an example. You wouldn't be so forgiving. 

Puppy killing might not be relevant to you or bother you that much because it's not related to you, but when it comes to yourself or someone you deeply care about, then it's a different story. 

[gettoefl]

23 minutes ago, somegirl said:

You certainly would if Leo hurt you directly or killed someone you hold dear, as an example. You wouldn't be so forgiving. 

Puppy killing might not be relevant to you or bother you that much because it's not related to you, but when it comes to yourself or someone you deeply care about, then it's a different story. 

the litmus test of forgiveness is not i forgive you

but i love you no matter what you did

and the real i love you means

i actively place you front and center as priority in my life

forgiveness is a damn high bar, it is the degree to which you include / exclude those around you

Edited July 30, 2021 by gettoefl

[wildflower]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Being selfless cannot be a need, since need is a notion of the ego-self.

You become selfless not because you need to, but because you want Truth.

There are no shoulds. Do whatever the hell you want.

Obviously awakening cannot be better than unawakening.

Never have I sad that awakening is good, better, or should be pursued. Awakening is far beyond such silly human notions.

There is no reason. I could shut it down and the world would be no worse.

It's hard for an ego to annihilate itself.

You want some sort of egoic gain from awakening but that obviously cannot happen since awakening is Truth and ego is falsehood.

The gain of awakening is not something the ego gets, it is freedom from seeking gain. Loss of self IS the gain!

Sure, but this is the hypocrisy I mentioned in the first part of this thread.

I actually disagree with you, being selfless produces an overall better set of states of consciousness. There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding between us. The self isnt some fixed entity, it's a continuum. Some actions behaviours and epistemic views lead to a more reified self, more selfishness, less truth, more suffering. Some do the exact opposite, they lead your conscious experiences to more selflessness, more truth, more connectedness, less suffering.

This is exactly what is happening, what I have outlined above is contained within your direct experience if your honest. For example doing cocaine everyday and arguing with everyone you interact with as your worn down and irritable is extremely selfish, and will cause huge amounts of negative states of consciousness for you (suffering). You can try it, become a cocaine addict, then become sober and tell me which one you prefer. There is a truth within this that aligns with the ultimate Truth, do you see the connection?

If you believed what you are saying, you wouldn't be creating youtube videos in the first place. There is a contradiction here.

In fact if you truly believed what you are saying, you would sit exactly where you are right now without doing anything at all until your death, as to do anything other than that would be falsehood or evilry, as to pursue anything other than what you are doing this second is to make a distinction that something else is better which is ultimately false? Do you see where this is going.

Either full awakening isn't possible from our finite self, then all of this is pointless, it is possible but shouldn't be pursued which makes this all pointless, or it is possible and should be pursued then what your saying doesn't make sense

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by wildflower

[knakoo]

11 hours ago, The0Self said:

If you have a problem with porn and sex and masturbation, you’re probably suffering from various lack beliefs.

There isn’t really a “most awake person,” but if there were, Bentinho Massaro and likely dozens of others would be candidates on par with Leo, sorry ? lol.

How can you seriously say that Leo could be the "most awake person"? Being awake refers to someone's baseline state of selfless consciousness. When you listen to Leo, you genially don't feel any sense of separate self ? 

[wildflower]

34 minutes ago, somegirl said:

You certainly would if Leo hurt you directly or killed someone you hold dear, as an example. You wouldn't be so forgiving. 

Puppy killing might not be relevant to you or bother you that much because it's not related to you, but when it comes to yourself or someone you deeply care about, then it's a different story. 

That's not true, it's all a matter of perspective and epistemic views, don't you see that? If you think Leo is an independant agent from you, independantly chosing to kill your family, then sure. But thats not True. 

You couldn't blame Leo, you could only blame the universe, or God, or you.

[The0Self]

15 minutes ago, knakoo said:

How can you seriously say that Leo could be the "most awake person"? Being awake refers to someone's baseline state of selfless consciousness. When you listen to Leo, you genially don't feel any sense of separate self ? 

I was literally saying Leo isn't special. You misunderstood my comment. But no, I honestly do not detect undue egoic tendencies in Leo. I can see why some would detect it -- those who had no idea what being awake was like.

[Thought Art]

We are humans, life is complex. Even your favourite spiritual Guru has things they would rather not be known by the public. 

Once you are here, you are locked in. The past is the past as long as we hold onto it.

This whole aspect of reality is still a mystery to me. why?

Edited July 30, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Sure, but this is the hypocrisy I mentioned in the first part of this thread.

I actually disagree with you, being selfless produces an overall better set of states of consciousness. There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding between us. The self isnt some fixed entity, it's a continuum. Some actions behaviours and epistemic views lead to a more reified self, more selfishness, less truth, more suffering. Some do the exact opposite, they lead your conscious experiences to more selflessness, more truth, more connectedness, less suffering.

This is exactly what is happening, what I have outlined above is contained within your direct experience if your honest. For example doing cocaine everyday and arguing with everyone you interact with as your worn down and irritable is extremely selfish, and will cause huge amounts of negative states of consciousness for you (suffering). You can try it, become a cocaine addict, then become sober and tell me which one you prefer. There is a truth within this that aligns with the ultimate Truth, do you see the connection?

I am pointing to a higher truth which recognizes that there is no difference between suffering and not-suffering.

You see, your judgment that suffering is worse than the selfless life is itself coming from a position of selfishness and bias.

If you were totally unbaised and selfless, you would not care about suffering.

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If you believed what you are saying, you wouldn't be creating youtube videos in the first place. There is a contradiction here.

In fact if you truly believed what you are saying, you would sit exactly where you are right now without doing anything at all until your death, as to do anything other than that would be falsehood or evilry, as to pursue anything other than what you are doing this second is to make a distinction that something else is better which is ultimately false? Do you see where this is going.

You are getting hung up on minutia.

You are trying to find a justification for spiritual work. And the truth is, there cannot ever be any justification for reality.

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Either full awakening isn't possible from our finite self, then all of this is pointless, it is possible but shouldn't be pursued which makes this all pointless, or it is possible and should be pursued then what your saying doesn't make sense

Everything is pointless. That's the point.

Awakening will in general reduce your suffering. But from the Absolute POV this makes no difference. From the relative POV is makes a difference to the ego-self.

If you're looking for reasons for awakening, you're misunderstand the profundity of awakening. It is beyond human reasons or justifications.

[knakoo]

14 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I was literally saying Leo isn't special. You misunderstood my comment. But no, I honestly do not detect undue egoic tendencies in Leo. I can see why some would detect it -- those who had no idea what being awake was like.

So you do feel some subtle egoic tendencies no ? When I watch or listen to some people I do not feel any egoic tendencies, just grace.

[wildflower]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am pointing to a higher truth which recognizes that there is no difference between suffering and not-suffering.

You see, your judgment that suffering is worse than the selfless life is itself coming from a position of selfishness and bias.

If you were totally unbaised and selfless, you would not care about suffering.

You are getting hung up on minutia.

You are trying to find a justification for spiritual work. And the truth is, there cannot ever be any justification for reality.

Everything is pointless. That's the point.

Awakening will in general reduce your suffering. But from the Absolute POV this makes no difference. From the relative POV is makes a difference to the ego-self.

If you're looking for reasons for awakening, you're misunderstand the profundity of awakening. It is beyond human reasons or justifications.

It just doesn't make sense, nor do you follow any of what your saying yourself, which means you don't truly believe it. 

What I'm saying is this: in the fabric of reality must be breadcrumbs or truths that guide the universe to awakening. In your reductive equalization of all conscious experience, awakening couldn't even be possible, there is no mechanism to which to awake

Your not being honest with yourself. Why did you create Actualized.org, why did you pursue awakenings, why do you still have and run Actualized.org, why did you do 30 DMT trips, why do you talk about truth at all. If you truly believed it was pointless, there woudn't be a mechanism for you to do any of the above, you don't actually believe its pointless, by definition of you doing it at all, do you see?

Update: I just seen the end of your God forgives devilry video, I hadn't watched the ending, where you literally address this topic itself. So fair play 

Edited July 30, 2021 by wildflower

[knakoo]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you were totally unbaised and selfless, you would not care about suffering.

Awakening will in general reduce your suffering. But from the Absolute POV this makes no difference. From the relative POV is makes a difference to the ego-self.

But can you be totally selfless and still suffer ?