Leo and his behaviors and actions

[wildflower]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Three points about that you should contemplate and grasp:

1) It is actually impossible for any finite form to embody the Infinite. So what you expect is actually prohibited at the metaphysical level.

2) What you understanding about realize will far exceed your ability to embody. And this is not a bug but a feature.

3) Your need and attachment to embodiment is itself an ego attachment. If you have no ego, you would not give a fuck about embodiment of anything. You would just flow along with life.

Gotcha and agreed. 

1) Is the convergence here for not for one of us (which is simultaneously all of us), not to realize and embody this to the point it leads to a singularity and end of the duality?

2) See above, as in doesn't this road lead to a singularity or awakening as described in your 30 days of consciousness video

3) But embodiment really just means living in line with the truth, essentially, isn't that what all this is about in the first place? 

 

Addendum: when I use the word embodiment I mean the removal of hypocrisy, nothing more

Also, Im not in anyway shape or form judging or demonizing jerking off or watching porn in any capacity. But just opening a conversation to the fact it's ultimately causing suffering for all involved, so when you understand and accept it, why do it? I want to be super clear: I don't care if you jerk off or not it doesnt alter my perception of you, just having a conversation

Or let me put it this way: if you stop doing it, your life should improve, as your becoming less selfish, and closer to realizing love and God

Edited July 29, 2021 by wildflower

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Gotcha and agreed. 

1) Is the convergence here for not for one of us (which is simultaneously all of us), not to realize and embody this to the point it leads to a singularity and end of the duality?

2) See above, as in doesn't this road lead to a singularity or awakening as described in your 30 days of consciousness video

3) But embodiment really just means living in line with the truth, essentially, isn't that what all this is about in the first place?

But what you don't fathom yet is that Truth is infinite, and therefore it can be any which way.

If you murder a puppy, that is Truth, and so there is no problem from the Absolute POV. The problem only exists in your finite mind.

Truth does not mean that you act like a saint all the time. That's not Truth, that's an egoic fantasy that obscures the radical nature of Truth: which includes warts and all, not just the rainbows and butterflies.

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Addendum: when I use the word embodiment I mean the removal of hypocrisy, nothing more

But hypocrisy is part of reality and therefore Truth.

Why are you trying to resist hypocrisy? Can you see how you've made a shadow of it?

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Also, Im not in anyway shape or form judging or demonizing jerking off or watching porn in any capacity. But just opening a conversation to the fact it's ultimately causing suffering for all involved, so when you understand and accept it, why do it? I want to be super clear: I don't care if you jerk off or not it doesnt alter my perception of you, just having a conversation

1) Why do you assume it causes suffering?

2) By your logic, all of life is suffering for all involved.

The desire to avoid suffering is itself problematic and selfish.

If God really cared to avoid all suffering, God would not have created any living entities.

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Or let me put it this way: if you stop doing it, your life should improve, as your becoming less selfish, and closer to realizing love and God

Your ideas are way too simplistic.

Have you ever considered that if you truly loved yourself you would jerk off without guilt or suffering and life would be just dandy?

Maybe try it sometime.

[wildflower]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But what you don't fathom yet is that Truth is infinite, and therefore it can be any which way.

If you murder a puppy, that is Truth, and so there is no problem from the Absolute POV. The problem only exists in your finite mind.

Truth does not mean that you act like a saint all the time. That's not Truth, that's an egoic fantasy that obscure the radical nature of Truth: which includes warts and all, not just the rainbows and butterflies.

But hypocrisy is part of reality and therefore Truth.

Why are trying to resist hypocrisy? Can you see how you've made a shadow of it?

1) Why do you assume it causes suffering?

2) By your logic, all of life is suffering for all involved.

The desire to avoid suffering is itself problematic and selfish.

Your ideas are way too simplistic.

Have you ever considered that if you truly loved yourself you would jerk off without guilt or suffering and life would be just dandy?

Maybe try it sometime.

Okay no problem, can I ask you, should one try to become more loving and selfless in life? Or is this trying to become more loving and selfless an egoic act that is problematic? 

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Okay no problem, can I ask you, should one try to become more loving and selfless in life? Or is this trying to become more loving and selfless an egoic act that is problematic? 

It's very tricky because it's the ego that is trying. And the ego is evil. So when the ego tries to be good, selfless, and loving, it ends up creating much evil.

The best way to become more selfless and loving is to awaken to Truth and realize the ego is false. Then selflessness and love happen automatically, and without that, selflessness and love are nearly impossible.

The effort you want to put into being good would be better placed in realizing the ego is a fiction.

Being Good is not something you do. It's what you realize reality has always once the ego is annihilated.

Badness is not in the world or in the actions of humans. Badness IS literally your sense of finite self.

[wildflower]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very tricky because it's the ego that is trying. And the ego is evil. So when the ego tries to be good, selfless, and loving, it ends up creating much evil.

The best way to become more selfless and loving is to awaken to Truth and realize the ego is false. Then selflessness and love happen automatically, and without that, selflessness and love are nearly impossible.

The effort you want to put into being good would be better placed in realizing the ego is a fiction.

Can you give me context for the first part please, if I sit down close my eyes and wish that Leo is loved, happy, safe and peaceful - this is creating much evil?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Can you give me context for the first part please, if I sit down close my eyes and wish that Leo is loved, happy, safe and peaceful - this is creating much evil?

You can do that, and it's mostly okay.

But if one day you learn that Leo murders puppies for fun, you will get all butt-hurt and judgmental that Leo did not live up to your prayers. And this is YOU creating evil, not Leo. See, you are very judgmental. And judgment is a form of evil.

If you want a pray properly, pray something like this: "Dear God, let me see all the evil in the world as Good and not need it to be any other way than exactly how it is."

But this is impossible to do unless you have no self.

[wildflower]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

You can do that, and it's mostly okay.

But if one day you learn that Leo murders puppies for fun, you will get all butt-hurt and judgmental that Leo did not live up to your prayers. And this is YOU creating evil, not Leo.

No, I will still wish Leo is loved, happy, safe and peaceful , 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, wildflower said:

No, I will still wish Leo is loved, happy, safe and peaceful , 

Haha, that's a cute story you tell yourself.

[wildflower]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha, that's a cute story you tell yourself.

Why is that not true, I can sit down and wish this for anyone in the world whos alive whos commited what we are classing as an atrocity

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Why is that not true, I can sit down and wish this for anyone in the world whos alive whos commited what we are classing as an atrocity

Your capacity for Love is directly proportional to your degree of consciousness. This is not something you can fake with wishful thinking.

[Juliano Zn]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But what you don't fathom yet is that Truth is infinite, and therefore it can be any which way.

If you murder a puppy, that is Truth, and so there is no problem from the Absolute POV. The problem only exists in your finite mind.

Truth does not mean that you act like a saint all the time. That's not Truth, that's an egoic fantasy that obscures the radical nature of Truth: which includes warts and all, not just the rainbows and butterflies.

 

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But if one day you learn that Leo murders puppies for fun, you will get all butt-hurt and judgmental that Leo did not live up to your prayers. And this is YOU creating evil, not Leo. See, you are very judgmental. And judgment is a form of evil.

If you want a pray properly, pray something like this: "Dear God, let me see all the evil in the world as Good and not need it to be any other way than exactly how it is."

@Leo Gura Do you mean that since there is only one consciousness, "other people" doing what I see as evil shit is just one thing? Like a screen is one thing not the different words and shapes and colors. So if they do evil shit or good shit there's no difference because it's one thing and I am projecting evil onto them? So I am creating evil by thinking evil

[Ilan]

17 minutes ago, wildflower said:

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can do that, and it's mostly okay.

But if one day you learn that Leo murders puppies for fun, you will get all butt-hurt and judgmental that Leo did not live up to your prayers. And this is YOU creating evil, not Leo. See, you are very judgmental. And judgment is a form of evil.

If you want a pray properly, pray something like this: "Dear God, let me see all the evil in the world as Good and not need it to be any other way than exactly how it is."

But this is impossible to do unless you have no self.

I get it, so a good exercise to realize God’s love would be to incarnate as someone who gets completely abused by another one, have his whole life ruined by it, go through hell because of it and do not be judgemental about it ? Maybe that’s what the most enlightened masters have done in past life ? Maybe that’s why they are so loving ? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Juliano Zn said:

 

@Leo Gura Do you mean that since there is only one consciousness, "other people" doing what I see as evil shit is just one thing? Like a screen is one thing not the different words and shapes and colors. So if they do evil shit or good shit there's no difference because it's one thing and I am projecting evil onto them? So I am creating evil by thinking evil

There is no such thing as evil. Period. The only thing that can exist is Absolute Good. Everything that exists is Absolute Good. And if you think otherwise, that's ego.

[wildflower]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your capacity for Love is directly proportional to your degree of consciousness. This is not something you can fake with wishful thinking.

Agreed, but that in and of itself doesn't inhibit me from forgiving any one atrocity does it, just means I'm conscious enough to realize the truth that the 'person' who committed the atrocity couldn't have been any other way, there's no one to forgive, and any blame could that could even exist it would lie on the universe itself

[Leo Gura]

@wildflower Nothing prevents you but yourself.

[wildflower]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@wildflower Nothing prevents you but yourself.

Nothing is preventing me though, I genuinely don't hold judgement on anyone whos commited these atrociites

[Juliano Zn]

@Leo Gura I need to clarify this. Let's say I see Leo killing a dog simply because he enjoys the act of killing. Ego will judge and demonize it.

That's where I can't understand. How is the cruelty love? Is it love because the person doing it loves to kill? Is it because this event could not not happen because of an infinite chain of events and because it will create infinite more ramifications of events that I can't see far enough to understand?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, wildflower said:

Okay no problem, can I ask you, should one try to become more loving and selfless in life? Or is this trying to become more loving and selfless an egoic act that is problematic? 

Of course it's egoic, like christian. Try be loving or selfless? More egoic is difficult. Try is egoic, try to be rich is egoic, but try to be loving is double egoic, like you d gain any spiritual gainings doing that.  You take many things for granted, such as knowing how all romantic relationships are, where the good and the bad are, a lot should be, a lot to forgive atrocities. Maybe you are committing them when you step on the grass. it is true that sex often has a lot of ego. like almost everything, like eating, for example. I respect celibacy but here is all that natural desire. for what? to withstand it as a test or something? it is a complicated, difficult or impossible matter that there is an answer for everyone. Better to be open and don't be sure of anything in that matter

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Juliano Zn said:

@Leo Gura I need to clarify this. Let's say I see Leo killing a dog simply because he enjoys the act of killing. Ego will judge and demonize it.

That's where I can't understand. How is the cruelty love? Is it love because the person doing it loves to kill? Is it because this event could not not happen because of an infinite chain of events and because it will create infinite more ramifications of events that I can't see far enough to understand?

No, it's more profound than all that.

It's Love because the difference between killing a dog vs not is relativistic and imaginary.

Love is the realization that all difference is imaginary. And since all difference is imaginary, nothing can ever be wrong, because the notion of "wrong" is imaginary too!

There is literally no difference between right and wrong. That difference only exists from your biased, finite, relative POV. Which means it isn't absolutely true. Which means it's false. Which means it does not exist.

So... the difference between right and wrong simply does not exist. To realize that, is Love.

You only think it's wrong because you are selfish and biased. But God is selfless and has no bias. Therefore nothing is wrong for God. Therefore God is Love.

Contemplate this: Why do you assume cruelty is wrong? Who told you it's wrong?

Realize that it isn't wrong. That's just your bias. If you were honest and objective you would admit it's just your bias.

[Merkabah]

Taking on the notion of "right vs wrong" from a different angle: There cannot ever be bad people and good people or "good deeds" and "bad deeds" per se. Rather, It just IS....... ...... Why?Because there is ZERO volition on the part of the individual. Absolutely 0.0 free will. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Merkabah