My thoughts on psychedelics

[ivankiss]

No one asked for it, but there you go...

I've seen Leo using these two quotes before:

'Psychedelics do not work on stupid people'

And

'Be wary of unearned wisdom'.

I cannot really argue with either one of those. But, as usual, I'll add my little twist and special flavour to things.

Basically; I'd tie psychedelics directly to one's baseline level of consciousness. And for any hardcore nondualists patrolling the forum; I know there are, ultimately, no levels of consciousness. No baseline. But bear with me here, please. I'm kinda making a point.

Here's what I'm suggesting;

Someone who operates on a lower level of consciousness will never, ever have the same experiences, insights and realizations as someone who's baseline is already very high. No matter how much psychedelics you swallow, snort or shoot up your ass.

I've witnessed people taking ridiculous amounts of shrooms, lsd, etc, and I can guarantee you none of them has truly realized God, or had any truly meaningful insight on the structure of reality, existence, beingness, Love, etc.

Most people have no idea what's going on while they're on psychedelics. They're not nearly conscious enough. They spiral in and out of consciousness, maybe having a glimpse or two - at best. And even then it's all way too distorted. Not to mention when the experience is over - and they're back on their baseline... There is no way they brought back anything. And even if they did; they would not have what it takes to implement and/or integrate what they realized. Hence there is no actual realization. Only fantasy.

I did not have 10 000 trips, or anything ridiculous like that. I did not take huge, heroic doses. Except this one time, when I overdosed and died lol.

But... my baseline is already so high, that I could take the tiniest portion and shoot off into the cosmos instantaneously. I'm confident enough to say; that I can reach 'hights' through simple, joyful breathing techniques, that many could not reach on high doses of psychedelics. Because; baseline.

There simply are not all that many layers to peel off. I am only a few steps away from The Light - to put it that way. All it takes; is a little push. 

I smoke weed nowdays, and what I can achieve with it is beyond epic. 

It's all about the relationship with the substance - I'd say. I speak to my weed often. I apologize to it, if I feel like I'm abusing the gifts it has to offer. I tell it I'm doing my best and I ask for it's patience and understanding.

I think it's crucial to speak to the substance once it's in your system. Ask it to be gentle with you. To show you only the things you are capable of handling at that moment. 

So those are my thoughts. Not everyone who takes a big enough dose will realize God, or you know, whatever. And some do not need psychedelics to get there, at all.

 

[AdamR95]

@ivankiss i agree with this, i have met many people who use psychedelics regularly but they have no idea about god or nonduality. And for me, i was very obsesed with philosophy from young age and my mind automaticaly contemplate reality almost nonstop. Now i can reach some levels of god conciousness just by meditating while walking down the street, but when i think about it my mind have spent ridiculous amount of hours of contemplating to get to this point but for most people this is not the case.

Edited July 27, 2021 by AdamR95

[Carl-Richard]

Psychedelics are keys to consciousness expansion, but the keys have to fit in the keyhole.

[Carl-Richard]

41 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

It's all about the relationship with the substance - I'd say. I speak to my weed often. I apologize to it, if I feel like I'm abusing the gifts it has to offer. I tell it I'm doing my best and I ask for it's patience and understanding.

If weed isn't blasting you off into hyperspace, I suggest you lay off it for a while

[ivankiss]

@AdamR95 Awesome.

I'd add; it's not only about how many hours you spent contemplating the nature of reality... but also how in alignment with your true purpose you lived. How heart-centered you were. How loving, caring, sensitive, etc.

@Carl-Richard Haha good call. I might take a break soon. Right now though; it's relevant.

I'm more creative and also; sex is otherworldly 

[Flowerfaeiry]

@ivankiss I think you're being a bit too harsh. Even small glimpses are important and many people take those nuggets with them forever. 

[Batman]

Well, some people don't want to question their assumptions regarding the human experience, or feel that they are limited in doing so or that science will provide all the answer. So they have the experience and usually go on with their life, even if they experienced Oness or Ego Dissolution. Most of them will probably dismiss it as hallucination because that is the prevailing stigma in human culture. 

But yes, I totally agree that the more a person is in self-contraction, or self-deluded, or is clinging to lots of beliefs (which are activities of mind), than his "baseline" Consciousness is lower and he is less open for new Consciousness, definitely. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Batman

[ivankiss]

I don't see how I'm being harsh here. It's not like I'm telling anyone they're doing anything wrong or that they suck. I'm speaking in general here, and about the majority of people, not everyone.

Psychedelics are simply not a shortcut to enlightenment. And they are not for all people. Sorry if I ruined the party for some of you.

Then again; these are just my thoughts. Not absolute truths, or anything.

[allislove]

My thoughts... my thoughts... who are you?  

[ivankiss]

@allislove I am the thing that should not be.

The impossible 

[allislove]

16 hours ago, ivankiss said:

No one asked for it, but there you go...

I've seen Leo using these two quotes before:

'Psychedelics do not work on stupid people'

And

'Be wary of unearned wisdom'.

I cannot really argue with either one of those. But, as usual, I'll add my little twist and special flavour to things.

Basically; I'd tie psychedelics directly to one's baseline level of consciousness. And for any hardcore nondualists patrolling the forum; I know there are, ultimately, no levels of consciousness. No baseline. But bear with me here, please. I'm kinda making a point.

Here's what I'm suggesting;

Someone who operates on a lower level of consciousness will never, ever have the same experiences, insights and realizations as someone who's baseline is already very high. No matter how much psychedelics you swallow, snort or shoot up your ass.

I've witnessed people taking ridiculous amounts of shrooms, lsd, etc, and I can guarantee you none of them has truly realized God, or had any truly meaningful insight on the structure of reality, existence, beingness, Love, etc.

Most people have no idea what's going on while they're on psychedelics. They're not nearly conscious enough. They spiral in and out of consciousness, maybe having a glimpse or two - at best. And even then it's all way too distorted. Not to mention when the experience is over - and they're back on their baseline... There is no way they brought back anything. And even if they did; they would not have what it takes to implement and/or integrate what they realized. Hence there is no actual realization. Only fantasy.

I did not have 10 000 trips, or anything ridiculous like that. I did not take huge, heroic doses. Except this one time, when I overdosed and died lol.

But... my baseline is already so high, that I could take the tiniest portion and shoot off into the cosmos instantaneously. I'm confident enough to say; that I can reach 'hights' through simple, joyful breathing techniques, that many could not reach on high doses of psychedelics. Because; baseline.

There simply are not all that many layers to peel off. I am only a few steps away from The Light - to put it that way. All it takes; is a little push. 

I smoke weed nowdays, and what I can achieve with it is beyond epic. 

It's all about the relationship with the substance - I'd say. I speak to my weed often. I apologize to it, if I feel like I'm abusing the gifts it has to offer. I tell it I'm doing my best and I ask for it's patience and understanding.

I think it's crucial to speak to the substance once it's in your system. Ask it to be gentle with you. To show you only the things you are capable of handling at that moment. 

So those are my thoughts. Not everyone who takes a big enough dose will realize God, or you know, whatever. And some do not need psychedelics to get there, at all.

This whole game is about identification, not the states/levels/baseline. Just investigate the direct experience... for example, there are 2 people in the direct experience... can you find the grain line of separation between their levels of consciousness? It is non-sense. But you can identify yourself with the body (with thinking) or just be. Daily meditation for seeing a self-referential thinking clearly. ??

[BipolarGrowth]

I think high dose trips should come first then you use THC to work on bringing your baseline up to that. Lots of serious contemplation on THC can raise baseline like crazy. I can have more intense and insightful experiences from a couple hits on a THC vape pen now compared to taking 10 tabs of LSD or 6 grams of shrooms a couple years ago. Most of the time, I can reach slightly lower levels which would still be remarkable to most psychedelic users or spiritual seekers without any THC. Things are so more fluid on THC that it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to practice without it though unless my goal is to have a more controlled human experience. 

[ivankiss]

@allislove I'm sorry officer, but I'll have to disagree 

[allislove]

6 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@allislove I'm sorry officer, but I'll have to disagree 

That's okay  

[Grateful Dead]

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Someone who operates on a lower level of consciousness will never, ever have the same experiences, insights and realizations as someone who's baseline is already very high. No matter how much psychedelics you swallow, snort or shoot up your ass.

I've witnessed people taking ridiculous amounts of shrooms, lsd, etc, and I can guarantee you none of them has truly realized God, or had any truly meaningful insight on the structure of reality, existence, beingness, Love, etc.

It wouldn't help them to have this realizations, psychedelics work at the level you are at. So they're still very useful to low-conscious people if you guide them a little, at least in my experience.

I think everyone can know God, especially with psychedelics. But many don't want to at the moment.

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

I think it's crucial to speak to the substance once it's in your system. Ask it to be gentle with you. To show you only the things you are capable of handling at that moment. 

Yes, that's exactly how you should do it. Psychedelics can be a kind of life companion that will keep you on the right track.

IMO, if there was a little education about psychedelics, everything would change radically.

[ivankiss]

@acidgoofy True. I'm not saying psychedelics cannot be beneficial for many people, and that they cannot extract value from the experience. Not at all.

I'm just saying that's not to be confused with full-on God-realization. Because, many do have that attitude, after tripping once or twice on higher doses.

[Nahm]

18 hours ago, ivankiss said:

There simply are not all that many layers to peel off.

That really is the key. The letting the layers / beliefs / stories go, even the ones about nondualists & materialism. 

[ivankiss]

@Nahm True. But once you do let go of those, you are not forced to scratch those words from your vocabulary. You can still use those pointers, to make a point.

Or a joker 

[Grateful Dead]

25 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

True. I'm not saying psychedelics cannot be beneficial for many people, and that they cannot extract value from the experience. Not at all.

I only mentioned it because I disagree with that quote: 'Psychedelics don't work on stupid people'. I think Terence McKenna originally said it.

26 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

I'm just saying that's not to be confused with full-on God-realization. Because, many do have that attitude, after tripping once or twice on higher doses.

Yeah, that's like after your first time thinking you are a sex god

[Nahm]

@ivankiss

Not sure how being forced relates… but the mind can not serve two masters, experience is whole.