Science Finds God

[Schulzy]

@Leo Gura Good point but it would also depend on how we define 'You' or 'Me'.
By the way i was on a livestream with the Athene guy that has made the video and i have told him your look on things and he said he wouldn't mind talking with you through Skype on stream.
He usually peaks 1000 viewers when streaming.

[actualized1]

I am a sorta "follower" of athene. I recommend you all to check his story and charity and scientific projects he's been working on (very inspiring) and

he's written a small book also.

I too was curious about the relation betwen his work and personal development but I, as Leo said in his reply to this post, think that it's still science, it's still the map of the territory, it's still knowing/understanding of being and not actually being, it's still ego illusion no matter how accurate.

personal development is not to be approached with the scientific mindset because science is understanding, mapping, calculating not being. on the other hand, science is not to be approached with a being approach. a yogi can't get you the math to get to the moon, he will tell you that he is the moon lol.

this Leo's video explains my point

 

[Extreme Z7]

@actualized1 Despite all these talk about not relying too much on science. I think it's still important to point out that none of us are against science, we are only against scientism.

At least, I sure hope that's the case with all of us here.

[Schulzy]

Well ofcourse its not good to be fanatic about anything. Don't think the video is on scientism side. 
 

[actualized1]

science is good, no doubt about that but the problem comes in when people forget what scientific thinking is or take it for something else, as Leo points out in his video and that is taking it as a lense through which one sees and understands life. that's not playing by what our nature is, by what a human is. science is done with thought and we all know what thought is. we use scientific thinking to bring things around us to our understanding but reality doesn't work by the "thought system", this is the reason science doesn't have a theory of everything yet and even if it will someday, that will still be a "map of the territory".

 

[Augustus]

On ٢٤‏/١١‏/٢٠١٦ at 10:23 PM, Schulzy said:

Yesterday night i have watched this documentary because it has kinda clickbaity title and i was just curious what its about.

 

I can't believe nobody else has talked about this before, because all the big scientists like Einstein,Tesla,Sagan had this mindset, but this documentary has completely shifted my world view. I feel like i have the power to solve all the problems. Its like DMT 24/7 with dopamine rush! ::D

Note: The video itself didn't make this change but me afterwards being curious and going to the website in description which then led me to Wikipedia page that explains the whole process in detail. Its just crazy how your life can turn around in 30 minutes

I don't know if this is going to help everyone with their self actualization/enlightenment journey but it i think its  at least worth a watch. It has helped me inspect myself deep down and find what was controlling me my whole life and i think thats the essence of enlightenment.

I watched the video and I read the website in the description of the video I found it interesting.
I am trying to follow the steps but I am stuck at step 2, I can’t find my core value and the video says the core value could be comfort and I don’t understand how someone can see comfort as a core value.
If you pass step2 please tell me how and how much time this should take? Days or hours…
Thank you.   
 

[Schulzy]

@actualized1 Im talking about objective reality. Mostly everything even moral decisions can be answered by science. 
@Augustus thinking about the past and seeing reason for your actions can help alot. Why didn't you sometimes do the most logical thing, what was stopping you? 

[Extreme Z7]

53 minutes ago, Schulzy said:

@actualized1 Im talking about objective reality. Mostly everything even moral decisions can be answered by science.

I don't know. . . the conclusions made from science still tends to be tainted by subjective judgements. Also, it's very good at predicting cause-and-effect phenomena but it's still limited from understanding why reality works the way it does which is as objective as you can get when pondering existence.

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Extreme Z7

[Schulzy]

Everything is subjective because everything comes from your own frame of reference (if you want to get really philosophical)

The video explains:
intersubjectivity (money,nations,institutions) is not objective reality which applies on us weather we like it or not (gravity, eating to survive, sleeping). 

Our ability to understand objective reality started scientific revolution and gave us the ability not to die at birth anymore or from Malaria, polio, rinderpest, smallpox and other diseases and to live til the age of 80+ (still increasing)  and use internet to post on these forums.

So Leo did say control is an illusion but i would rather live in an illusion where i live long enough not to see my family members die from easily prevented diseases.
And i would really suggest everyone to watch the video.

[Elisabeth]

2 hours ago, Schulzy said:

Im talking about objective reality. Mostly everything even moral decisions can be answered by science. 

What kind of moral do you consider scientific? You can build an ethical structure from little axioms, but what are the assumptions you're making? Hardly objective reality...

[Schulzy]

Any morally tough decision can be solved with science. Give me any example and i will solve it.

[Elisabeth]

@Schulzy Ok, random example. You learn by a coincidence that a friend of yours is cheating. Do you tell his wife?

I'm not so interested in the result, but the process of your thoughts. I'm pretty convinced there will be a subjective judgement involved somewhere. 

[Schulzy]

In situation like this one you have to take alot more into the equation. Since i don't have enough information i will make assumptions myself.
Do they have children? How would wife leaving my friend impact the lives of those children? Are there any other side effects of wife leaving him?
The best thing for me to do then is talk with my friend and try to resolve this issue peacefully by explaining him why he is doing what he is doing (i can very easily get to the core emotion that is driving him to act this way)   - this is because of my recent interest in neuroscience, also i believe everyone that goes through this process will  also have crazy desire to learn about his brain and what he is.

 

 

[Elisabeth]

44 minutes ago, Schulzy said:

(i can very easily get to the core emotion that is driving him to act this way)

Well if you can indeed, that is pretty amazing (and creepy).

Never mind my disbelief, good luck. 

[pluto]

As the wise monk said...Relax, Nothing is in control

 

[Yonkey]

@Leo Gura It would be extremely enlightening if you had a discussion with Athene – the creator of this documentary – as @actualized1 suggested. I think that would help me understand if logic indeed just is a quick fix of the ego, or something more.

[Schulzy]

11 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

Well if you can indeed, that is pretty amazing (and creepy).

Never mind my disbelief, good luck. 

Well its not so hard actually and you could probably do it in a day if you go through the logic wiki. 
Im completely different person now.

@Yonkey Yes i agree with you, Leo should definitely talk with Athene.

[Martin123]

@Schulzy Idea.
Let's say that this process changes your core value/emotion.
This would naturally happen in the process of "spiritual purification" right?
Now the difference would be, that spiritual purification would work in a much more holistic way. It would get rid of all the little neuroses and emotional baggage, and slowly it would dig its way into the core value.
With the "click", you skip the "letting go of the baggage" part, and change the core value, without releasing the rest.
So yes, that can be super nice, on the other hand, "less than" the purification process.

[Schulzy]

Not sure, there are testimonies of people that 'clicked' but nobody used spiritual purification.  If you make it then cool.

But the 4 step process is more aligned with science than with spirituality.

[Martin123]

@Schulzy Why would you necessarily create a separation between those 2. 
Spiritual purification is just an expression. You can call it "purging of emotions", "letting go of trauma", "mindfulness therapy", yada yada yada. 
I don't see how the purification is in conflict with science.