Science Finds God

[Schulzy]

Yesterday night i have watched this documentary because it has kinda clickbaity title and i was just curious what its about.

 

I can't believe nobody else has talked about this before, because all the big scientists like Einstein,Tesla,Sagan had this mindset, but this documentary has completely shifted my world view. I feel like i have the power to solve all the problems. Its like DMT 24/7 with dopamine rush! ::D

Note: The video itself didn't make this change but me afterwards being curious and going to the website in description which then led me to Wikipedia page that explains the whole process in detail. Its just crazy how your life can turn around in 30 minutes

I don't know if this is going to help everyone with their self actualization/enlightenment journey but it i think its  at least worth a watch. It has helped me inspect myself deep down and find what was controlling me my whole life and i think thats the essence of enlightenment.

[Yonkey]

I saw the documentary and to be honest I'm not sure about it. Although it definitely sounds interesting. But I guess that we who are on the path of self-actualisation should keep an open-mind and thoroughly try things out before saying that they don't work. I will watch it again tomorrow and then look into the steps that are explained a bit more.

Make sure to update us if you maintain this '24/7 DMT dopamine rush' in a few days.

[Lisaya]

i saw it yesterday, too and checked the site and i think its very interesting. i didn't know Einstein also believed in this.
i will for sure try it out at least and see if i get that dopamine rush as well. that all those scientists had a spiritual side and a believe where you submit to scientific patterns (or logic how its called in the docu) intrigues me quite a bit to be honest

[nolenjoney]

A skull as thumbnail and that title? I mean, let's be serious. It clearly seems some shady clickbait wannabe video about religion fanatics or whatever. If science would have found God, everyone would know at this point, and it wouldn't be on a random youtube video.

[Schulzy]

I am just saying it has helped me alot with figuring out my life purpose. I am not saying it will help everyone. Its this simple question that has actually really made the click in my mind and thats "What has been driving you in life" When i think about it, it is pretty obvious what it is. I suddenly realize why i did everything in the past. If there is a definition of enlightenment then i would say this is it for me. Because now i can also look at other people and think  about "What is driving them in life" Most of the time people just want to show off and prove themselves. Having logic as core value not many people have and its the happiest feeling ever once you have it. I am so much more clear headed.

Yonkey i feel alot happier than before because i know what i want to do in my life now.

[Elisabeth]

I saw it a few minutes ago and I'm quite puzzled. I mean, even if I buy into the premise that there is only one core value, why logic? Or rather, what do they mean by logic? Logic itself, to me, is a means, not a value. It is a tool for clasification, exploring consequences, and decision making.

But maybe, what they really mean, is understanding. I'm a scientist, I can appreciate that. But understanding is not a driving force of a whole personality, although hey, yes, following curiosity certainly feels good. Logic is not a driving force of society.

Or maybe, this disociation thing is a similar effect as some psychedelics Leo talks about which allow you to get a glimps of the bigger picture. And they provide you an explanation which fits with their rational mind in advance. 

If they said "we'll help you align with your wish to contribute to society/happyness of people", I'd be more interested. But maybe that's the unspoken end behind using the means of logic. 

They probably did some amaizing work, but I am puzzled by the "explanation". Maybe I'll understand better if I do read up. 

[Leo Gura]

Modern folks tend to re-invent the wheel a lot in ignorance when it comes to psychology or spirituality. It's ironic because psychology and spirituality have been fully understood by humans since over 5000 years ago. It's very simple and it's virtually unanimous.

The core problem is simple: ego

The core solution is also simple: realize that ego is an illusion

God is what remains when ego is realized to be an illusion.

There cannot be true freedom until this is realized. God is not a set of patterns or universal laws. God is not logic. God is indiscriminate and unbounded, whereas patterns and laws and logic are limitations, facets of Absolute Infinity.

This technique they share may be helpful on a practical level, but remember, there are much deeper and more profound things to discover.

If we're gonna boil down reality to one thing, it should be CONSCIOUSNESS, not logic.

What this video is doing is sorta making a weak version of spirituality palatable to rational-minded people who normally dismiss spirituality and religion because of its packaging. But actually these people do not understand the deep core of all religious and mystical traditions and how practical and therapeutic it is. Modern culture needs things packaged in "logic" in order for people to swallow it. Which is actually a big part of the problem because logic is a tool of the ego.

The problem with trying to rationalize nonduality/reality is that it will always ultimately fail, because rationalization is conceptual in nature, and reality is beyond concepts.

What would really help people watching this video is to let go of their need for logic, concepts, thinking, rationality, science, and evolution. Now that would be a really counter-intuitive move, and lead to an amazing transformation!

[amir1993]

21 hours ago, Schulzy said:

Yesterday night i have watched this documentary because it has kinda clickbaity title and i was just curious what its about.

 

I can't believe nobody else has talked about this before, because all the big scientists like Einstein,Tesla,Sagan had this mindset, but this documentary has completely shifted my world view. I feel like i have the power to solve all the problems. Its like DMT 24/7 with dopamine rush! ::D

Note: The video itself didn't make this change but me afterwards being curious and going to the website in description which then led me to Wikipedia page that explains the whole process in detail. Its just crazy how your life can turn around in 30 minutes

I don't know if this is going to help everyone with their self actualization/enlightenment journey but it i think its  at least worth a watch. It has helped me inspect myself deep down and find what was controlling me my whole life and i think thats the essence of enlightenment.

Well this is really concrete way how to do good meditation and experience actualization. Really useful Documentary.
I didn't follow the steps, but I did something familiar, and my "core value" become helping another people to feel what I feel, and that is peace.
So do you think that everybody should have logic as core value?

[nolenjoney]

I totally agree with Leo!! 

Reality boils down to consciousness and not logic. Science will NEVER be able to study consciousness because the spirit is not logical, that's why science only spreads autism and other problems like for example with vaccines that should not be given to children. Don't get me wrong, science is important, but the core of the mind is simply off-limits  and should not forced into a logical cage, it CANNOT be logically understood.

And if we truly understand this and, as Leo says, we realize that logic is a tool of the ego, it is a big part of the problem and the reason why for example Trump even gets elected, we can focus only on consciousness and improve our life a lot.

Logic is COLD. You can build a rocket with it and fly to the moon but you can't solve humanity's suffering with it, those are issues of the soul. At least that's what I got from Leo's "Why rationality is wrong" video.

[Yonkey]

I actually read up about this and followed the four steps. The transformation I experienced is surreal, I think it's really like a spiritual transformation. For example, I used to have confidence and self-esteem issues, and now they're just all gone because I know they are not logical and since logic is my core value I just let go of them immediately. I also feel super clear-headed, present in the moment, and have total peace of mind all day long since I followed these steps earlier this day. Ego has vanished completely, I have no sense of identity any longer, I just am. 

However, I'm still a bit skeptical because maybe this is just a placebo and I will stop being in this state of absolute peace and joy tomorrow or sometime soon. I will do some more research into this and report back to you guys in a few days.

@nolenjoney Logic is not cold. Think about it, if it wasn't for logic – the mathematical patterns that govern our universe – you would not be able to experience anything that you experience. Since the laws of nature are what bring about everything that we can perceive we have them to thank for things such as pleasent emotions, etc. Also, I think that logic can be used to solve humanity's suffering, and there are two reasons why I think so:

i) Every major advancement in human history has been made thanks to our ability to understand logic and apply it to reality (e.g. medical system, houses, the Internet, computers, and so on);

ii) Since I change my core value to logic (or at least I think I did, but we'll have to see) all my problems vanished from one second to another as it was just not logical to have them (e.g. low self-esteem, lack of confidence, procrastination).

PS: Sorry for the messy post, I am in a really excited and tired state while writing this. (Excited because of the effects of following the steps that were outlined in the documentary.)

[Leo Gura]

@Yonkey The problem is, all your logic is gonna crumble when push comes to shove. Emotions will over-power logic consistently. You cannot use thoughts to solve the problem(s) created by thoughts.

When the shit hits the fan, logic will fail.

Pursing spirituality and calling it "logic" is gonna create a lot of misunderstanding. Love, truth, or consciousness are much better labels.

[Yonkey]

@Leo Gura I'm really grateful that you're taking the time to discuss this as I've been helped many times before by your videos. But let me explain why I don't think that emotions are going to overpower logic. When you follow the four steps that are detailed in the video (and follow them thoroughly) you change your what you value the most on an emotional level – your 'core value' as they call it – to logic. For example, I found that my core value was comfort and now I changed it to logic. When you change your core value to logic your rational part of the brain becomes inline with your emotional part of the brain, because the emotional part now also values logic on a fundamental level. (I think this is also why I've been in a state of presence and flow all the time since I made the click, since there has been no dissonance between neural networks within my brain.) 

PS: I write this just after waking up and I still experience the same effects that I described yesterday. 

[Elisabeth]

3 hours ago, Yonkey said:

When you change your core value to logic your rational part of the brain becomes inline with your emotional part of the brain, because the emotional part now also values logic on a fundamental level.

Yonkey, can you help me understand how alignment with logic works for you? From you now perspective:

• What's your passion and goals in life? What's your ethics?
• How do you decide what's wanted and unwanted on subjective matters (could be simple, like what color you like most)?
• How does love feel now, does it align with logic? Do you still love the same people in the same way?
• What about basic instinctive emotional stimuli, is it logical to save your life when frightened (by a tiger, or rather a car )? Do these instincts have the potential to overpower your logic?

I can't fathom how to work these things out with logic (and it's just the tip of the iceberg). It's a little surprising to me, but I simply can't do step one.

However I've listened to their guided meditation about step two, trying to find my core value, and although I didn't (want to) follow the recording word for word, and although I'm not sure if I got right what brings me safety, the interaction with my inner child was remarkable. What is it, that brings you safety, is a good question to pose. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Elisabeth

[Yonkey]

@Elisabeth 

19 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

Yonkey, can you help me understand how alignment with logic works for you? From you now perspective:

1. What's your passion and goals in life? What's your ethics?
2. How do you decide what's wanted and unwanted on subjective matters (could be simple, like what color you like most)?
3. How does love feel now, does it align with logic? Do you still love the same people in the same way?
4. What about basic instinctive emotional stimuli, is it logical to save your life when frightened (by a tiger, or rather a car )? Do these instincts have the potential to overpower your logic?

1. My passion/goals is to do whatever is most logical in any given moment. Right now, the most logical thing to do with the information I have seems to be to try to restructure my worldview and belief systems to aligned with reality. This process includes reading up on things and gathering new information, questioning all my beliefs, and especially, reflecting upon everything that might cause be dissonance. The people who made the documentary also have some resources to help you once you've changed your core value to logic, so yesterday I spent some time looking into them.

My ethics: I don't have strictly defined ethics as what is 'ethical' to do may vary from situation to situation. For instance, one may have a principle that he/she will never kill someone. However, if you're posed with the situation where you have to make the decision between killing one person and hence saving 10, or not killing anyone but the person you didn't kill will kill 10 people, then your ethical principle doesn't make sense anymore. Consequently, logic is my moral compass in every situation.

 

2. Well, once again, I will just want what is most logical (which varies from situation to situation, and is also dependant on the information that I have). When it comes to deciding on color I would just choose the one I find most aesthetically appealing unless choosing another one is of strategic significance.

 

3. The emotion of love feels the same. I still love the people I used to love. I think though that what you're really meaning to ask with your third question is whether logic makes you a cold robot or not. The answer: Absolutely not. You will still have and experience emotions like the rest of humanity, the difference is that your emotional part of the brain will be aligned with the rational part of your brain and thus you will not experience inner conflict.

 

4. I haven't been into such a situation. However, judging by what neurology says instincts in critical situations will overpower your ability of rational thinking. It's called an amygdala hijack.

[Schulzy]

@Leo Gura Its been few days and i have never been happier. I do experience emotions just like i did before but i find a reason for them and try to understand where they are coming from from a logical perspective. I try stop and thinking about why i am feeling this way and i either act upon it or accept it. Sometimes it is too hard because like you said emotions simply overflow the rationale (e.g amygdala hijack) but i feel like i have alot more control over myself. 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Schulzy Okay, but you do realize control is an illusion, right? You in fact don't control anything.

[David1]

@Schulzy If you dig a little deeper...this guy 'athene' he calls himself. My gawd. I like to think that i'm openminded, but not so openminded that the wind howls between my ears. I mean there are limits to what a more or less intelligent human can tolerate.

 

[Elisabeth]

@Yonkey Thank you. I still cannot imagine what my decision making would look like with "logic" as a core "value". I don't want to pursue logic, I do pursue understanding and I want to pursue love and compassion. I see paradoxes I can't reconcile. It's probably not for me. 

[Lisaya]

@Leo Gura what does that even mean "control is an illusion" ? 
sorry i want to understand but if he doesn't experience duality between what he wants to do and what he does, how is this an illusion?

[Leo Gura]

@Lisaya Nonduality means there's nothing in control.