If Oneness is true, how are you not fully enlightened right now?

[BipolarGrowth]

If enlightenment exists and is possible, how can you not be it as you are right now? How can there be a Buddha who attained to enlightenment and a you that isn’t enlightened if everything is one? 
 

This belief “I exist but am not enlightened” relies on nothing but dualities. Buddha/me. Truth/illusion. Enlightened/unenlightened. Enlightenment is not reliant on special circumstances of being a specific illusory self with history of spiritual practice. Believing you are unenlightened takes illusion. It’s fake. It’s an identity. Anyone who speaks of oneness but thinks they aren’t enlightened does not truly know what perfect oneness is. Perfect oneness is unspeakable. It’s not Love. It’s not Truth. It’s not God. Why? Because these things are all defined. If God/Love/Truth has any permanent meaning or quality to it (even meaninglessness or no qualities), it’s an imposter. 

[Terell Kirby]

@BipolarGrowth Enlightenment at its essence is quite simple. It's the realization that you are God. One who comes to this is as enlightened as they'll ever be.

The complexity is in the details, to get to this summation. Language only complicates the matter honestly. You must walk the path and put your trust into direct experience.

[4201]

We are enlightenment but not enlightened, as enlightened implies some sort of past event which made us permanently under the idea that we are enlightened.

You can identify with the life story of a self who became enlightened, but that is not enlightenment. Enlightenment is only now, trying to force the future into being a certain way (imagining a self which will act in a manner judged as "enlightened") is different from enlightenment.

Any reason as to why one wouldn't be aware of it's true nature is, in itself, a misconception about it's true nature. The reasons themselves are lack of enlightenment. "I'm not enlightened because of X" is a thought pushing you away from enlightenment.

Edited July 26, 2021 by 4201

[RMQualtrough]

Enlightenment is about a finite mind coming to the realization I think. God is inherently enlightened and that is what we are no matter what we do. Like when dreaming no matter what characters appear it is your mind, I assume the idea of enlightenment is similar to becoming lucid in a dream.

[BipolarGrowth]

46 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Enlightenment is about a finite mind coming to the realization I think. God is inherently enlightened and that is what we are no matter what we do. Like when dreaming no matter what characters appear it is your mind, I assume the idea of enlightenment is similar to becoming lucid in a dream.

Yes, the character realizes it can never exist, there is no present moment, and enlightenment is eternal death. Death is what gives beauty to everything. God doesn’t make it to full enlightenment because any experience is an illusion. You have to survive nonexistence to realize what full enlightenment is. Partial enlightenment can happen to the living, but the thing beyond both life and death is all that “experiences” enlightenment. This is parinibbana. 

[Matthew85]

You have spent eon's in the state you call "enlightenment". You are currently creating a life as a limited human on earth to forget that and experience something different. Now you are creating the journey of discovering it again from a new perspective. A very interesting exploration. But many are quite content to never wake up while here on earth and that experience is just as interesting. Life is an endless journey of creation and exploration. 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

3 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

If enlightenment exists and is possible, how can you not be it as you are right now? How can there be a Buddha who attained to enlightenment and a you that isn’t enlightened if everything is one? 

Heh, kind of funny how this recurring revelation either receives glowing agreement or is being sneered at as a load of Neo Advaita BS by the people of this forum, depending on who says it and the style of delivery.

And, of course, you are absolutely right. 

[BipolarGrowth]

2 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Heh, kind of funny how this recurring revelation either receives glowing agreement or is being sneered at as a load of Neo Advaita BS by the people of this forum, depending on who says it and the style of delivery.

And, of course, you are absolutely right. 

Especially if you believe or even can imagine or experience anything like solipsism. That’s what oneness is. It was my first ever awakening experience at age 4 lol. If it’s all you, you are all knowledge, awakenings, buddhas, gods, jhanas, enlightened beings, dharma, nonexistence, magic, fiction, beauty, deception, sexuality, meta cognition, genius, clumsiness, etc. ad infinitum. 

[Surfingthewave]

@BipolarGrowth

You're getting it conceptually. Why do you think that you're not experiencing Oneness right now? Or to rephrase How are you experiencing Oneness right now? 

It's a recognition and a non duality of things. What is Oneness to you? Yes there is no separation. The Buddha got enlightened when he gave up seeking it (although he had 16 years of work behind him). 

I find Adyashanti's books really help to clarify the above. Walking through the door of "I am" he describes it. 

We're so used to seeking, when we find it, we often resist. 

Break down the line "I exist but am not Enlightened" to I am. Just I am. Meditate on this / contemplate this and see where it gets you. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[BipolarGrowth]

20 minutes ago, Surfingthewave said:

@BipolarGrowth

You're getting it conceptually. Why do you think that you're not experiencing Oneness right now? Or to rephrase How are you experiencing Oneness right now? 

It's a recognition and a non duality of things. What is Oneness to you? Yes there is no separation. The Buddha got enlightened when he gave up seeking it (although he had 16 years of work behind him). 

I find Adyashanti's books really help to clarify the above. Walking through the door of "I am" he describes it. 

We're so used to seeking, when we find it, we often resist. 

Break down the line "I exist but am not Enlightened" to I am. Just I am. Meditate on this / contemplate this and see where it gets you. 

I’m not making this post from anything but helpless perfect oneness coming into the simultaneity of sensations immediately arising and passing. There isn’t even a present moment to hold on to. 

[Surfingthewave]

@BipolarGrowth

Yes, indeed. But you still think there's an I am - experiencing? 

That's how you're making definitions/ meanings. 

Think of it as consciousness having a human experience not the other way round.

[Leo Gura]

Oneness being true does not mean Oneness is conscious of Oneness.

Just like the Earth being round does not mean that creatures on the Earth know it is round.

Does an ant know the Earth is round?

Knowing the Earth is round requires going meta on it, seeing it from a distance so to speak.

The ant is too close to the Earth to realize it's roundness.

P.S. Don't fool yourself. You are not fully enlightened.

[AdamR95]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

P.S. Don't fool yourself. You are not fully enlightened.

@Leo Gura What is your criterion to consider someone fully enlightened? Isnt it kind of arbitrary? You can always improve your embodiment of truth, is full enlightement even a thing then? You can move up and down but it seems to me that there si no upward maximum but it is rather strangeloop.

From my experience when i am in higher states of consciousness (sober) i see others as enlightened because i am conscious that their ignorance is only my ignorance projected. They are me after all.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, AdamR95 said:

What is your criterion to consider someone fully enlightened?

Are you conscious of Infinity/Absolute Truth or not?

That is the criterion.

Of course there are many levels of depth to this consciousness. But there has to be some bare minimum level of this consciousness, which 99.9999% of people simply lack.

[Eternity]

@BipolarGrowth When referring to non-duality we are forced to speak on two levels.  Our language requires terms that refer to the delusion we currently appear to be living in.  Non-duality requires entirely different terminology.  There is no language specifically to explain what it is.  Mostly we can only describe what the delusion is not.  "Netti netti."  That is why it appears to be just all dualistic terminology.  As you listen to lectures or read up on it, you will have to distinguish which level is being spoken of, the dualistic or non-dualistic.  And the terms will switch back and forth from one sentence to another.  This is tantamount to learning a new language without a glossary, or dictionary or curriculum for learning it.  It can't be learned over night no matter what you try.  Even Eckartd Tolle who went through his experience in an instant did not try to express any concepts for years until he had studied ACIM, Buddhism and Advaita to learn the most helpful terms so that he could express it.

[AdamR95]

31 minutes ago, Eternity said:

@BipolarGrowth When referring to non-duality we are forced to speak on two levels.  Our language requires terms that refer to the delusion we currently appear to be living in.  Non-duality requires entirely different terminology.

@Eternity We cant develope nondual terminology, we will only develope higher level of dual language. And we already developed some higher dual concepts like "Absolute with uper case A" but it is just higher level of duality. We instead need more experience of what nondual means.

[gettoefl]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Oneness being true does not mean Oneness is conscious of Oneness.

Just like the Earth being round does not mean that creatures on the Earth know it is round.

Does an ant know the Earth is round?

Knowing the Earth is round requires going meta on it, seeing it from a distance so to speak.

The ant is too close to the Earth to realize it's roundness.

P.S. Don't fool yourself. You are not fully enlightened.

i was happy and was the mellifluous instrument

i was masterful and was the virtuoso musician

transcending here this that there ... lo! behold the orchestra

the trance ending ... for good

Edited July 27, 2021 by gettoefl

[WelcometoReality]

@BipolarGrowth Believing that one is enlightened or not doesn't make that the experience for most people. There are levels of consciousness which people are operating from and even levels of enlightenment. Check out David R Hawkins book Power vs Force for a map of consciousness levels.

What you are pointing to is your perspective right now. Which is fine but was that your experience a year ago?

[Nahm]

No you, enlightenment; no you, no enlightenment. 

[gettoefl]

"

Notwithstanding my repeating it constantly, you do not seem able to accept the fundamental fact that it is sheer nonsense to think of an individual's need for enlightenment. Basically, there is only 'I'; there is no 'me', no 'you', to be enlightened. How can a phenomenal object, which is only an appearance, be transformed by 'enlightenment' into something other that what it is, i.e. a mere appearance?

 

When 'enlightenment' occurs, there is an apperceiving that what we believe to be our normal condition — that of a phenomenal object — is merely a temporary condition, like an illness, which has come over our normal true state of the infinite. It is suddenly realized that what was being considered 'normal' was not really normal. The result of such apperceiving is a sort of instantaneous adjustment from an individual existence to just existence as such; volition disappears and whatever happens seems right and proper, One takes one's stand as the witness of all that happens, or rather only witnessing remains.

"

that is from instrument to orchestra