Leo’s recent blogpost mentioning COVID vaccination rates

[Akira]

Leo claims: 

“The other important fact you need to know is that 99% of people now hospitalized or dying from Covid-19 are unvaccinated.”

i’m not sure if this is true for the US but here in the UK this is not true...

 

why did you make this claim?

Either I’m misunderstanding or mistaken or you didn’t bother to check...

interesting 

[Opo]

Isn't there a lot of delta in UK? Vaccines are a little bit less effective against it. 

By unvaccinated he probably meant not fully vaccinated. 

To fall into the category of fully vaccinated two weeks need to pass after the second shot and obviously a lot of people are only partially vaccinated so depending on what you count you will end up with different statistics. 

[Akira]

When you make blatantly false statements like this to support or underpin some political argument you are making you come across as biased and disingenuous. 
 

And then when you obfuscate such criticisms as a lack of consciousness or development etc on the part of the critic it comes across as gas lighting and self bias 

 

I could very well be mistaken however

I look forward to comments on this

cheers 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Akira

[Akira]

12 minutes ago, Opo said:

Isn't there a lot of delta in UK? Vaccines are a little bit less effective against it. 

By unvaccinated he probably meant not fully vaccinated. 

To fall into the category of fully vaccinated two weeks need to pass after the second shot and obviously a lot of people are only partially vaccinated so depending on what you count you will end up with different statistics. 

There is a lot of delta here, apparently

perhaps your assessment is a fair one

[roar]

The Uk has been using the AstraZeneca vaccine extensively, and it's not as protective, especially for Delta, as the mRNA shots.

[Leo Gura]

The data in that chart was US data. So of course the 99% figure is also US data.

Vaccine is still 99% effective against Delta death/serious hospitalization.

If you google around you can easily find the 99% figure for the US.

[Akira]

57 minutes ago, roar said:

The Uk has been using the AstraZeneca vaccine extensively, and it's not as protective, especially for Delta, as the mRNA shots.

Interesting

perhaps this is contributing to a different picture here in the UK. I’ll have to look into that

 

cheers

[Akira]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The data in that chart was US data. So of course the 99% figure is also US data.

Vaccine is still 99% effective against Delta death/serious hospitalization.

If you google around you can easily find the 99% figure for the US.

Fair enough

perhaps the picture is different over there

Hopefully things will become clearer regarding this pandemic as we move forward on the timeline 

I guess I’ll just keep checking in from time to time to see how things progress and try to deduce what may be the actual picture

cheers

[ItsNick]

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Akira said:

I guess I’ll just keep checking in from time to time to see how things progress and try to deduce what may be the actual picture

The picture is already about as clear as science can be.

Stop listening to toxic cynicism. It is poisoning your mind.

[Akira]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The picture is already about as clear as science can be.

Stop listening to toxic cynicism. It is poisoning your mind.

Perhaps

you might well be correct

I’ll probably know for sure within a year or so

Owen Cook seems to be indicating he doesn’t buy into the mainstream narrative here; and you’ve pointed us in his direction before (albeit not for advice regarding COVID).

I’m sorry but I find it very difficult to trust the mainstream media. They seem to lie an awful lot... 

There are strange things happening around this whole COVID situation. Many strange future possibilities arising also. Given my lack of direct evidence for COVID being as is projected; And given my interpretation of the media as being generally somewhat agenda driven and politically biased, I will wait and see what actually happens before I make any conclusions...

time will tell and I will try to accept what it tells whatever it tells

I don’t know

perhaps you somehow do?

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Akira said:

Perhaps

you might well be correct

I’ll probably know for sure within a year or so

If it takes you that long to figure this out, your epistemology needs a lot of work.

Quote

Owen Cook seems to be indicating he doesn’t buy into the mainstream narrative here; and you’ve pointed us in his direction before (albeit not for advice regarding COVID).

Owen Cook is not someone you should listen to blindly. There are plenty of things he will mislead you on if you just let him fill your head with ideas.

When I share resources with you I expect you to have keen discernment and independence of thought. My shares are not an invitation to mindless info consumption.

Quote

I’m sorry but I find it very difficult to trust the mainstream media. They seem to lie an awful lot... 

Mainstream media actually lies very little. They have higher journalistic standards than any indie media.

They have certain blindspots and perspective, but this is not lying.

Quote

There are strange things happening around this whole COVID situation. Many strange future possibilities arising also. Given my lack of direct evidence for COVID being as is projected; And given my interpretation of the media as being generally somewhat agenda driven and politically biased, I will wait and see what actually happens before I make any conclusions...

time will tell and I will try to accept what it tells whatever it tells

Survival does not afford us such luxuries as sitting around for years and stewing in toxic mindless cynicism.

While you sit and doubt, millions of people die from inaction and the spreading of false ideas.

[Akira]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If it takes you that long to figure this out, your epistemology needs a lot of work.

For sure my epistemology needs work. However it’s also the case that I don’t have too much time to investigate throughly the things the news projects at me . And I have a hard time merely believing experts that are presented to me or those who disagree with those experts... so I’ll continue to withhold my assent as the picture unfolds...

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Owen Cook is not someone you should listen to blindly. There are plenty of things he will mislead you on if you just let him fill your head with ideas.

I try not to believe anything blindly. I was just giving one example (of someone we both know of) who I perceive as fairly switched on and observant as being is disagreement with your conclusions.

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mainstream media actually lies very little. They have higher journalistic standards than any indie media.

They have certain blindspots and perspective, but this is not lying.

I see them lie often. I see them ascribe views to people by removing context often.

I see them character assassinate people.

I see them miss out pieces of context to project meanings onto news pieces that in context do not have those meanings.

I see them emphasise and exaggerate some news whilst hiding and obscuring other news

they seem to be in the business of behaviour management and manipulation more so than sincerely describing events...

but I could be wrong about that, genuinely...

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Survival does not afford us such luxuries as sitting around for years and stewing in toxic mindless cynicism.

The existence of atrocities abundant throughout human history and the clear example of people buying and locking into paradigms that made such atrocities possible. Must give us pause!

perhaps your epistemology allows you to be so certain about things which you didn’t experience directly... or perhaps you did experience something that I did not... or perhaps your research into this subject is far more extensive than mine... 
 

I could be wrong about many things. 
Could you? You seem convinced. Perhaps you have good reason that you cannot communicate here. I can allow for that possibility...

but your strong conclusions on some topics seem somewhat ill conceived to my biased mind

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Akira said:

The existence of atrocities abundant throughout human history and the clear example of people buying and locking into paradigms that made such atrocities possible. Must give us pause!

Then the atrocity of Covid and vaccine denial should give you pause.

The very thing you fear is the very thing your fear creates.

[Akira]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Then the atrocity of Covid and vaccine denial should give you pause.

The very thing you fear is the very thing your fear creates.

It does give me pause

hence this discussion

i genuinely don’t know

but it’s beginning to look as though most of the vaccines are fine at least in the short term

 

[Milos Uzelac]

May I ask unrelated to the topic in question in this thread since I was immediately curious when I saw it who is that Japanese guy on your profile picture? I thought at first that it was the famous Japanese film director Akira Kurosawa in old age but I looked it up and this guy doesn't look at all like him. So I am curious if the question is not personal and intruding to you and if you can possibly answer me who is the Jaoanese guy that you choose as your profile picture? ?

Edited July 24, 2021 by Milos Uzelac

[Akira]

@Milos Uzelac

yeah no probs mate

It’s Takashi Shimura. He was a Japanese actor that starred in a lot of Akira Kurosawa movies. This particular shot is from a scene of one of my favourite movies “Ikiru” 

I’d definitely recommend that movie btw

[BadHippie]

@Akira

Definitely not true for Germany as well. Same goes for Austria. 

I just checked UK. Crazy...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993879/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_15.pdf

Table 6: Attendance to emergency care and deaths by vaccination status among Delta confirmed cases (sequencing and genotyping) in England, 1 February 2021 to 7 June 2021.

• 33,206 Delta variant cases admitted to the hospital
  • 19,573 unvaccinated, 13,633 vaccinated (one or two doses)
• 23 people of the unvaccinated people died (0.1175%); 19 people of the vaccinated (0.1393%)
  • Increase of 18.6% in the death-rate compared to the unvaccinated
• 1,785 patients had both doses (14 days prior to admission into hospital)
  • 12 died (0.6722%)
  • Death rate more than 5 times higher than the unvaccinated

Sure the data could be wrong, or I did some mistake. Or maybe they died randomly, from some other cause, but that arguments works for both sides. Also this is basically the same as in Germany.

Quote

If it takes you that long to figure this out, your epistemology needs a lot of work.

Feels more like you are jumping to conclusions to be honest.
 

Quote

Mainstream media actually lies very little. They have higher journalistic standards than any indie media.

They have certain blindspots and perspective, but this is not lying.

Not sure if that is true for US, but definitely not true for Germany (and the last few years). Higher journalistic standards are long gone here in the Mainstream (even though the citiziens pay them).

 

What interests me is how Leo´s claim came into being, that 99% of people dying from Covid (US) in hospitals are unvaccinated. Maybe there is something else going on? It should be the same virus there. So that can´t explain the difference. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by BadHippie

[Epikur]

@BadHippie

Can you check other sources as well?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/16/how-covid-vaccines-work-against-delta-variant

[Milos Uzelac]

3 hours ago, Akira said:

@Milos Uzelac

yeah no probs mate

It’s Takashi Shimura. He was a Japanese actor that starred in a lot of Akira Kurosawa movies. This particular shot is from a scene of one of my favourite movies “Ikiru” 

I’d definitely recommend that movie btw

Yeah I think saw him somewhere before, in one of the movies, but didn't know his name and couldn't recognise him right off the bat. 

Thank you for answering ?

Yeah I haven't heard of that movie I watched the most talked about Ran and Yume etc. 

Thank you for that recommendation I will definitely give that movie I watch since I thoroughly enjoyed and loved watching all of the aforementioned Kurosawa films. All of them really invoked deep feelings and contemplative thoughts about life in me afterwards. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Milos Uzelac