Complex yet simple question for everyone, Appreciate some perspectives on it.

[Kamo]

When 2 people are standing next to one another, person A and person B. What is experiencing A's senses and thoughts and what is experiencing Bs?  If the answer is the same thing, Both A and B are identical such as (Awareness or God or Consciousness) What is that "same thing"? 

 So primary question: Could that mean person A knows persons B's senses and thoughts and vice versa? If not how come? ( Leo says because there is no need to) but that doesn't really answer the question. If they can not does this imply they are separate?  Maybe some of you have experienced moments where you and a friend were thinking the same things or you thought something and someone else said it when there was no direct conversation going on, or you said something and someone else said they were just thinking that. Situations such as this have been puzzling and tricky to understand, to what extend do these phenomena go?

Leo touched the answer to this question in "What is Consciousness?" with the lego house analogy. The question is more about the content inside Person A or Bs mind compared to just understanding how A and B are the same because I get that part. But he didnt actually answer the question there. 

[BipolarGrowth]

It’s all you. It’s all the same thing. If you’re experiencing your emotions, they are there. You can experience someone else’s emotions too, but they only exist if you are experiencing them. If it isn’t sensed right now, it’s less than nothing. 

[Dodo]

7 hours ago, Kamo said:

When 2 people are standing next to one another, person A and person B. What is experiencing A's senses and thoughts and what is experiencing Bs?  If the answer is the same thing, Both A and B are identical such as (Awareness or God or Consciousness) What is that "same thing"? 

 So primary question: Could that mean person A knows persons B's senses and thoughts and vice versa? If not how come? ( Leo says because there is no need to) but that doesn't really answer the question. If they can not does this imply they are separate?  Maybe some of you have experienced moments where you and a friend were thinking the same things or you thought something and someone else said it when there was no direct conversation going on, or you said something and someone else said they were just thinking that. Situations such as this have been puzzling and tricky to understand, to what extend do these phenomena go?

Leo touched the answer to this question in "What is Consciousness?" with the lego house analogy. The question is more about the content inside Person A or Bs mind compared to just understanding how A and B are the same because I get that part. But he didnt actually answer the question there. 

Love when people ask the good and controversial questions. 

For me the only way to tackle this is by example of another state of consciousness which we know for a fact (or do we?) has only One in it- your own dream state. 

Because in waking state we do not have the confirmation there is only One, like in dream, but just a suggestion/theory by some other characters that say it. 

In dream you can have all sort of characters, and they will do things which you do not have a clue about, even though everything is happening in your own mind. From this observation, I gather that there is a deeper intelligence at play which creates both you and the others and the whole story. Perhaps a good word would be the subconscious mind (for the dream case) and God for the waking case. But even in dreams you have your will, depending on the dream, and you can make choices that alter the dream events (especially in more lucid dreams).

And it appears others are also doing things that alter the dream events. But these entities are all unreal - or you can say, only real while the dream is going on. Now if you say this to a dream character during the dream they would, supposedly, argue with you and say you are dumb, and maybe even start beating you to prove that its real (just a scenario). That would be undesirable by your character, even though your character was correct in what it was saying. 

Moral of the story: know the truth, but don't go about saying it, so you keep out of trouble and nightmares  Have a good dream instead by doing contemplations silently and then not preaching to others, unless someone wants your input. 

So really, if this reality is a dream on another level, both Person A and Person B are figments of Reality's imagination playing out a story (but a story with branches, and your choices and other's choices do matter in terms of what happens - not predetermined IMHO, but spontaneously emerging ). Non of them is You, and both of them is you at the same time! But so is the chair I guess. 

We won't figure it out, that's like an ant trying to figure out maths. Its just beyond us and will always be! IMHO

 

PS: I have never had other people's thoughts even in a dream! But I have been spider man, and I can clearly say its not cool when both the cops and the bad guys are after you!  I would take peace over super powers. And really, from contemplating what you suggest one can really fall off the rails if goes too deep! I assume at least  

Edited July 24, 2021 by Dodo

[Dodo]

7 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

It’s all you. It’s all the same thing. If you’re experiencing your emotions, they are there. You can experience someone else’s emotions too, but they only exist if you are experiencing them. If it isn’t sensed right now, it’s less than nothing. 

 

But lets see if its radically correct through this made up example: Your mom calls you and says she needs help, someone is trying to get in her house and only you can help. Then the phone switches off and you are supposed to go help her... But then, you remember, "if its not sensed right now, its less than nothing". "My mom doesn't exist now, she only existed a moment ago and it was just her voice too, not her!" Now you are chilling, having an ice cream and your mom gets mugged. That's if you are radical about what you just said! I get that it might be helpful during meditation to keep centered, but it is not an absolute thing from where I'm standing. 

Mixing meditation technique with real life might be oversimplification and using a sock, which you try to fit your whole body in... It might be a good and valid tool for one thing, but not absolute.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Dodo

[BipolarGrowth]

7 minutes ago, Dodo said:

 

But lets see if its radically correct through this made up example: Your mom calls you and says she needs help, someone is trying to get in her house and only you can help. Then the phone switches off and you are supposed to go help her... But then, you remember, "if its not sensed right now, its less than nothing". "My mom doesn't exist now, she only existed a moment ago and it was just her voice too, not her!" Now you are chilling, having an ice cream and your mom gets mugged. That's if you are radical about what you just said! I get that it might be helpful during meditation to keep centered, but it is not an absolute thing from where I'm standing. 

Mixing meditation technique with real life might be oversimplification and using a sock, which you try to fit your whole body in... It might be a good and valid tool for one thing, but not absolute.

Just because it’s all you doesn’t make it less real. It makes it more significant. 

[Dodo]

Just now, BipolarGrowth said:

Just because it’s all you doesn’t make it less real. It makes it more significant. 

This was not the focus of my reply and critique. I did not say that you wouldn't do anything because its all you, but because your mom doesnt exist when she is not in the room. Or if you do something about it, then you prove that what you say is false and things that are not perceived right now also exist. 

Which one is it? 

[BipolarGrowth]

5 hours ago, Dodo said:

This was not the focus of my reply and critique. I did not say that you wouldn't do anything because its all you, but because your mom doesnt exist when she is not in the room. Or if you do something about it, then you prove that what you say is false and things that are not perceived right now also exist. 

Which one is it? 

You don’t understand the relationship between existence and nonexistence which is making it impossible for you to perceive this specific bundle of sensations for what it really is. I tried to give a helpful response. If you don’t care for it and me trying to share what I’ve come to understand, I can just move on from the thread. No point in debating. 

[snowyowl]

14 hours ago, Kamo said:

When 2 people are standing next to one another, person A and person B. What is experiencing A's senses and thoughts and what is experiencing Bs?  If the answer is the same thing, Both A and B are identical such as (Awareness or God or Consciousness) What is that "same thing"? 

... Leo touched the answer to this question in "What is Consciousness?" with the lego house analogy. The question is more about the content inside Person A or Bs mind compared to just understanding how A and B are the same because I get that part. But he didnt actually answer the question there. 

I don't think there is anyone experiencing senses and thoughts in the first place, that may be what's causing this question to arise. There's just senses and thoughts. They are self-knowing, in that when there's a sense-perception or a thought, that awareness is the knowing already, there isn't a knower distinct from the known. Similarly I don't see a distinction between mind and content. Mind is just the collective name for all the apparently distinct contents.

The two people standing next to each other are part of the diversity of forms, but understanding this interplay of the unified whole vs the multitude of things is the nub of mystical spirituality imo. I don't exclude the possibility of telepathy etc, maybe there is a higher level holon which includes awareness of different people, but mostly we're 'stuck' in the limitation of a single bodily form / consciousness. (Form is consciousness and consciousness is form to misquote the Heart sutra).

[Kamo]

@Dodo Thank you for your input, i havent thought about the fact that your right, in a dream there doesnt appear to be shared thoughts by the dream characters and what not so i see how that translates to being in the waking state. I understand how all is dreamed by reality and that makes sense. Its definitely something you just kinda gotta silently keep to yourself because I do see the potential dangers of going down that rabbit hole and falling off the rails in the waking state when those ideas are pushed because I dont think the ego can handle that. It actually does end up deconstructing, but i dont know if thats the best method to do so lol. When you start questioning if others can read your mind and stuff it certainly brings on some emotional challenges and further attachment to thoughts to the  point where you start trying to control the thoughts and resist them which creates problems. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Kamo