Personal vs. Spiritual Development

[Gianna]

What are you guys' thoughts on the interplay between personal and spiritual development? I know there are books on it– like Integral Psychology by Ken Wilber, or, Toward a Psychology of Awakening by John Welwood. But, what is your guys' experience? Do you feel like developing personally leans into spiritual growth and spiritual realization leans into personal growth? Because my experience lately tells me that they are completely seperate. 

For instance, after realizing no-self, I feel like any 'personal development' is just the development of a false self. I also feel like because this false self is so far from the nature of pure being (of one's true nature), that any realization of pure being (of one's true nature) can't even touch the negative behavioral patterns, mechanisms, fears, and anxieties of the false self because the false self doesn't even exist. Kind of hard to explain, hopefully, you guys get what I mean. 

Just wanting to know everyone's experience, thoughts, opinions, around this  

 

[ivankiss]

3 minutes ago, Gianna said:

after realizing no-self, I feel like any 'personal development' is just the development of a false self. I also feel like because this false self is so far from the nature of pure being 

That's a half-baked awakening.

Notice the duality you're creating. There cannot be 'a false self' if there is only Truth.

Personal, universal, subjective, objective, spiritual, material... All dualities. 

You must dissolve perception. 

Then all there is is Being. Absolutely free, joyful, loving Being. Untouched by any label.

 

[Gianna]

13 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

There cannot be 'a false self' if there is only Truth.

Truth is always there. But if you are not aware of it– and thus, are only aware of Truth as it is coated by deception– then you are living out of a false self (a coated version of the Truth). Or, as Leo would call it, self-deception. 
No? 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Gianna

[ivankiss]

@Gianna That is true for someone who is at that stage.

My gut tells me you are not.

[noticeom]

Hey! Here's how I used to think of this.

Personal growth is like striving for positive change. And spiritual growth is like learning to be content with what already is. 

After I had a few awakenings myself I experienced these as totally separate. But as I went deeper and my realizations matured I experience it all as one big thing.

there is no fundamental self. But we can still embrace our own humanity ya know? And always try to be the best person you can be.

Edited July 23, 2021 by noticeom

[_Archangel_]

@Gianna

14 hours ago, Gianna said:

Because my experience lately tells me that they are completely seperate

I don't know if completely separate, but very distinct.

 

[Gianna]

@_Archangel_ Interesting! Thank you  

[Matthew85]

@Gianna Don't lose sight that you created the limited Gianna self. Otherwise you wouldn't be here. So fully enjoy the diversity of experiences you can have with her.

[Gianna]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:31 PM, Matthew85 said:

@Gianna Don't lose sight that you created the limited Gianna self. Otherwise you wouldn't be here. So fully enjoy the diversity of experiences you can have with her.

@Matthew85 This is so beautiful! I agree.  

[Barna]

To talk about personal development and spiritual development first we have to specify exactly what we mean by these. I would assume that by personal development you mean developing the skills to relate to others. And by spiritual development, you might mean developing the skills to relate to yourself (or no-self). In my experience, these two kinds of skills are pretty much interdependent, they develop together. 

For example, when I have a conversation with someone (even now, with you ), it's a training ground for expressing myself as honestly as possible. So it improves two skills: honesty and self-expression. For me, these are very important spiritual skills, and I'm practicing them through my personal development process.

And it works the other way around as well. The skills that I'm developing while being alone and meditating are pretty useful in my personal life. For example, when I'm alone doing shadow work and I'm facing my feelings, then I'm learning to see my thoughts/emotions more clearly. And I'm also learning to see how I'm lying to myself about certain things and how can I be more honest with myself. These skills help me a lot to relate to other people because if I clearly see my own thoughts/emotions, then it's much easier to recognize them in other people. And if I learn to be more honest with myself then it's much easier, to be honest with others. And those people that you like, probably love honesty. They actually crave it. It's such a rare thing to meet someone who is totally honest and open about everything, especially about deeper topics. So I just learn to be honest, for the sake of others and myself.