Worry About Climate Change

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, roar said:

@Preety_India Our dear Leo is living in an artificial "city" in the middle of the desert, where he would be dead pretty quick, if it wasn't for all the tech he is surrounded by.  He's views are lofty, unattached to REAL reality, his just online and in fake Las Vegas, Murika.  His guesses are way off.  We are already in the room full of shit and fans.  I live off and in nature in the extreme arctic.  Things are more pronounced and immediate here.  It's been quite obvious for 20 years already, that this will be bad.  And now we are here.  Good luck too you all

You live in the artic. Wow. Would love to know more. Nature is always astounding. Best lessons learned there.

And about Leo.... Leo has a kind big soul in a tiny little apartment holed in this survival based world. I can understand how he feels. 

But Leo is a man of big plans. Never underestimate that.

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Preety_India

[roar]

Oh wow..Big plans, lives in Las Vegas.  Please explain.  Guns many?

[Windappreciator]

@Leo Gura I don't know what makes you think humanity has a special place and not that some other species could rise from our failure and face the challenge.

[roar]

@Windappreciator Because he's deluded murk af

[abundance]

On 7/22/2021 at 2:47 PM, Leo Gura said:

The social dynamics have completely changed from Roman and Mayan times.

The collapse of civilization is no longer an option since it would involve the entire planet.

I don't agree. That's not a given at all.

I tend to be very optimistic in the long term.

A few degrees rise will not end any civilization.

No one has laid out a reasonable scenario as to how a few degrees rise would destroy civilization. This is just wild speculation akin to saying that robots will kill us all.

As climate changes mankind will simply adapt. Obviously, since there is no other alternative. Technologies will rapidly be developed to enable this adaptation.

Climate change isn't just the temperature rising a 'few degrees' . Its all the ramifications that come with temperature rise. This includes water scarcity, droughts, famines, extreme weather, mass migrations etc. These things will happen more frequently and with greater intensity. And it isn't just the calamities brought on by nature we have to worry about, but also the increased likelihood of conflicts as a result. 

Also the global avg temperature rising a few degrees sounds minuscule but its actually very significant. Earth systems are incredibly resilient but very delicate. More delicate than we realize and we really don't fully appreciate it. Our entire civilization is dependent on a stable climate and we are not prepared for such an extreme shift in such a short frame of time. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by abundance

[Apparition of Jack]

Throwing out a random post - don’t forget that there are higher forces at work here. Humanity will receive support from higher beings interested in our survival.

If anything climate change could be the catalyst to re-awaken humanity into a spiritual understanding of the world. Don’t just think in terms of pure physics and data guys.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Windappreciator said:

@Leo Gura I don't know what makes you think humanity has a special place and not that some other species could rise from our failure and face the challenge.

Any other species that would arise would face the same survival and development hurdles.

You assume the selfishness of mankind is a mistake. It is not.

2 hours ago, abundance said:

Climate change isn't just the temperature rising a 'few degrees' . Its all the ramifications that come with temperature rise. This includes water scarcity, droughts, famines, extreme weather, mass migrations etc. These things will happen more frequently and with greater intensity. And it isn't just the calamities brought on by nature we have to worry about, but also the increased likelihood of conflicts as a result.

Obviously. I have already factored all that into my calculations.

You are missing the big picture. What you're talking about is the little picture. Scientists' view are always the little picture. They have no vision aside from their calculations and models. If you want to understand where society is headed you need vision beyond any models or charts.

I am not saying no one will suffer. I am saying the suffering will be manageable and pale in comparison to our progress. I am not denying the effects of climate change. Yes, there will be more fires, hurricanes, flooding, droughts, extinctions, etc. But that is not any kind of deal-breaker. All that shit will be managed.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Any other species that would arise would face the same survival and development hurdles.

You assume the selfishness of mankind is a mistake. It is not.

Obviously. I have already factored all that into my calculations.

You are missing the big picture. What you're talking about is the little picture. Scientist's view are always the little picture. They have no vision aside from their calculations and models. If you want to understand where society is headed you need vision beyond any models or charts.

You really believe humanity can survive. How do you factor in the shortage of Resources?

Have you looked into Nasa research on how lakes are shrinking all over the planet?

 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

You really believe humanity can survive. How do you factor in the shortage of Resources?

There is no zero shortage of resources.

The Earth has enough resources to sustain trillions of people.

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Have you looked into Nasa research on how lakes are shrinking all over the planet?

Meh, not relevant in the big picture.

The amount of water on this planet is endless.

[Roy]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The Earth has enough resources to sustain trillions of people.

Maybe if we all lived like medieval peasants, yes.

At our current rate of consumptions and modern material expectations though, no.

Widespread, environmental systems are already under strain or collapsing and that is only with 5%~ of people enjoying a first world western lifestyle.

[Thought Art]

14 minutes ago, Roy said:

Maybe if we all lived like medieval peasants, yes.

At our current rate of consumptions and modern material expectations though, no.

Widespread, environmental systems are already under strain or collapsing and that is only with 5%~ of people enjoying a first world western lifestyle.

And everyone else thinks they should be able to catch up to the west and are doing their best I think to do so. We have set a bad example for the rest of the world. 

Imagine looking up to devils as an example for modernization? Ha!

Lol, there are thousands of people dying all around the world from lack of access to fresh water. Doesn't matter how much water there is in the world if you have none around you. 99% of it is undrinkable as it is.

Can humanity survive in general climate change? Probably, but many will die.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Roy said:

Maybe if we all lived like medieval peasants, yes.

No, at even higher standards of living than wealthy people today.

Don't confuse the limits of your mind for the limits of the Earth.

[abundance]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Any other species that would arise would face the same survival and development hurdles.

You assume the selfishness of mankind is a mistake. It is not.

Obviously. I have already factored all that into my calculations.

You are missing the big picture. What you're talking about is the little picture. Scientists' view are always the little picture. They have no vision aside from their calculations and models. If you want to understand where society is headed you need vision beyond any models or charts.

I am not saying no one will suffer. I am saying the suffering will be manageable and pale in comparison to our progress. I am not denying the effects of climate change. Yes, there will be more fires, hurricanes, flooding, droughts, extinctions, etc. But that is not any kind of deal-breaker. All that shit will be managed.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I don't forsee us curtailing climate change within a timeframe necessary to prevent collapse of our global economy.

On a global scale, we're barely able to manage COVID-19. How can we as a collective be expected to manage mass migrations, conflicts over resources, and extreme natural calamities all at once? Combating climate change is more than just developing some magical technological solution. It will necessitate global cooperation the likes of which we've never seen. It will require a systemic change to how we live our lives on this planet. For this reason I'm pessimistic. We're simply too unconscious to overcome this challenge within our current paradigm.

Humans will survive as a species. And another globalized civilization will emerge eventually. What that civilization will look like is anyones guess but it won't be like anything we're accustomed to. 

 

[Milos Uzelac]

What I see here in general in the responses is bunch of (mostly) stage green development people guilting themselves by arguing how irresponsible the social environment they live in is and also how they need to adjust their individual lifestyles in opposition to it in order also not feel the burden of that responsibility and guilt to put themselves in the position where they safely criticize and distance themselves from the practices and behaviours of their majority social enviroment in order for them to feel that they are more considerate, sensitive and compassionate to the wider whole and ecosystem they feel is an inseparable part from themselves. Guilting themselves and alarming their social enviroment to be more responsible, conscious and aware of the wider whole that sustains them. How cute and a nice thing to see present in people, apart from the excessive guilt and moralising towards those who are unaware themselves of this, don't acknowledge it, too obsessed about themselves and their own personal problems or are to selfish to care for the wider whole. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Milos Uzelac

[Windappreciator]

@Leo Gura Whatever Leokovski. What makes you think our selfishness cap is predetermined like that. You said yourself god gave it's will to its creation. Do we not have an actual choice to develop out of this? 

Why would the form 'humanity' be preferred over any other of the species that could have a chance?

Edited July 24, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, abundance said:

Combating climate change is more than just developing some magical technological solution. It will necessitate global cooperation the likes of which we've never seen. It will require a systemic change to how we live our lives...

Perfect! Sounds like exactly what the doctor ordered.

There's nothing like having one's nuts in a vice to motivate some cooperation.

2 hours ago, Windappreciator said:

@Leo Gura 

Why would the form 'humanity' be preferred over any other of the species that could have a chance?

You're here, aren't you?

[Windappreciator]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You're here, aren't you?

I see.

[Superfluo]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The Earth has enough resources to sustain trillions of people.

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The amount of water on this planet is endless.

Could you elaborate on these ones or the logic behind them? How are you so sure?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Superfluo said:

Could you elaborate on these ones or the logic behind them? How are you so sure?

Just look at the sheer mass and volume of resources that comprise this planet. Mankind has not tapped even 1% of the Earth's resources. Mankind has merely skimmed the Earth's surface for the lowest-hanging fruit, and not even that.

We can generate unlimited energy.

We can use that energy to desalinate all the oceans.

We can drill miles into the Earth for any resource we want in unlimited quantities.

We can mine resources on the moon.

We can also make our use of resources thousands of times more efficient.

We can recycle resources thousands of times better.

There are no hard limits on any of these things.

[Happy Lizard]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just look at the sheer mass and volume of resources that comprise this planet. Mankind has not tapped even 1% of the Earth's resources. Mankind has merely skimmed the Earth's surface for the lowest-hanging fruit, and not even that.

We can generate unlimited energy.

We can use that energy to desalinate all the oceans.

We can drill miles into the Earth for any resource we want in unlimited quantities.

We can mine resources on the moon.

We can also make our use of resources thousands of times more efficient.

We can recycle resources thousands of times better.

There are no hard limits on any of these things.

nuclear energy ? 
 

do you see this a solution in the coming years? or will it take longer than that?

if it is, it might be better to study nuclear physics than environmental studies if this is actually workable and can generate lots of jobs.