Worry About Climate Change

[Shmurda]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God has noting to prove, but God is not an idiot either.

If you think your fear is wiser than 400,000 years of social evolution, perhaps you are a fool after all.

Lets have a look at the historical factors for civilizational collapse of the likes of Rome, The Mayans, The Han, The Incas:

(1) uncontrollable population movements (2) new epidemic diseases (3) failing states leading to increased warfare (4) collapse of trade routes leading to famine (5) and climate change.

Spot anything familiar? Do you think we might see anymore of these things occurring when food prices increase and mass migration occurs as land becomes more arid or sodden?

But tech will save our global civilization!  Not when the information ecology is so fucked that you can't get people and governments to agree on anything.

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You could not destroy civilized society if you tried. Try it! See how far you get.

Haha okay send me the nuke codes.

12 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Most people who worry about climate change aren't doing anything to try and change it. Getting stuck in fear mode does nothing. Get out into nature. While life is suffering in many places, it is also thriving in abundance in others. Also, living more sustainably won't hurt. 

Friend, I am not worried. I am happy. I often go out in nature; I work on a farm. But I also know when to call a spade a spade and I think a lot of people are avoiding their grief through optimism or bypassing. 

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Shmurda said:

Lets have a look at the historical factors for civilizational collapse of the likes of Rome, The Mayans, The Han, The Incas:

(1) uncontrollable population movements (2) new epidemic diseases (3) failing states leading to increased warfare (4) collapse of trade routes leading to famine (5) and climate change.

Spot anything familiar? Do you think we might see anymore of these things occurring when food prices increase and mass migration occurs as land becomes more arid or sodden?

All moot points because we now have a globalized world that is not based on empire.

The future is not the past. New shit is happening.

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But tech will save our global civilization!  Not when the information ecology is so fucked that you can't get people and governments to agree on anything.

That's the beauty of suffering: it tends to get people to awake up and agree on stuff they normally would not.

Working our way through a shitty information ecology is precisely the work our generation has been tasked with. This is not really a bug but a feature. We do this work so that future generation can feast off our fruits, just as our generation feasts off the fruits of WWII and slavery.

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Haha okay send me the nuke codes.

That's exactly my point. No one will send them to you because people aren't as stupid as you think they are.

[Shmurda]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All moot points because we now have a globalized world that is not based on empire.

The future is not the past. New shit is happening.

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Globalized world and the future means we are immune to those points how? 

Anyway I think we agree that Earth is  indeed (probably) heading for some serious climate related destruction and death no? Or do you imagine the future is bright in terms of prosperity and environmental recovery? 

If I'm honest the jury is out as to whether we will get full on collapse or  a painful transition period. Either way, the ship named "average global temperature" is not turning any time soon. 

Also, you love consciousness Leo. Look up the effects of breathing air with increased CO2 on the human brain and nervous system.

[Arcangelo]

IDGAF about climate change, because I am at stage orange, I just care about my money.

I know I will be dead when shit hits the fan and I don't have any kids, I literally couldn't care less.

[Thought Art]

Personally, I think climate change and it's implications are to be taken seriously. Do I think humanity's level of understanding and globalization can be used to save our sorry asses in the long run? Yes.

I think any work that can be done to mitigate the suffering of others is worth doing. I also think that humanity has never been in a situation with such a wicked problem. Past civilizations have destroyed their own ecology and died out because of it. Our current situation has it's own unique complexities that, though similar to past problems (information ecological problems have been around forever) we now depend on a highly sophisticated and complex global supply chain. Disruptions can ruin businesses, industries, etc... The more connected we are the more we depend on the whole global being in balance. Which, is problematic because now the whole thing is in deep threat of being put out of balance.  

See, I have a respect for Leo and his intelligence here. But, I am not sold. I think this is a real problem and should be taken very seriously. I don't suspect Leo is actually down playing that Climate change is a threat to our survival. We need to respect our environment I think if we want to last as a species. If anything, Globalization makes us more fragile in many ways just as it makes us more resilient and mature in others. 

We can't know anything from this thread ultimately. We need to observe this situation over the coming years. There is little we can do as individuals. 

We need to be sovereign and grounded in how we go about understanding large systemic issues. We are no where near ready to switch from burning fossil fuels as the world infrastructure is build on it, the creation of green energies also has a high carbon and environmental load, much of the world continues to eat meat, and so many developing countires need to clear cut the very lungs of our planet to feed their families. There are so many systemic problems all compounding at once. This isn't a "just suck the c02 out kind of problem imo. I kind of think it is magical thinking to think that all these various nations will all these complex survival needs are going to be able to agree and come together on this problem. You are not going to create a machine big enough to suck all the C02 out. (I mean, what do I know)... But, anyway.

I am just a qigong teacher and a musician. I would love to sing a song to make the world fall in love and work together. But, that is unlikely ahahah. Maybe I can make people dance and ease their pain. That is what I am here to do. To spread self love and to ease pain. We have many people on the front lines working for human rights and to protect our environment. There is so much stress and fear in our population.

We need to clean up our information ecology at the same time we clean up our environment.

I just bought lunch out today at the story, and just threw out 3 containers and a plastic bag of single use plastic. I need to get my own universe in order before I can really preach out the rest of the world.

I don't know enough to make any definitive statements on really anything in reality as of yet. The more I learn the more ignorant I realize I am. I also realize how ignorant and fragmented even the wisest of us are. So, I take everything I learn with a grain of salt. 

We are all basicaly children in the 'eyes' of the universe.

Even Intellectual mountain Leo. Thought I don't know what Leo knows, who claims he doesn't have his own consciousness. I still don't know what that means yet. You mean the video of yourself?

'Bitch, stay humble' - Kendrick Lamar

At the end of the day, I just don't want to see it at my windowsill

'cuz the tide is high, and it's rising still... and I DON'T WANNA SEE IT AT MY WINDOWSILL!'

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

8 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

IDGAF about climate change, because I am at stage orange, I just care about my money.

I know I will be dead when shit hits the fan and I don't have any kids, I literally couldn't care less.

Devil of the day award goes toooooo

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Shmurda said:

Globalized world and the future means we are immune to those points how? 

The social dynamics have completely changed from Roman and Mayan times.

The collapse of civilization is no longer an option since it would involve the entire planet.

Quote

Anyway I think we agree that Earth is  indeed (probably) heading for some serious climate related destruction and death no?

I don't agree. That's not a given at all.

Quote

Or do you imagine the future is bright in terms of prosperity and environmental recovery? 

I tend to be very optimistic in the long term.

Quote

If I'm honest the jury is out as to whether we will get full on collapse or  a painful transition period. Either way, the ship named "average global temperature" is not turning any time soon.

A few degrees rise will not end any civilization.

No one has laid out a reasonable scenario as to how a few degrees rise would destroy civilization. This is just wild speculation akin to saying that robots will kill us all.

As climate changes mankind will simply adapt. Obviously, since there is no other alternative. Technologies will rapidly be developed to enable this adaptation.

[Shmurda]

15 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Personally, I think climate change and it's implications are to be taken seriously. Do I think humanities level of understanding and globalization can be used to save our sorry asses in the long run? Yes.

I think any work that can be done to mitigate the suffering of others is worth doing. I also think that humanity has never been in a situation with such a wicked problem. Past civilizations have destroyed their own ecology and died out because of it. Our current situation has it's own unique complexities that, though similar to past problems (information ecological problems have been around forever) we now depend on a highly sophisticated and complex global supply chain. Disruptions can ruin businesses, industries, etc... The more connected we are the more we depend on the whole global being in balance. Which, is problematic because now the whole thing is in deep threat of being put out of balance.  

See, I have a respect for Leo and his intelligence here. But, I am not sold. I think this is a real problem and should be taken very seriously. I don't suspect Leo is actually down playing that Climate change is a threat to our survival. We need to respect our environment I think if we want to last as a species. If anything, Globalization makes us more fragile in many ways just as it makes us more resilient and mature in others. 

We can't know anything from this thread ultimately. We need to observe this situation over the coming years. There is little we can do as individuals. 

We need to be sovereign and grounded in how we go about understanding large systemic issues. We are no where near ready to switch from burning fossil fuels as the world infrastructure is build on it, the creation of green energies also has a high carbon and environmental load, much of the world continues to eat meat, and so many developing countires need to clear cut the very lungs of our planet to feed their families. There are so many systemic problems all compounding at once. This isn't a "just suck the c02 out kind of problem imo. I kind of think it is magical thinking to think that all these various nations will all these complex survival needs are going to be able to agree and come together on this problem. You are not going to create a machine big enough to suck all the C02 out. (I mean, what do I know)... But, anyway.

I am just a qigong teacher and a musician. I would love to sing a song to make the world fall in love and work together. But, that is unlikely ahahah. Maybe I can make people dance and ease their pain. That is what I am here to do. To spread self love and to ease pain. We have many people on the front lines working for human rights and to protect our environment. There is so much stress and fear in our population.

We need to clean up our information ecology at the same time we clean up our environment.

I just bought lunch out today at the story, and just threw out 3 containers and a plastic bag of single use plastic. I need to get my own universe in order before I can really preach out the rest of the world.

I don't know enough to make any definitive statements on really anything in reality as of yet. The more I learn the more ignorant I realize I am. I also realize how ignorant and fragmented even the wisest of us are. So, I take everything I learn with a grain of salt. 

We are all basicaly children in the 'eyes' of the universe. Even Intellectual mountain Leo. 

'Bitch, stay humble' - Kendrick Lamar

What a great summary. Legend, well done mate!

[Thought Art]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The social dynamics have completely changed from Roman and Mayan times.

The collapse of civilization is no longer an option since it would involve the entire planet.

I know that societies around the globe are overall maturing and becoming more unified and loving. I also see a lot of backlashes. 

There are so many factors in the future. Who will lead? Who will lead the countries? Will they be able to balance the survival of their own populations with the needs of the globe? Will we see more conservative ego backlash if the asks for climate are too large?

New technologies are being created all the time. I suspect in the next 10 years some kind of fungi will replace most single use plastics, more and more cities are going to go green and promote walking, cycling, the bus etc... More and more people are going plant based, new technologies are popping up and we new have 'New Power' with the internect which means social movements can happen AT ONCE, in many countries all around the world. The problem is, can we even agree on what we are seeing? It's impossible to measure what is going to happen as new platforms are being created and trust in the social sphere is more and more eroding... This is all just projection and thought ultimately. Just concepts and ideas. But, for my life purpose I have to try to fit it into the bigger picture.

I wish I could use a psychedelic to go suuuuuper meta... I wish the universal intelligence could use me as a vessel for this new age ahahah... They will at least help me grow as a person into some more wise and loving. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Thought Art

[Shmurda]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

A few degrees rise will not end any civilization.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I do think you're being lazy with your arguments here but hey you've got a lot on I guess. 

By the way thank you for doing what you do. Ironically I wouldn't have had this debate with you if you weren't first my teacher and encouraged me to open my mind a few years ago. 

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, Shmurda said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I do think you're being lazy with your arguments here but hey you've got a lot on I guess. 

By the way thank you for doing what you do. Ironically I wouldn't have had this debate with you if you weren't first my teacher and encouraged me to open my mind a few years ago. 

Yes, always so much love and appreciation for Leo! Love you Leo. You inspire me everyday. You are my hero, tbh. I want to thank you and the universe by serving humanity in a positive way.

We don't need to agree or always get along to appreciate one another.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Thought Art

[roar]

@Arcangelo Are you dead already?

[Leo Gura]

To be clear, none of the things I said here are absolute truth. These are just my best guesses.

[voxun]

Last week we had a catastrophic flood here in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany. I never imagined it would be possible for a flood to reach to the 1st floor of a house but this is exactly what happened.

Apparently this could have been caused by the slowing down of the gulfstream. So the weather moves slower and stays more in one area. Like this we had up to 150m² of rain in one area which is insane! As a comparison this is more then double of what we would normally get during an entire month. This has not happened before as far we know in our local history.

Is this caused by climate change? The scientists seem to think it is. 

One thing I feel is that as a society we probably consume to much.

They are clearing debris now as we speak. They use a 5 km stretch of freeway to bring all of the garbage (electronics, funiture, vehicles, etc...). This freeway is already full right now just from the garbage in one area.

So much stuff we have. Hopefully we will be able to adapt and live a bit more in balance with nature. Creating less pollution and limiting our garbage.

Edited July 23, 2021 by voxun

[tsuki]

Excuse the sarcasm and irony (his name is literally Green), this is the rundown of what can happen to us.

Edited July 23, 2021 by tsuki

[roar]

@Leo Gura Nice to see you're learning a little humbleness.  Your guesses are way off.

[Preety_India]

Just now, roar said:

@Leo Gura Nice to see you're learning a little humbleness.  Your guesses are way off.

Why ?

 

[impulse9]

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by impulse9

[abundance]

I find Paul Beckwith to be an excellent source when it comes to understanding climate change

 

 

 

I don't think many people realize just how severe the climate crisis is. We're tracking climate scientists worst case scenario and we technically haven't even reached 1.5C yet. 

 

[roar]

@Preety_India Our dear Leo is living in an artificial "city" in the middle of the desert, where he would be dead pretty quick, if it wasn't for all the tech he is surrounded by.  He's views are lofty, unattached to REAL reality, his just online and in fake Las Vegas, Murika.  His guesses are way off.  We are already in the room full of shit and fans.  I live off and in nature in the extreme arctic.  Things are more pronounced and immediate here.  It's been quite obvious for 20 years already, that this will be bad.  And now we are here.  Good luck too you all