How can nonduality possibly "be"

[Adodd]

Ive gotten into Sri ramana maharshi and h9s teachings lately. nto I can quote the greates yogis and could explain it well with pretty words to others if I wanted to. Ive read the books. Blah blah it all does me no good really. How can reality not be a subject-object reality? I am thinking to much I know but I havent been able to think about anything else for a few days. What is my sense of self than? My sense of self doesnt fit in with this at all. And this sense of seld is undeniable even when deep in meditation...

On the bright side, I am motivated to start a kriya yoga practice now which i have been procrastinating about for months.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Adodd

[impulse9]

Well here's the thing. Your mind is the divider itself, it is your mind which divides things into halves. You have to rise above your mind to see this, which is mind-bogglingly paradoxical when you think about it (of course it's only paradoxical when you THINK about it, so again you're dividing )

[Adodd]

@impulse9 hmm. Gonna have to THINK about that ??

[Moksha]

33 minutes ago, Adodd said:

How can reality not be a subject-object reality?

What if there are different dimensions of reality?

In relative reality, there are separate subjects and objects. There are causes and effects. It is a tidy Newtonian universe, never mind that it starts to fray around the edges at extremes. When you push the universe to its limits, macrocosmically or microcosmically, you see relativity for what it is. Einstein realized this, as have quantum physicists and astrophysicists following in his wake.

In ultimate reality, there is no separation. The subject is the object. Consciousness is the incomprehensible uncaused cause.

People bash their heads against the conceptual wall until they are bloody, refusing to relent until they "understand". Eventually, if they are lucky, they directly realize the truth. And when they do, they inevitably laugh. 

[Adodd]

@Moksha Have you realized this truth?

[Nahm]

How can nonduality possibly "be"…

It.    Can’t. 

[Moksha]

@Adodd I have laughed 

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Adodd said:

How can reality not be a subject-object reality? 

Love/Infinity is whatever you make of it.  When you stop making anything of it, it is itself. 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

How can reality not be a subject-object reality?

The real question is, how could it be dual?

It's duality which contradicts itself and makes no sense.

[Thought Art]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The real question is, how could it be dual?

It's duality which contradicts itself and makes no sense.

From my western paradigm and growing up it seems that most people feel the opposite. With all the dual how could it be non-dual?

But, they miss the point 

[Anahata]

Becauase 'it' has no BEginning.

 

 

 

[Adodd]

On 7/21/2021 at 5:23 PM, Moksha said:

@Adodd I have laughed 

As have I.

Have you directly realized this truth?

[Adodd]

On 7/21/2021 at 5:14 PM, Nahm said:

How can nonduality possibly "be"…

It.    Can’t. 

I hope to, one day, understand.

[Adodd]

@Leo Gura

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The real question is, how could it be dual?

It's duality which contradicts itself and makes no sense.

If I said anything right now besides "I don't know" I would be lying. I find myself stuck in the middle lately and don't know what the fuck is really going on anymore?

[Mason Riggle]

10 hours ago, Adodd said:

I hope to, one day, understand.

Nonduality (Oneness) is always the case, only it doesn't seem that way.   This is because in order for 1 thing to seem like anything requires duality.  (try describing a cup without duality. How does a cup seem to you? How could you describe it without duality?  If it seems light in color, that only has meaning relative to 'dark'. If it's a big cup, this is only relative to small, etc..    Reality SEEMS dual, because the very act of SEEMING itself requires duality.  Without (imagined) duality, reality can't seem like anything. 

Reality can not be 'dual', because there is only one reality.   Whatever there is, is reality, so there can't be anything 'else'.  Reality SEEMS dual, however, because that's how SEEMING works.  SEEMING is like how Reality describes itself to itself. It's how Reality 'knows itself'. 

Consider your arm for a moment.. you can look at your arm and think, here is 1 arm.. but you could also see this 1 arm as 'a hand and a wrist and an elbow, etc.. but notice that these distinctions are rather arbitrary and relative.. where does the hand end and the wrist begin? There really is no separation between the two, other than the arbitrary separation we assign it.. We could say that the arm (nondual) is made of 2 parts (dual). 'the hand' and 'everything that's not the hand'. 

The arm IS one thing.. the whole arm.. but it SEEMS like two things: the hand, and that which is not the hand. 

The same is True for reality.. it's one thing, seeming like many things.   It SEEMS like there is a tree, and that which is not a tree.. but there really is no separation other than arbitrary relative (imaginary) separation.  Reality is one big system. 

The inside of a cup and the outside of a cup seem like two things, but they are both 'the cup'. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Moksha]

@Adodd Yes, and the direct realization is what leads to the laughter. All the unnecessary suffering  and angst is seen for what it is. After your eyes open, life becomes less serious.

[mandyjw]

13 hours ago, Adodd said:

@Leo Gura

If I said anything right now besides "I don't know" I would be lying. I find myself stuck in the middle lately and don't know what the fuck is really going on anymore?

You're exactly where you should be then.

"We dance round in a ring and suppose, But the Secret sits in the middle and knows." -Robert Frost

Maybe it's not that you need to actually get anywhere but drop the sense that you're stuck, that you don't get it or have to get it. 

[Adodd]

@Moksha

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

@Adodd Yes, and the direct realization is what leads to the laughter. All the unnecessary suffering  and angst is seen for what it is. After your eyes open, life becomes less serious.

Sounds beautiful. How did you expand your consciousness to the point of this direct realization? Yes I have listened to Leo talk about some practices that can help. What did you do? Something different? Meditation? Psychedelics? Just curious.

You say that afterwards life is different. So when you had this realization you kept it permanently and it was NOT a fleeting experience? I have had experiences where I would think "AHA I KNOW THE TRUTH NOW! THIS IS IT!" And within hours it's gone and I am speaking of it in the past tense.?

Edited July 23, 2021 by Adodd

[Mason Riggle]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

 

"We dance round in a ring and suppose, But the Secret sits in the middle and knows." -Robert Frost

?

[Moksha]

56 minutes ago, Adodd said:

Sounds beautiful. How did you expand your consciousness to the point of this direct realization? Yes I have listened to Leo talk about some practices that can help. What did you do? Something different? Meditation? Psychedelics? Just curious.

You say that afterwards life is different. So when you had this realization you kept it permanently and it was NOT a fleeting experience? I have had experiences where I would think "AHA I KNOW THE TRUTH NOW! THIS IS IT!" And within hours it's gone and I am speaking of it in the past tense.?

The journey is unique for each of us. For me, it was the culmination of decades of suffering that finally ripened me to the point where I was ready to fall from the tree. Many of us have a series of awakenings, followed by periods of sleep. From what I have seen, the more intense the awakening, the greater the risk that it will be followed by a commensurately harrowing dark night of the soul. The ego doesn't die easily, and the closer it comes to its demise, the fiercer it fights.

When I directly realized my ultimate nature as Consciousness, and that I no longer needed to suffer, it was profound and enduring. The awakening was followed by 7 months of effortless bliss. I knew that there was still work to be done on dissolving my attachments, but I saw everything through new eyes. My entire lifestyle and my relationships changed, for the better. I remember a conversation with my mom where I told her that I no longer suffered, and we laughed, knowing what my life had been like before.

Sadly, the honeymoon came to a grinding halt, and my ego was back with a vengeance. Still, I knew what I had directly seen. It just was no longer effortless. That was when the real work began. I talked the spiritual work recently, here.