Unknowability

[Leo Gura]

@tsuki The deeper thing you're missing is that what you see is literally what is True. Everything else is fantasies.

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

There is not A thing that is preventing you from seeing the back of your head. It's just not possible. And the "limitation of seeing" is a complete contradiction in and of itself. You suggesting here that seeing should be other than what it is. You see?

So how can one honestly say that something exists, if it cannot be experienced? How can one say that limitations exist?

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

We're on the same page here. Alright.

So let's take another "concrete instance" of limitation, which is any limitation of experience.
For example, let's take limitations of sight. As you look into your hand deeply:

• you can experience some nuance, but you cannot see the atoms with your bare eyes.
• also, you can use peripheral vision and defocus from your hand and see the arm, its background, etc, but you cannot see the back of your head.

Do these concrete instances of the abstraction called "limit" exist, since you CANNOT experience them?
Conversely, is the experience itself limited in any way whatsoever, and if it is, then how can you experience that limitation?

I’m tempted to call this mind games but it could not be resisted by me either, but alas...

Here’s the truth as brightly as it can shine in words it seems: #1. there is literally nothing missing, and #2. that #1 implies nothing at all. There is only absolute, and absolutely nothing matters. Nothing. This means nothing, and especially does not mean there’s nothing for you to do. Or not do.

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@tsuki The deeper thing you're missing is that what you see is literally what is True. Everything else is fantasies.

Then limitations don't exist. Period. I am not a finite being. I literally create the whole goddamn universe with my eyes because I want to and it manifests exactly how I want it.

[tsuki]

14 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Is experience itself limited in any way whatsoever, and if it is, then how can you experience that limitation?

Does any sage reading this topic dare to answer the above question?

Alternatively, do things that CANNOT be experienced, whatsoever, exist? If yes, how can you honestly answer such a question without damaging your integrity? How is it not a belief?

Edited July 21, 2021 by tsuki

[tsuki]

9 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I’m tempted to call this mind games but it could not be resisted by me either, but alas...

I am not trolling if that's what you're implying. I am genuinely bothered by these questions recently.

[The0Self]

Just now, tsuki said:

I am not trolling if that's what you're implying. I am genuinely bothered by these questions recently.

Lol. Wasn’t implying that at all. I’m surprised you’d recognize it as such, which means you almost certainly missed the point.

[ZzzleepingBear]

Just now, tsuki said:

So how can one honestly say that something exists, if it cannot be experienced? How can one say that limitations exist?

You say anything with words to imply impossible things. And what cannot be be experienced is of no concern. Since you can only ask questions from a place of experience. In this case, thoughts about abstractions.

Limitations doesn't exist as an independent thing. It is a recognition or acknowledgement of an apparent boundery, that applies to something. An added thought if you will.

[tsuki]

Just now, The0Self said:

I’m surprised you’d recognize it as such, which means you almost certainly missed the point.

16 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

Limitations is a suggestive word for you to come to acknowledge and acceptance something at some level. Inorder to be able to take a stepp back and gain clarity.

@The0Self  The point was that I am being played by my own mind, which is a possibility that I am open to given what I'm currently grappling with. Acceptance of chronic disease.

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@The0Self  The point was that I am being played by my own mind, which is a possibility that I am open to given what I'm currently grappling with. Acceptance of chronic disease.

I feel you. Who is being played by their own mind, exactly? Who feels they need to accept? Isn’t everything already accepted? Otherwise why would it be this?

That might be too far away, but it doesn’t have to be. Nothing has to be.

Edited July 21, 2021 by The0Self

[tsuki]

7 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

You say anything with words to imply impossible things. And what cannot be be experienced is of no concern. Since you can only ask questions from a place of experience. In this case, thoughts about abstractions.

Limitations doesn't exist as an independent thing. It is a recognition or acknowledgement of an apparent boundery, that applies to something. An added thought if you will.

@ZzzleepingBear First, you are saying that what cannot be experienced is of no concern, and then you ASSUME that boundaries are apparent. In truth, you don't know whether they are in the domain od things that cannot be experienced, or are an illusion. That is unknowable.

Edited July 21, 2021 by tsuki

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I feel you. Who is being played by their own mind, exactly? Who feels they need to accept? Isn’t everything already accepted? Otherwise why would it be this?

Thank you. This was helpful.

I should close this thread to not spread more doubt in your pure hearts.

[The0Self]

7 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Thank you. This was helpful.

I should close this thread to not spread more doubt in your pure hearts.

I’d keep it open.

But anyway,

? 

Just remember the phrase:

Even still, this is it.

 

Don’t actually remember that as a belief. Not that there would actually be somebody believing something. Yeah words fail. Completely.

Edited July 21, 2021 by The0Self

[tsuki]

15 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

Since you can only ask questions from a place of experience.

I feel that this is the missing puzzle. I will ponder this some more.

[ZzzleepingBear]

Just now, tsuki said:

@ZzzleepingBear First, you are saying that what cannot be experienced is of no concern, and then you ASSUME that boundaries are apparent. In truth, you don't know whether they are in the domain od things that cannot be experienced. That is unknowable.

"What cannot be experienced" is a abstract way of saying nothing. Apparent limitations as in, what seems to be there regardles of my understanding. Limitations is what appears to be when the mind is in denial.

Have you ever experienced or come to know something "unknowable" in your life? Do you see the problem with a certain word in there?

[ZzzleepingBear]

3 minutes ago, tsuki said:

I feel that this is the missing puzzle. I will ponder this some more.

Good!

[mandyjw]

The color orange is a limitation, it reflects red and yellow and absorbs blue. All colors are inherent in white light yet white light is colorless, if lights are off, no orange. White light enters your pitch black pupil and, voila! Well anyway, that's all just a story, you are the light. 

If you go to a gallery and look at a painting you've never seen before, you stand as open awareness admiringly to this dance of white light, bouncing and absorbing. You are in your direct perception both knowing and unknowing. 

While color is limitation and separation of white light, the magic of it is only possible because there is no separation. To the artist these colors (limitations) are not limitations but freedom and joy. The bystander at the gallery looking at a painting by some long dead artist is also the Artist. If they were not, they could not see it. 

Voila! 

The reveal, the plot twist, the surprise, the seeing itself (that's what voila means in French, see!)  are only possible thanks to knowing and unknowing essentially being the same white light. Light doesn't look like anything until itself, it's self illuminating but only perceivable when it falls on something for someone. Still always ever self illuminating, but with a twist. 

[tsuki]

Roses are red,

The sky is blue,

I don't know colors,

But neither do you.

 

(My best shot at poetry, since we've entered the arts department)

 

Anyways, I'm still pondering the clue about not asking questions about things I have no experience of.

Edited July 21, 2021 by tsuki

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Nahm So, seem to be saying that things that are not experienced do not exist. Fair enough, so let me present you with a riddle that destroys me:

Experience is limited. I cannot see the back of my head. I also cannot see the thing that prevents me from seeing the back of my head. I cannot experience the limitation of seeing. So, limitation of seeing does not exist. It is a concept that does not correspond with anything that is real. And yet, the back of my head does not exist. Get it? It makes no goddamn  sense whatsoever.

I am not rejecting it because it makes no sense, I am just expressing the fact that it feels like I'm losing it. I don't know what limitation is, and I've been literally banging my head against it my whole life ?

A riddle is a question, not a statement. You can say you are asking a question when you’re actually making a statement, but you will feel the discord of this. No longer making statements while believing you’re asking questions… and being direct rather than indirect… and just asking sincere, articulated straightforward questions… will resolve this for you.  

If that seems zen, riddler-ish or vague, I’ll say it this way: this is existential rumination. This has absolutely nothing to do with existentialism, and it is a game of pretend to believe it does. This has only to do with your desires, and your doubt, and your closing of the gap between the two. 

There is chronic disease, and there is chronic dis ease. The body & health therein are not separate of focus on thoughts, and most relevant, aversion from accountability, responsibility, and properly addressing conditioning and karma. Do not pretend aversion and focusing on one resolves the other (disease & dis ease). It does not. Notice the lengths people go to in the avoidance of the addiction to existential rumination & discordant conceptualization. Notice the dualistic relationship therein, that is, how it’s playing out in one’s life, and in one’s health & well being. See how you create it. Be willing to. 

Text is not supplemental for actuality, for an actual face to face conversation. Text, like book, and videos, is void of substance. Rarely do I directly self promote sessions here. You’ve been suffering too long with this. If what was said here is still not clear, book a session. This matter will be clear, and this suffering will cease permanently, in 90 minutes. 

[Mason Riggle]

Experience = Limitation

Infinity/Nothing can not be 'experienced' because it is 'without limits'.   Infinity/Nothing has no size. Nothing/Infinity has no shape. Infinity/Nothing has no color. Nothing/Infinity has no smell. Infinity/Nothing has no density. Nothing/Infinity has no boundaries. No qualities.  It can't be 'defined'. It can't be 'described'. It can't be 'experienced'.  Infinity/Nothing can't 'be'. 

define - verb - mark out the boundary or limits of.

describe - verb - give an account in words of (someone or something), including all the relevant characteristics, qualities, or events.


How could you tell that an apple was an apple, if you couldn't 'distinguish' anything from anything else? 

Limitation = Experience. 

Experiencing = Being = Seeming = Dreaming = Imagining = Creating 


Reality (Infinity/Nothing) 'experiences itself' (creates itself, dreams itself, limits itself, is itself).   It pretends (imagines) to be separate from itself (limited) so that it can know (be) itself. 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Mason Riggle