Partnership - is "second chance" a good idea?

[Lubomir]

Hello community, long time no see

 

So I have a question on you. But first let me briefly explain my story:

I'm with my gf about 2 years now, we live together, both of us is finishing our university studies (26/25 years), so we are still young and naive - that is why I feel need to ask more experienced people for this. 

 

What happened? My gf have a friend, her ex boyfriend. Last week she ask me, if she can go to a one day trip with him and spend the night in his apartma after that. I said "sure, no problem, thank you for asking". I did that in the mindset in which I knew that she still feel something for him, because we talked about it. But she always refered to him more like brother (I love him like a sister can love her brother she always said). It also wasnt the first time, that she went with him to do something, as friends sometimes does, right? 

So I was fine with that, knowing that she have some important history with him, that she cares about him, that she wants him to be happy and I don't want to stand between these feelings, as they are no thread for me, for our relationship. 

But I was wrong. 

Aftet she came back, everything was normal - she told me about the trip, that it was awesome. She told me that her ex looked much better then before, that he was happy and that she felt something has changed in him and she is happy for that. 

I felt a bit jealous in terms of "hey, I want to have such an amazing experience with you too", so I decided that we will go on a trip of our own - you can see that I was compering to him at this moment. 

The trip went well and just the next day she said that she wants to go to her hometown alone, she needed to pick-up her new passport, because she is traveling to different country in a month (for 4 months). 

She stayed there few days and when she came back, we went for a drink outside and was planning to go to the cinema. But at the second we got our first drink, she told me that "I was cuddling with (her ex) when I was with him and I need to tell you that", that, kinda shocked me, but at the same time not too much. She in the second breath added, that she was touching his penis during that, but nothing more happened, not even a kiss. That, didnt added much more feelings to me. 

Now I'm 2 days after the conservation, in which I told her, that I feel distrust to her, the morning after I couldnt lay beside her, it was unpleasant for me, knowing that our relationship isnt so special as I though and I want him to be. 

We talked, I wasnt mad at her at any point, she described me how much she love him and that it was so strong feeling in that situation, that she wasnt able to resist. She also kept mentioning, that even though she love him, she most importantly love me and that she wants to be with me, not him and that I don't understand her love to him. I told her, that she is correct, I don't and I won't. But what I know, is that I don't want to have another person in our relationship, taking parts of what is between me and her and what is special for me. 

We were both crying at some point, but she were crying more, especially when I told her, that I don't feel the trust that I felt to her before and I don't want to tell her what she can and can't do, so I don't want to restrict her love to him in any way, BUT, I don't want to be in a relationship with a third person.

She understand that. And right after that she send him a message, where she apologyze to him for what happened and that it can't happen again. She told me that.

I decided to take it as a lesson, because I was probably giving more attention to my work then to my gf last month, so I understand that something like this could occur and that it wasn't her plan to let it happen.

I decided to build the trust to her again, because, even though she did what she did, I love her. 

 

I feel like something similar must happen in every long-term relationship, or not? Do i behave like a fool? What would you do? 

 

Thank you <3

[flowboy]

Hey Lubomir,

 

You are very sweet. But this girl needs to grow up and learn to respect you.

She should not be hanging out with her ex she still has feelings for.

She should have cut him out of her life the moment she started seeing you. That's the respectful thing to do.

Instead, she's making excuses for still seeing him, even touching his penis, and asking YOU to understand??

Fuck. That.

You are being too nice. You are not in touch with your anger. It seems like you are hoping that if you keep being nice, no trouble will arise.

Well, trouble has arisen, my friend.

You have just shown her that she can disrespect the relationship and be dishonest and unloyal to you, without you even getting mad. You will just be with her and love her whatever she does, a sweet harmless boy, a soft cushion to land on after some hot secret sex with the ex.

This is only going to get worse, unless you find your balls.

Edited July 19, 2021 by flowboy

[flowboy]

Concrete action steps: kick her out of your place, and tell her to come back when she knows what she wants. Demand at least two weeks apart for her to think about things. If she runs back to her ex, then good, then she's not ready and the sooner you know it, the better.

Only accept her back, after the cool off period, if she literally begs you. She should be on her knees, apologizing and proving to you that she cut contact with all other fuckboys.

No? Then goodbye.

[Raptorsin7]

@Lubomir Doesn't it bother you that your girlfriend doesn't respect you enough to stay loyal to you?

Seems like a recipe for disaster if you commit to a woman like this.

[Spiral]

She doesn’t respect you.
 

Not just because of the cuddles and dick touching but also because she spends time with someone she likes in none platonic way. 
 

I would forgive and break up with her. If she comes back begging for me to come back for long enough I’d give her another chance. If she doesn’t then why even be with her to begin with. If she misbehaves and get no consequences she’ll do it again and more seriously in the future. 

[tsuki]

At the risk of sounding like I'm blaming it onto you, hear this out:

Even reading your story gets me mildly pissed and humiliated for you. You are acting as if everything was okay, so she thinks that this sort of behavior is okay. Is it okay? Is it REALLY, or are you afraid of losing her, so you will let that one pass?

Remember that big fuck-ups are sometimes made of small slip-ups over a long time.

[flowboy]

Honestly, you're probably going to have to break up with her and start over. Learn to respect yourself this time.

I know it's hard.

[Peter Miklis]

You know, I understand that relationship can get complicated, there can be a lot of grey areas where you're not sure how to act. So, it's easy for us to speculate, and give you advice, when none of us is in your situation. It is you after all who's gonna have to do something about this, not us.

However, I just feel like people should develop this sort of "killer instinct" so to speak, and not matter how long they've been together, they should tolerate no bullshit. So if I was you, I'd act from a position of strength, not weakness. The best you can do, honestly, is to tell her to fuck off and never contact you again. Literaly. Make sure she sees the anger in you. And then, you'll never contact her again. It's cruel, but you know what, some people need to be taught some respect. And that's just the truth of it.

[Tangerinedream]

It all depends on how you feel about it? does the situation feel resolved or unresolved? do you feel differently about her now? I think it's normal that something like this might come up at some point during a long term relationship.  If she is sorry and knows she made a mistake and you can move on from it then you can try and start over with eachother.  set some new boundries, so she understands that if something like that happens again that will be it for you. It depends on if she is aware she made a mistake and is willing to change to move forward.  If nothing changes then time to move on. 

really understand your feelings around it though, don't stay in the relationship and let resentment or jealousy build up.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Tangerinedream

[Jacob Morres]

I have been in a similar situation 

Self respect is a huge thing for me now. What would a self respecting decision for you be here? 

My spidey senses really doesn't like this whole situation. Super triggered by it too. Sorry for that having happened to you. For me it was so rough when it happened. 

Good luck

Edited July 19, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Lubomir]

Thank you! 

I'm going to bring it up again and make her to cut him off forever, or she can go to him, I don't care.

I had similar situation with her before (when she were flirting with other guys) and I resolve it the hard way "Fuck off or respect me" and she stopped doing that and came to me. I don't know how I could forget that huh? Sweet little words... 

 

Will let you know how  that went. 

[tsuki]

Let me clarify the terms ffs. 2 years is NOT a long term relationship. You are just chicks that barely cracked the egg.

[Peter Miklis]

41 minutes ago, Lubomir said:

I had similar situation with her before (when she were flirting with other guys) and I resolve it the hard way "Fuck off or respect me" and she stopped doing that and came to me.

So you're saying this kind of situation happened before? Damn dude? that's a no brainer then. Cut her off indefinitely.

[Bando]

Hate to say this but the relationship was going downhill long before she asked you if she could go on a trip with her ex alone, a girl thats into would not want to jeopardize her relationship with you in any way, you must set the frame that you don't tolerate disloyalty from the beginning so you don't end up in situations like this. 

Also they banged bro, a girl doesn't spend the night at her ex's house touch his penis and not bang you should consider exiting the relationship and go to somebody who values you more before this turns ugly.

[Jacob Morres]

Have to agree with @Bando here, I don't feel she was honest about what they did. Looking back to my own rel it was so obvious that they did way more.

Problem was I trusted so hard, but theres def a distinction between being trustful and being naive and also justifying/rationalizing certain behaviors by others 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[flowboy]

If this happened before, get out. If you don't, then you confirm that it was a lie when you said you don't tolerate it. You do tolerate it. You are tolerating it right now, by allowing her to stay with you.

[Roy]

Do you want a monogamous relationship together, or not?

Idk what the exact dynamics or details are other than what you've said, but I wouldn't be able to trust her again. It's one thing to be open and trusting like we all should be in relationships, but it sounds like she's been playing you to have 2 relationships based off of all the space and freedom you've been allowing her. Which isn't what you want when dealing with a confused girl like this who doesn't know what she wants and is talking about love for you but ALSO that "something changed in him". There is a fine line here where it may seem like you're operating from a place of love affording her these kinds of freedoms, but it's actually coming from insecurity and fear of losing her. What she needs is to be given an ultimatum so she can learn her place. Clear decisions are what needs to be offered so all parties can move forward in a way that's best for them.

Don't listen to what women are saying to you, rather watch what they do. Consider that you gave her so much space and had such open boundaries that even when given the chance she couldn't restrain herself from going to spend not only a day with him but also spend the night?! Then she tells you that they were cuddling and she was touching him? Let me tell you what happened, and sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but she is telling you that not just to be "honest" but out of guilt and to get it off her shoulders that she doesn't really respect your relationship enough to control herself, her feelings, or her impulses.

Her also saying "nothing else happened" is to comfort you. It's virtually certain she has been fucking him anytime they've seen each other.

If you truly really do love her and want to just be with her with no 3rd person around the relationship, you need to set a hard boundary; No more guy friends, no more talking or seeing her ex ever again, period. Or you break up with her. No discussion.

I think it's too late though, and you need to learn a lesson and move on. I don't mean this to be insulting, but just to give it to you straight because I really want to help you - you come off as really naïve in all this.

You deserve someone who totally respects you and is clear about what they want. Cut her off, take your time, and then go find that person where stuff like this won't happen again.

[Lubomir]

Thank you all for your responses and thank you so much @Roy especially. 

Even though it may sound naive, I do believe her that nothing more happened. I'm not proud of it, but yesterday morning I went through her phone (without her knowing it) and they were talking about it - there was nothing more, than she said to me. 

 

But it doesn't matter now, we had pretty rough day yesterday as I went with all of it out. 

I was on my way out of the relationship. When she get it, she started begging me and promised me that it won't happen ever again. 

Sweet little words... 

I said that it will, that it is only a matter of time and I don't want to be in such shit ever again. 

She asked, in tears, what I want. 

I said that she will cut him off, completely, won't see him ever again. 

She stood there, in complete silence, looking at me for a few seconds and said "done, if you really wish that".

You will tell him that right now. 

She did that. 

 

Then came such a strong vacuum between us. It feeels like everything was destroyed in that day.

I needed to get outside, so I went out, thinking. When I came back, I could see it in her face that she spend the whole time waiting on me, if I come back.

So, where this is going? 

We were talking the whole night, she was crying a lot, she didn't stop even when I get to sleep, because I was already so tired of it. 

I don't know. She had a good point in our conversation though. She said that she started to feel that since I got my new job I changed a lot. That I started to take her as granted, using her for sex, food and so on. Not showing her the respect of what she's doing for me - not in action, but only with words. And that she feels like I'm doing the same as she did. 

THESE THINGS CAN'T BE COMPARED I said. But I will make my best to not do it. Because there is some truth in it. 

Of course that she was looking for something to justify her behavior, we, as a people, do that all the time.

I feel like I should give it some time to settle down, but I also know that it is hard to not fall for some bullshit again. 

What do you think might help me with that? She is going abroad in a month for 4 months straight.

I think it's awesome to hear your opinions on this, since you can see it from higher ground than me. But also, you don't know everything, so I can't take it as a clear way to go.

So my plan is to let the dust settle down for 2 days and see what will remain. If we can build something upon it, good, if not, good bye. 

I will keep you updated, since It might be easy for me to continue even though it will happen again. ("You are doing it right now Lubomír "- I can hear you saying - maybe) 

Thank you

[Eph75]

@Lubomir

Ultimatums are difficult, and desires are powerful.

Ultimatums usually work as quick but short term/temporary shift in behaviors. The desires usually kicks back in as the the ripple effects slowly fade away, and those autonomous drives that created problems gets back into control. 

Change has to come from within, not from external motivators and ultimatums which essentially threats.

Of course that doesn't mean that change can't happen, but I do think that ultimatums should be used, with care, as such short term fuel needed to drive long term change in both of you.

It also can mark a shared milestone where active work is agreed upon, creating the change needed as a mutual endeavor. 

The typical thing that happens after an ultimatum has been presented, is that the one giving the ultimatum continues doing what they did before the ultimatum, possibly with increased levels of mistrust, suspiciousness, worry, and even resentment, and the one being presented the ultimatum switches into a submissive and accommodating behavior.

That submissiveness is often confused with being apologetic, which it's not, it's just a natural reaction when being under attack and not having the moral or strength to "win" an altercation. In that sense very animalistic in nature. 

Apologies aren't words and such submissiveness acting as an impact cushion. Genuine apologies are permanent changes in behaviors based on the realization that one was doing something that goes against how you are or how you want to be/become. 

It's easy to say that the one person did something wrong and that person needs to change, but reality and relationship dynamics are much more complex than that.

The dynamics between you guys have ended you up where you did, so there's still something in that dynamics that needs to change.

A relationship needs to be actively invested into equally by both. 

Lack of such shared investment, even without obvious dysfunctions, results in a slow decline in relationship quality that becomes harder and harder to save.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Eph75

[Peter Miklis]

@Lubomir Good luck bro, hope everything works out for you