I stopped caring about appearance of girls

[Karmadhi]

I used to be very insecure about my appearance for many many years.

A way i found to help correct it outside of self-love, building your value as a man etc etc was to stop caring about appearance in general for other humans.

Whatever you judge on others, is a reflection of judging yourself. I noticed this on other people too, the people that comment the most about others appearances are usually the most insecure about their own appearance. Therefore, if i would judge a girl's worth as a partner or human being based on any amount on her looks then i would also feel like i am judging my worth based on my looks. I cannot go and say "guys judge girls based on looks and that is okay because girls care about personality", that mindset does not work with me. I tried it. If i screen girls harshly based on looks i will feel like i am getting screened harshly based on looks and that will make me somewhat insecure. Now, nuance here please. Of course i have some basic level of looks i care about a female and i expect females to have some basic level of appearance for guys. I tend to be around a 5.5-6/10 generally, so i do not care that much about looks above that for a girl.

Now i am not saying that i will not try to hit on girls that are very hot or anything like that. I will hit on everyone i want to, however it will not purely based on looks and the value of the girl in my eyes will not be influenced by looks much. How happy the person makes me and how compatible we are and how much we enjoy each other company is more important indicator.

So basically, when i see a girli i see her appearance of course but do not put that much value in it. Personality over looks i guess. Looks matter more as a threshold thing. Energy vibe compatibility values etc are more important. I am talking about relationships and stuff here. One night stands clearly differ.

What do you guys think? Is this a massive cope or does it have some usefulness to it as a mindset. It's purpose is basically to make me give 0 shits about my appearance after i take care of myslef because of it is not important much anyway. For this attitude to be embodied i should practice it myself on others otherwise it will be too much cognitive dissonance.

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Emerald]

This is a very important insight here that you're sharing...

The way that a man judges women... the judgment will always rebound inward to himself because he also has an Anima (the inner woman in every man).

You can look on this forum (and at the world in general) and find that the men who have the most objectifying, bitter, and mean-spirited views toward women have much lower self-esteem, especially in regards to dating. And this is because they project that women are also viewing them with the same objectification and mean-spiritedness. This you're noticing about yourself. 

And of course, the Anima, which is a large part of the male personality will take the direct blow of the misogyny. And the man's self-esteem will take a huge dive because man is also quite a bit woman. So, the sword of bitterness, devaluation, and objectification that he stabs toward women also stabs him in his feminine place bringing up Shadow Feminine feelings of bitterness and pettiness. 

And likewise, men who are the most secure, tend to have more normal and humanizing views toward women. And they don't see women as pornographic demon angels up on a pedestal objectifying them and judging their masculinity and their worth as a human being... because they are not judging women's inherent worth based on her looks/femininity. 

Also, there is nothing bad about being attracted to women who are your looks-match. In fact, that's quite normal. Most couples don't have a significant disparity in terms of their looks. They even did an experiment, where they put numbers on sticky notes on everyone's heads and had them try to match up. And most people matched up with those who are closest in number, even though they couldn't see their own number. So, it's quite normal. 

It's just that there's a lot of pressure to be the guy who has all the hot women... mostly not even for the pleasure of the experience but for the status in the eyes of other men. So, being with a woman of equal looks to you might create feelings of inadequacy in the eyes of other men. And this leads also to self-esteem issues, since you are expecting them (and often rightly so) to be judging your masculinity as inadequate. Men with low self-esteem tend to play off of one-another's insecurities about their own masculinity and success with women... which of course creates a cycle of bad feelings about themselves. Their judgments towards other men, also rebound inward towards themselves.

Basically, any judgment out will rebound as a judgment inward. So, one of the best ways to improve your self-esteem is to drop judgment and notice the humanity in all people and to view all people in a subjectifying way as opposed to an objectifying way. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Emerald

[Karmadhi]

@Emerald Yes very fair points. There is beauty in not just looks. 
Idk how someone can be super secure with their appearance while judging girls looks and placing their worth based on their looks. The cognitive dissonance would be unreal

[Harlen Kelly]

5 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Is this a massive cope

Most likely. 

5 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

It's purpose is basically to make me give 0 shits about my appearance

You will not care about your appearance if you start pulling attractive women with relative consistency because you will realize that you don't have to be that good-looking to reliably attract women. 

The solution is very simple: If you want to internalize the belief that your appearance is not an impediment for attracting women, become good at attracting them and you will subconsciously and naturally adopt that belief system. 

By the way, a good personality and psychological developement is not mutually exclusive with a high level of attractiveness. In other words, there are below average, average and above average women in terms of looks that have a good personality and are relatively self-actualized. 

[Preety_India]

 

I never stopped focusing on a guy's looks.

I'm just  kidding.

For me character of a guy is most valuable. It means a lot. Looks are secondary and don't mean much.

 

 

 

[Michael569]

15 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Personality over looks i guess. Looks matter more as a threshold thing. Energy vibe compatibility values etc are more important

I agree with you. Often when you look past looks and the true nature of the person's core & constitution is revealed the looks are often not appealing any longer if the core is rotten and dysfunctional. At the same time, I'm gonna say that even if the later was perfect without liking the look, I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with that person. As simple-minded as that sounds, looks is the most superficial thing but at the same time, you would not be able to sustain a relationship if you don't like your partner's face. It is just something that is close to impossible to bite through. 

A relationship has to be a harmony of physical, chemical and spiritual attraction with a good levels of sexual energy, empathy, understanding and compassion. Take one of those pieces out and the whole thing falls on your head. . 

My grandfather used to say "ya gonna look at that face you don't like for the next 60 years?" 

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

s simple-minded as that sounds, looks is the most superficial thing but at the same time, you would not be able to sustain a relationship if you don't like your partner's face. It is just something that is close to impossible to bite through. 

I never said looks do not matter at all. I said there is more to it and it is a threshhold thing.

12 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

The solution is very simple: If you want to internalize the belief that your appearance is not an impediment for attracting women, become good at attracting them and you will subconsciously and naturally adopt that belief system. 

Fair point however i cannot attract hot girls if i am insecure about my looks. It is a catch 22. I need full confidence and 0 insecurity about my looks if i want to attract them. Maybe in the future if i manage to attract hot girls  i will drop the belief i have right not but currently i think it is useful for my journey.

Plus i am a decent looking guy anyway. I am not ugly, i am quite fit (muscular and wide shoulders although bit short 5 8 or 172cm), dark skinned (for some it is a plus for some a minus) and around a 6/10 face. I have had girls find me attractive (although not a lot maybe like 1 out of every 10 or so) and therefore even i attract some girls i will just think it is because they found me cute and the belief about my looks importance will not change. Every time a girl was interested in me (some of those girls were legit attractive) i just thought i was because of my looks and maybe cuz i am relatively smart and friendly. 

So i think for now i will just use this belief and maybe will drop it in the future.

However since i do self actualization work i do not want my worth as a human being to be reduced to my appearance. Therefore i tend to not to do it for girls either, i find it quite cruel. If a girl is attractive enough for me and takes care of herself that is all i need looks wise.

12 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

By the way, a good personality and psychological developement is not mutually exclusive with a high level of attractiveness. In other words, there are below average, average and above average women in terms of looks that have a good personality and are relatively self-actualized. 

For sure. 

[Peter Miklis]

18 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, one of the best ways to improve your self-esteem is to drop judgment and notice the humanity in all people and to view all people in a subjectifying way as opposed to an objectifying way. 

What would it mean to look at people in a subjectifying way, as opposed to objectifying way? Putting personality above everything else?

[Gabith]

I begin to be a little more like you since this year (I've changed a lot since january, I don't see reality and people like before, I'm more positive, more loving and I finally love more myself).

Now I'm attracted to a lot of average women, I dont like extreme like anorexia or obesity but I'm quite open and I see beauty where my friends don't see it (her smile, her eyes, her attitude...) all of my friends care about is if she has a nice body (big breast enough, big ass... )

lol I'm happy I've changed now life seems more beautiful and "easy" (because I know that Reality is perfect and everything that is must be, so yes life is harsh sometimes but it seems more easy when you have a better connection with Reality and an another mindset / perspectives.

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

What would it mean to look at people in a subjectifying way, as opposed to objectifying way? Putting personality above everything else?

Basically seeing women as human first before any sexual meaning is applied and not determining a woman’s inherent value in relation to their sexual value to you.

To view someone as an object is to view them only as a vehicle for carrying out your own wishes. The person is seen only as a tool you can use.

To view someone as a subject is to view them as a whole person without regard to thinking about what they can do for you.

And those with a primarily objectifying mindset, will also see themselves through the same lens. They will see themselves as a tool for others’ desires and will question their ability to be a good enough tool.

[Peter Miklis]

@Emerald So it's basically the same as difference between needy and non needy perception of reality, I guess. The first one observes reality throught wanting to have it's needs met, while the latter tries to see reality as it is.

[Karmadhi]

@Gabith Great work man!

@Emerald Also to remove the desire for looks  so much makes you able to form better connections with people. Imagine you find a great average looking girl who you could have an amaizing relationship with but you choose not to date her because she is just not "hot enough" for you. Compatibility is more important than pure physical attraction if you want to date someone long term. Also, a vagina is a vagina regardless, it is the personality of the person that makes a specific vagina better (pardon my language). I hope this is not a colossal cope for me ahahahhaahha

[Peter Miklis]

12 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Also, a vagina is a vagina regardless, it is the personality of the person that makes a specific vagina better

I like the way you think haha? I mean, sure, there are girls hotter than others, but at the end of the day a vagina is vagina lol

[Harlen Kelly]

6 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

However since i do self actualization work i do not want my worth as a human being to be reduced to my appearance. Therefore i tend to not to do it for girls either, i find it quite cruel.

The attraction you feel for a woman and her worth as a person, those two components are orthogonal. You not being physically attracted to a woman has nothing to do with her worth as a human being, it simply means you are not attracted to her. 

Something else, regardless of how much self actualization work you do, if you are heterosexual you will find attractive women appealing. Being conscious does not mean you won't feel attraction for beautiful women. 

Last thing, you don't need ''0 insecurities'' to attract beautiful women. You are artificially creating an unattainable ideal you need to reach before becoming good with women which will only slow you down. Just go out regularly and get on the habit of pulling, you will get better over time.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Karmadhi]

@Lucas-fgm

8 minutes ago, Lucas-fgm said:

I stopped caring so much about looks too. But at the end of the day, I can't lie to myself and others and say that I stopped completely caring about appearance just so I can look somehow more enlightened

Nuance pleaseeeeeeeeeeee. I did not say i do not care at all, i said it is a THREASHHOLD THING!! Meaning after a certain level they are not that important anymore. For me over a 5/10 it does not matter much anymore.

40 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

You not being physically attracted to a woman has nothing to do with her worth as a human being, it simply means you are not attracted to her

You can be attracted to an okay looking girl, also females are not just attractive because of how they look. Vibe, personality etc can make you attracted to them. Yes, sure if you talk to them in a bar then that will not happen but if you talk to a girl from time to time, her personality will draw you in. Happened to me more than once.

41 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Last thing, you don't need ''0 insecurities'' to attract beautiful women. You are artificially creating an unattainable ideal you need to reach before becoming good with women which will only slow you down. Just go out regularly and get on the habit of pulling, you will get better over time.

If i feel insecure about my appearance i will not be able to flirt or pull or do anything non platonic. I tried it and couldnt. Now with this new mindset i automatically became more flirty.

[Gabith]

what is 5/10 lol

all this stuff is so relative

[Jacob Morres]

Ya I care way less than I used to as well. 

It's not that fulfilling. Like it's not even the good stuff of the relationship. 

The good shit is the depth part of the relationship 

But then again an analogy I thought was that it could be related to food. At the end of the day the taste of the food matters more I'd presume. But you'd also want food that looks good as well. But taste matters more 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Thought Art]

I've tried this whole 'It's the person not the appearance thing' and it just doesn't work for me. I can be your friend, and enjoy your company but if we are going to date, move in together and have sex then I have to be really into you. You need to turn me on.. Obviously looks aren't everything but they need to be there for me.

[Karmadhi]

@Gabith 5/10 for me.  Of course it is relative.

@Thought Art

12 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Obviously looks aren't everything but they need to be there for me.

I never said looks do not matter. I said it is threashhold thing. 

[Mason Riggle]

When I was like 19, I met a girl at my work and we quickly became close friends (I had just moved to a different state, and didn't really know anyone, and she was the first one who befriended me), but I didn't really find her attractive.  Her nose was too blunt, or round or whatever.. she had some extra pounds and I'd always been attracted to thinner girls, she didn't really dress in way I found attractive,.. 

but over time, as we got closer and closer, I began to find myself becoming more and more attracted to her physically.  After several weeks (I really don't recall the exact time frame), we started a romantic relationship, and I would say that I 'fell in love with her', and after a few months of being together, she appeared to me as the most beautiful woman I'd ever met.. I was so attracted to her, and found beauty in all of her curves, and blemishes, and uniqueness, etc.. (I still find her super attractive to this day, even though we went our separate ways and have separate lives, we remain friends.)

I guess my point is.. don't let a lack of physical attraction prevent you from pursuing a relationship with someone you connect with on an emotional and intellectual level. 

You'd be amazed at how true the saying 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' actually is. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Mason Riggle