Leo about the holocaust in the new episode

[Blackhawk]

He said "I'm not interested in arguing whether the holocaust happened or didn't happen. That's irrelevant."

I think he should have said that the holocaust did happen.

The holocaust is the most evil act in the history of mankind. Hell came to earth and millions of people suffered like never before.

So the seriousness and severity of the holocaust cannot be overstated. So it's wrong to leave even a small questionmark whether the holocaust happened or didn't happen.

Millions of people might watch the video.

[Blackhawk]

@Leo Gura

[Vynce]

The argument was about the structure of a fact, rather than the content of a specific fact. I think he took this radical example because he talked about structure vs. content so often that really wanted to make it clear now.

[Tim R]

@Blackhawk Leo didn't call the holocaust into question, what he meant by saying 

Quote

I'm not interested in arguing whether the holocaust happened or didn't happen. That's irrelevant.

is not that there is any question about the historical validity of the holocaust, but that the notion of "truth" in and of itself is something that is part of the social matrix. 

The social matrix is a culturally enforced sense of reality - that's the point he was trying to make. 

What people consider to be "true" is cultural consensus. It doesn't matter in the least what is considered to be true (as for example the holocaust) only the fact that "truth" itself is constructed. 

[Leo Gura]

Meta

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

6 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

He said "I'm not interested in arguing whether the holocaust happened or didn't happen. That's irrelevant."

I think he should have said that the holocaust did happen.

The holocaust is the most evil act in the history of mankind. Hell came to earth and millions of people suffered like never before.

So the seriousness and severity of the holocaust cannot be overstated. So it's wrong to leave even a small questionmark whether the holocaust happened or didn't happen.

Millions of people might watch the video.

   Was it the interpretation video? Well, that's another interpretation of that fact. And a fact is also an interpretation too. Depending on what zoom you're in, it will see, hear and feel differently. You could be zoomed out far enough to know an opinion is an interpretation, but not far enough to also see facts and hard evidence as interpretation. Also, some are so zoomed into the content of a box that even an opinion is treated as truth. The holocaust is a horrible event in itself. Zoom out, you see that the holocaust is part of many atrocities in WW2. Zoom out more, you also include past events like WW1, and so on with wars all the way back to ancient times. Also include going forward in time and see that wars such as the Vietnam war and Pacific war are also horrific as well. Keep going, and such events will eventually no longer have a hold over you.

[Blackhawk]

@Danioover9000 This one: 

 

27 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Keep going, and such events will eventually no longer have a hold over you.

Will no longer have a hold over me?...

And you think the holocaust is a interpretation?...

Whatever..

Edited July 18, 2021 by Blackhawk

[cookiemonster]

7 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

He said "I'm not interested in arguing whether the holocaust happened or didn't happen. That's irrelevant."

I think he should have said that the holocaust did happen.

The holocaust is the most evil act in the history of mankind. Hell came to earth and millions of people suffered like never before.

So the seriousness and severity of the holocaust cannot be overstated. So it's wrong to leave even a small questionmark whether the holocaust happened or didn't happen.

Millions of people might watch the video.

 

You sound pretty confident. Can you give the name of the gas that killed the most people?

[The0Self]

Green

I mean... Isn’t it a bit more shocking that you weren’t born from parents? The suggestion that the Holocaust maybe didn’t happen is obviously not on the level you’re thinking it’s on when in the same context it’s implied that your birth maybe didn’t happen.

Edited July 18, 2021 by The0Self

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

@Danioover9000 This one: 

 

Will no longer have a hold over me?...

And you think the holocaust is a interpretation?...

Whatever..

   If that's personal to you, go meta. If not, and you're not that bothered, don't. That simple.

   It is an interpretation, but realizing that is a whole other issue above your capacity.

   At least this user gets it.

4 hours ago, The0Self said:

Green

I mean... Isn’t it a bit more shocking that you weren’t born from parents? The suggestion that the Holocaust maybe didn’t happen is obviously not on the level you’re thinking it’s on when in the same context it’s implied that your birth maybe didn’t happen.

   Again, whole other level of understanding.

[cookiemonster]

Although I don't identify with any ethnicity these days, I do have a personal family interest in the holocaust which was the basis of plenty research about 15 years back. I would go out onto the streets and ask the simple question:-

"Do you believe in the holocaust?"

In general, the results were overwhelming."aBsoLutEly yEs."

But if given the question:-

"Can you name the top 5 extermination camps by number of people killed?"

*crickets*

All you would get was blank faces. Questions such as "Can you give the name of the gas that killed the most people?" would either be answered incorrectly, or not answered at all.

For me it proved that it is entirely possible for people to hold beliefs about a subject without actually knowing anything about it. Or in other words: Just because someone is technically and factually correct, doesn't mean that they are not brainwashed.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, cookiemonster said:

For me it proved that it is entirely possible for people to hold beliefs about a subject without actually knowing anything about it.

Did you really need to interview people about the Holocaust to understand that?

99% of the things you know you have no direct experience of.

You've never been to Antarctica. You have no idea if it even exists.

You never even experienced your own birth so it is nothing more than a belief based on hearsay.

QED.

[cetus]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You never even experienced your own birth so it is nothing more than a belief based on hearsay.

 

[cookiemonster]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Did you really need to interview people about the Holocaust to understand that?

 

Probably not, but it's a useful anecdote to demonstrate a point.

I was also a lot younger back then.

[Dodo]

7 hours ago, cookiemonster said:

Although I don't identify with any ethnicity these days, I do have a personal family interest in the holocaust which was the basis of plenty research about 15 years back. I would go out onto the streets and ask the simple question:-

"Do you believe in the holocaust?"

In general, the results were overwhelming."aBsoLutEly yEs."

But if given the question:-

"Can you name the top 5 extermination camps by number of people killed?"

*crickets*

All you would get was blank faces. Questions such as "Can you give the name of the gas that killed the most people?" would either be answered incorrectly, or not answered at all.

For me it proved that it is entirely possible for people to hold beliefs about a subject without actually knowing anything about it. Or in other words: Just because someone is technically and factually correct, doesn't mean that they are not brainwashed.

You are absolutely ridiculous 

Its as ridiculous as saying "Do you know what a beach is?" - Yes "Then tell me how many grains of sand there are on a beach". 

No, general knowledge is not about knowing all facts and figures about every event. 

Its really hard to take you serious with this kind of thinking. You have to be specifically interested in the topic to know such things and you present it as if everyone is supposed to know it and that not answering such a specific question proves something... It proves that you are talking out of the wrong hole ! 

[Dodo]

14 hours ago, The0Self said:

Green

I mean... Isn’t it a bit more shocking that you weren’t born from parents? The suggestion that the Holocaust maybe didn’t happen is obviously not on the level you’re thinking it’s on when in the same context it’s implied that your birth maybe didn’t happen.

Thats a question of identity. If we are talking about Holocaust we are talking about human beings and time bound event, not formless consciousness, obviously. We are talking about the movie not the screen here. The forum is too meta, need to be more human. 

 

[The0Self]

4 hours ago, Dodo said:

Thats a question of identity. If we are talking about Holocaust we are talking about human beings and time bound event, not formless consciousness, obviously. We are talking about the movie not the screen here. The forum is too meta, need to be more human. 

 

Fairly certain you're taking something out of context. It's a very specific context in question that's pretty hard to misunderstand if you know what's being talked about here.

[Danioover9000]

   We're talking more about the screen here. About the holocaust. 

If we were talking about the movie, we would ask bigger questions like:

Does good or evil exist?

Edited July 19, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Nahm]

On 7/18/2021 at 6:11 AM, Blackhawk said:

did happen

Per direct experience, thoughts only arise now, and can have the content, or implication of, a past. 

Check and see, attempt to experience a thought, which does not arise, now. 

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, The0Self said:

Fairly certain you're taking something out of context. It's a very specific context in question that's pretty hard to misunderstand if you know what's being talked about here.

My statement is clear and I believe I have the right context 

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   We're talking more about the screen here. About the holocaust. 

If we were talking about the movie, we would ask bigger questions like:

Does good or evil exist?

To my knowledge, the screen is being, now, while the movie is all events and things that happen/ed in time. 

For example, from the screen point of view, that building didn't get blown up, because the screen is untouched, but from the movie point of view it did and it affects the story. Rather clear and simple analogy not easy to misunderstand.