Re: Using 5-meo-dmt To Become Enlightened, Questions About Liberation..

[BeyondForm]

Hey!

This is my first post here on the actualized.org forums. I stumbled across Leo's vids about a year and a half ago just after I had my first awakening experience. In the first video I watched of Leo's about enlightenment, I was amazed at how similar his description of one of his experiences was to mine and I've been watching his videos ever since (his description of the wave of mini insights building upon each other, leading to one huge OMG! - afterwhich, for me, was followed by an outpour of laughter haha).

Since the initial discovery, I have had many profound experiences of my true nature and non-dual awareness. I continue to meditate and absorb consciousness/non-duality/spirituality related content every day. The section between the dotted lines is just to give an idea of some of the experiences I've had! Feel free to skip

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- A peak experience on LSD approximately 6-7 months ago, experienced what I would have described as a complete non dual state, I felt like all my ideas and identity whatsoever had been completely shattered, my sense of being permeated out into complete emptiness all around me, the crown chakra above my head opened up and I had extremely bright blue light emanating from a region 6-12 inches above my head, I also had orange light emanating out from my whole body, literally felt like my body was going to slip away, almost like skin being shed. My normal sense of thought became so foreign towards the end of the trip that the idea struck me that I wouldn’t be able to adjust to normal reality again (which lead to a brief freak out that I was able to overcome haha)

-          About 3 weeks after this experience I went to a friends house who has an amazing view basically overlooking my entire city, I had 1 very large bong hit of marijuana and straight after this walked out towards the view (whilst he went inside briefly so I was by myself), once I approached the edge and looked out, it was as though reality itself hit me again and I slipped into pure awareness. The crown chakra, which I had experienced on LSD, completely opened up again and I had bright blue light pouring out from the space above my head, it literally felt as though my head completely opened up and touched the sky. It was remarkable. My whole body merged with space, and I could feel literally feel it all, like my body had become a beacon within space. I could feel and percieve energy rippling  all around me. Bliss overcame me and the whole experience lasted about 5 minutes, was unreal.

-           More recently whilst meditating my entire body slipped into full orgasm for about 5-10 minutes (was not even aware that this was possible), it was as though the energy of existence itself was entering me through my head and exiting out of my pelvic regions. Literally flowing through me, like being fucked by the cosmos and in turn it's energy exiting out of me back into it. Another overwhelming and amazing experience.  - It's actually interesting how this came about, i was being sucked down a mind pattern that was causing me tremendous fear and i was resisting it hard, and then i surrendered completely to it and didn't run anymore, and boom i felt my heart open right up and the rest followed...

-  during many of these experiences, i've experienced thought and the 'me' entity from such a distance it's been unreal, purely perceiving the words and ideas of it floating in space itself, it's crazy how unbelievably different thought itself can seem from the rest of reality (especially in relation to nature and the physical world)

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My question is mainly related to the idea of liberation. For me in day to day experience, I am completely aware of how I 'don't have a head', this region is pure space connected with the outer, and thoughts happen in this space located above my body (open eyes meditation and really observing how there is no 'seer', only the seen and my space amongst it, has been my favored form of meditation). I'm not saying I don't get caught in the egoic state, I absolutely do haha, and I feel 100x more sensitive to it now. There's a huge difference when you're identified with the thoughts and they feed on the bodies emotions. In fact, in the last 6 months I have struggled way more with egoic issues and fears coming up and gripping me than ever before. I often get caught and attached into perceiving it all as a serious problem to be solved rather than a play to be enjoyed.  However, every time I find myself in nature now, or dedicating time for meditation/stillness, I find I am always able to rest in my being and experience this space . Yesterday for example, just sitting silently with my eyes closed and feeling my body, the boundaries completely dissipated and I found my breath taken away and my being merged in space again.

Now as with most people, I'm still struggling to integrate the seeing of this reality fully as a mind & emotional body.  I find most days are just like a roller coaster in and out of identification with the mind, unconscious to conscious, slipping into egoic states where I very easily begin to become frustrated at going through the same garbage patterns (like oh fuck me.. not this shit again.. i thought i was done with this x1000), then all of a sudden switch to noticing literally everything changing within my space and it is 100% clear to me that I am the changeless/timeless under all the change again. Hence, going through this roller coaster all the time, at this part of the journey i can't help but be in the habit of every day going about my life just longing to return to the deeper meditation/stillness again so I can gain that clarity. There's also like this underlying motivation of 'if I just keep resting deeply in being I will keep clearing up the garbage egoic stuff i carry', and that seems to me like the only real goal or progress there can be. However it just feels like this has been going on so long now and isn't even really going anywhere anymore.  

It's frustrating because it is so, so clear that this awareness is what I am, and there truly is no progress to be made with it. It only feels as though i need to work towards liberation in a sense, simply dropping more and more of the minds attachments. Only it doesn't seem that's even happening a lot of the time, or at many times that the egoic states/reactions get even worse! It just feels like that roller coaster is going round and round and then I wind up in deeper clarity for certain periods of the day, in and out etc. In this sense it feels like part of my awakening is missing, but at the same time i know it's not and can't be. Whenever I hear teachers like adyashanti, mooji, osho, sadhguru ..or even Leo and Martin in the recent video describe what the state of liberation is like.. I feel that this is exactly what I'm after and what I'm missing, and I feel that at the same time I've had a taste of this freedom and living from this state many, many times. Literally there has been countless times over the past year, listening to adyashanti describe liberation where I genuinely feel so close to it or that I even have what he is talking about...

Now finally to my point, specifically in regards to Leo - when I hear someone like Leo say that they still aren't liberated, and still have more dissolving to do, even after all his experiences of oneness and understanding he no doubt has, (even doing 5-Meo multiple times for god sake), it literally just makes me want to give up completely at even hoping my egoic attachments and states of mind will dissipate haha. It makes me feel as though.. every time I might feel I am close in a way to this liberation that I will only be deluding myself. I know the reality is that Leo is a completely separate being to me and I have truly no idea what he might be experiencing in comparison to me, and that I am my own individual being and there's nothing say that liberation is not possible for me or that i'm not close (like as in... I shouldn't make a a belief that it can't be done just because of where Leo says he's at) - but at the same time.. even just logically, if someone who has had such extreme experiences and understanding still has much dropping of the ego to do, and he still knows he isn't truly liberated, it just makes my situation feel hopeless again, and that this state of liberation that these guys and teachers like adyashanti talk about might not even be possible, regardless of the fact that the self has been crystal clear to me so, so many times.  Like I've had states where, even just the other day for example when I went for a swim in the ocean, it was literally as though  "holy shit, wow, i am literally just the pure empty substance of reality, the sky itself, with four limbs dangling down from nothingness, nothingness inhabiting a body experiencing and feeling the beauty of this water, expanding outwards in all directions across the ocean, the mind & emotions, whatever that means, just dancing inside of this" - then a day later i'm in pure anger or have some fear I'm going crazy or something like this hahaha. The shift between extremes, and polar opposite paradigms/perceptions of reality can drive me nuts sometimes I tell ya. The difference between such a paradigm and the egoic one just feels so huge, and these days when I get caught in the egoic states sometimes it can be really horrible, like I can get caught in deeply despising it in a way. I feel like I still hold the illusion that something great has to happen so that I will fully embody the self and be done with the ego... Which both does and does not seem to be the case when I know I can only be the self, and have experienced it many, many times. So again.. I just don't see what more can be done other than simply returning to nature/meditation, listening to teachers and forgetting all the garbage for as much time as possible.

Sorry for the overload/rambling, but if anyone, or hopefully even Leo himself could shed more light on liberation that would be great. I'm feeling close to that "i completely give up" point that martin describes and just taking a huge fkn puff of 5-meo and ending this nonsense for good haha (but I probably won't due to fear )

Thanks!





 

[Leo Gura]

Look man, you're on the path. You're walking THE DEEPEST path possible for humans.

Now, if you took up practicing piano, and you only practiced it for 1 hour a day for 2 years, and then came to me and said, "But Leo!!!! Why am I not as good a Mozart yet????? Why????? This is hopeless!!!"

I think you know what I would tell you.

To become as good as Mozart, you need 10,000 hours of practice.

To become fully liberated, you will probably also need 10,000 hours of practice.

Now, have some people managed to become liberated much faster? Sure. A handful of people -- out of 7 billion -- have been lucky enough to get that. But the majority must sink 10,000 hours into this.

This is why I talk about more than just enlightenment. This is way beyond enlightenment. We're talking about self-mastery, and self-mastery is the deepest mastery path of all. It's the most difficult and the longest. But also the greatest.

MASTERY is a CRITICAL concept to keep in mind in this work. If you don't understand how mastery works, you will fail. Go re-read the George Leonard's foundational book called Mastery. Or at least watch my video summary about it.

The reason it seems like it's not happening, is because you're doing way too little consciousness work. Try meditating for 100 hours straight, and you'll see more growth in 1 week than you've probably seen in the last 2 years.

There's a very good reason why monasteries exist. So you can do consciousness work 24/7 and hit your 10,000 hours quickly.

Liberation itself is less important than firmly setting yourself on this path. Don't worry so much about the fruits of the path. Worry about how to devote yourself to the path. This is all of life right here. This is really your only job on Earth, so do it with dedication and a light heart.

[Psychonaut]

@BeyondForm I'm sorry to tell you this. But states produced by acid shouldn't be chased. I have not been able to reproduce any blissful state produced by acid. Those states are not it and shouldn't be chased. It's very likely you can't get them and that is fine. Don't be sad you can't get these states normally.

[Wendelin]

(This is a funny joke, often told by Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev to emphasise on the importance of right philosophy)

It once happened, on a certain day, a bull and a pheasant were grazing on the field. The bull was grazing on the grass, the pheasant was picking ticks off the bull; they are partners, you know?

Then the pheasant looked at a huge tree which was at the edge of the field, and very nostalgically said, "Alas, there was a time when I could fly to the top most branch of the tree, but today I do not have the strength even to fly to the first branch of the tree"

The bull very nonchalantly said, "That's no problem! Eat a little bit of my dung every day, you will see, within a fortnight's time you will reach the top of the tree."

The pheasant said, "Oh, come off it! How is that possible?"

The bull replied, "Really, please try and see. The whole humanity is on it, you could try, too."

Very hesitantly, the pheasant started pecking at the dung, and lo, on the very first day it reached the first branch of the tree. In a fortnight's time, it reached the topmost branch of the tree. It just went and sat on the topmost branch and just enjoyed the scenery. The old farmer saw a fat old pheasant on the top of the tree. He took out his shotgun and shot him off the tree. So the moral of the story is: even bullshit can get you to the top, but never lets you stay there.

[BeyondForm]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far! I think I needed that reminder @Leo Gura about walking the path and not being concerned about outcome - I guess what other choice do we have right? Out of interest though, in regards to yourself, within your moment to moment experience of life, including that of your mind/thoughts, what quality makes you sure you aren't liberated? As in what aspect of your experience confirms that to you, and what might you expect the difference to be within the 'full liberation' so to speak?

Also thanks a lot @NTOgen for all the info and resources! I will definitely check these out! What you've said in regards to where I'm at seems very accurate so I really appreciate the reply. It's like... in those truly non-dual states, or even just clear perception of reality, it is so clear that there is one intelligence governing and flowing through all of it and that you are a part of it, so the answer always seems to come back to a full letting go and surrender to yourself specifically in regards to the play of the changing, just being aware of it - however I just struggle with clarity in regards to being this mind/body that can seemingly take action and make decisions, as well as the consciousness that sees it all, and how this all ties in together. It all used to seem so so clear especially to begin with, because it was like.. you make this amazing discovery, and it all seems to tie in with the spiritual teachings and concepts so easily and so well. But as you go on  and your whole perception of reality shifts/changes more and more, you see you're no longer the 'spiritually awake person' but more just a   'what the hell is actually going on here person' - and in that matter the teachings and concepts that you cling to become more and more useless in clearing it all up, and all the seeming contradictions within it all can sometimes be a bit of a nightmare. It's guess it's just that the differences between the egoic state and it's issues, tied in with non-dual perception, can be quite confusing.     -      Also, not that it really matters but I assume in regards to your point about Leo mentioning 'mastery' he is just reinforcing the point about walking the path rather than chasing a goal. Sometimes I guess we just need that big picture reminder.

One exercise I sort of stumbled across myself is simply changing the paradigm (of how reality is viewed) from this body having a mind, to viewing the mind as an aspect of the whole reality itself - as this space of reality IS what it is happening within. When I see this fact it usually always causes a shift out of the more egoic state for me, and really is a completely different way of seeing things. Just an interesting thing I thought I might share, any thoughts on that?

I'll update this thread at some stage down the track to let you guys know how I go and just for other readers' interest. I also plan on using these forums a lot more, especially considering how great the people/replies are on here!


 

Edited November 24, 2016 by BeyondForm
adding a bit more clarity to some sentences