Stuck in a loop, any advice?

[TrippyMindSubstance]

My goal in spirituality is to experience oneness while sober. I think I've been getting closer and closer to experiencing it while sober. First it took psychedelics mixed with weed, then just psychedelics, then lower doses of psychedelics, then just weed, and now I have these little glimpses, for example last night as I was falling asleep there were a couple seconds where I was in it, and then I was out before I could really experience it.

If I do properly experience it while sober, I will probably enjoy it and try to get as much information out of it as possible, for use in the future when I'm "back to normal". Once I'm back in my normal state, I will probably make some use out of the insights I got from the oneness state, but then I will want to experience it again, putting me in this loop of seeking mystical states, rather than just living my life. 

I'm starting to lose touch with my goals in all of this. I want to experience these states, but it sort of feels like I'm just chasing a high, and that these experiences don't really bring me that much use, other than being temporarily enjoyable. 

I feel like my true growth in life comes from doing work in the "real world", and I'm not completely neglecting this, but I feel like I'm so distracted by spirituality that its making it tougher for me to enjoy my life in the real world.

I would love to kill off this desire to keep experiencing enlightenment/oneness/whatever, and just enjoy the state of consciousness I am regularly in and just act from there, but if I try to suppress or push this desire away, it eventually catches up with me and I don't feel like I'm living authentically because my true desires are out of alignment with my actions.

Any tips on how to navigate this situation? I'm currently trying to satisfy both my "spiritual" and "worldy" desires, but they seem to be in conflict. For example, I wish I was more passionate about my career, but my spiritual side tells me that chasing money, status, etc. is unsatisfying, and ultimately pointless, which obviously kills my motivation to work harder.

[OneHandClap]

Okay, a few quick things. One, you are dead on in noticing that this has become a chasing game to you.

The ego is trying to play fetch. It believes that getting and presenting more elaborate "oneness" experiences will help you survive. How? Because it levels up your sense of self. "Oh, shiny! I can be God! How neat. Now... forget all this human stuff so we can be God!"

It's a huge game that you are probably not aware is even happening. Only you are. You've noticed the pattern. As you said, doing work in the real world is what will really bring the peace. Yes, it is possible to surrender so deeply on psychedelics that you break through and lose the self-sense, but trying to chase this is the diametric opposite of actually surrendering. It happens naturally.

The basic realization of enlightenment is, "Oh, shit, everything is actually fine just how it is." Y'know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Your only job is to realize, over and over, that there is no job to do. Reality will handle itself. You might have the impression that "you" are in control and must make major changes, but the good news is, you already know exactly what to do. The only thing trying to dissuade you from that is your primitive nervous system. Again, it evolved to help you survive and pass on genes, not to be "happy."

The end of the rainbow is you. The pot of gold is you. Look for the peaceful, non-conceptual thoughts moment by moment, and bring attention to them so they become your primary focus. That "good feeling" is a taste of what you are. 

The more you can sink into it, letting it do its thing naturally, the simpler reality becomes. 

Things are fine, have always been fine, and always will be fine. The only thing that can't understand this is your survival drive.

[TrippyMindSubstance]

@OneHandClap I agree with a lot of what you said and its stuff that I definitely know already but seem to forget when I get too caught up in things.

I guess it all comes back to the ultimate spiritual practice being that of surrender/letting go/loving the moment unconditionally.

The only thing I disagree with or maybe just don't fully understand is the idea of survival being the ultimate drive. I know Leo really harps on this and I agree to an extent, but I feel like once our physical and social survival needs are taken care of, our main drive becomes that of thriving, meaning our main drive becomes seeking out pleasant sensations and avoiding uncomfortable ones. If you have no more fear of death, the only thing left to do is just chase pleasure and happiness and help others achieve pleasure and happiness right?

I feel like my desire for these mystical experiences comes from the desire to have fun and avoid physical pain. The mystical experience is fun in and of itself, and if I get some useful insights from it, I hope to use those to make myself more comfortable and avoid physical pain more in my day to day life. One of my biggest causes of physical pain is the fatigue and discomfort that I feel in my body that comes from working for hours doing a job that I don't really love. I guess I hope that these experiences can somehow help me get out of this problem.

If everything was about survival, it would make things too easy: just surrender to the fear of death. Once you do this, you get over it and realize there is nothing to fear. However surrendering to physical pain doesn't seem to fix anything. It sticks around and its still painful, there is no "getting through to the other side" with it. I guess you can surrender and let time pass until it's over, but if it's over then it will inevitably come back again. Can God really not design a way out of this cycle? And if he can, why am I still stuck in it?

[OneHandClap]

Just now, TrippyMindSubstance said:

@OneHandClap I agree with a lot of what you said and its stuff that I definitely know already but seem to forget when I get too caught up in things.

I guess it all comes back to the ultimate spiritual practice being that of surrender/letting go/loving the moment unconditionally.

The only thing I disagree with or maybe just don't fully understand is the idea of survival being the ultimate drive. I know Leo really harps on this and I agree to an extent, but I feel like once our physical and social survival needs are taken care of, our main drive becomes that of thriving, meaning our main drive becomes seeking out pleasant sensations and avoiding uncomfortable ones. If you have no more fear of death, the only thing left to do is just chase pleasure and happiness and help others achieve pleasure and happiness right?

I feel like my desire for these mystical experiences comes from the desire to have fun and avoid physical pain. The mystical experience is fun in and of itself, and if I get some useful insights from it, I hope to use those to make myself more comfortable and avoid physical pain more in my day to day life. One of my biggest causes of physical pain is the fatigue and discomfort that I feel in my body that comes from working for hours doing a job that I don't really love. I guess I hope that these experiences can somehow help me get out of this problem.

If everything was about survival, it would make things too easy: just surrender to the fear of death. Once you do this, you get over it and realize there is nothing to fear. However surrendering to physical pain doesn't seem to fix anything. It sticks around and its still painful, there is no "getting through to the other side" with it. I guess you can surrender and let time pass until it's over, but if it's over then it will inevitably come back again. Can God really not design a way out of this cycle? And if he can, why am I still stuck in it?

Well, if you notice, even the idea of thriving is related to survival. Again, you have to separate what you are from what "God" is. You are a human being. If you want to stay a human being, which you probably do, you will do human survival stuff to stay alive. This isn't bad in any way. 

The trouble is imagining that God is some sort of single mind that is designing reality like a Lego builder. God doesn't really "make" stuff the way you're phrasing it. 

People have many ideas about what reality is, but the simplest way to know what's what is to actually surrender enough to the point where your brain gets really quiet. At that point, reality will just become what it is. There will be no filter between reality and "your" mind. They become one.

Look at Zen. Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. Imagining that there is an endgame beyond being happy is the definition of suffering. 

It's enough to just be at total peace and let the experience flow. The love will come. What you really want is love, not to be anything other than human. Everything we do is for love.

[TrippyMindSubstance]

@OneHandClap Fair enough.

This idea of avoiding pain and having to deal with the pain of working for hours is currently just an idea in my mind, just an imagined concept in this moment. Right now I'm just sitting here, and I'm fairly comfortable, and what I'm experiencing right now is actually very mysterious and beautiful. 

I guess there is a fear of "what happens once this beautiful moment inevitably gets interrupted by something unpleasant!", but that is just another arising thought. I just need to keep letting go..

[OneHandClap]

Just now, TrippyMindSubstance said:

@OneHandClap Fair enough.

This idea of avoiding pain and having to deal with the pain of working for hours is currently just an idea in my mind, just an imagined concept in this moment. Right now I'm just sitting here, and I'm fairly comfortable, and what I'm experiencing right now is actually very mysterious and beautiful. 

I guess there is a fear of "what happens once this beautiful moment inevitably gets interrupted by something unpleasant!", but that is just another arising thought. I just need to keep letting go..

Aha! You are enlightened

Well, you know what I mean

Stay with that. Each time your mind tells you something bad will come, or that it will change away from peace, just tell it "Nice try, but I'm all good." Meditation is nothing more than telling the mind, over and over, that you have already found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You are already in heaven. Even with pain, you are in heaven. The nervous system is not your boss  It does not know what is actually good and bad... just good and bad for your human body and its ideas of keeping you alive. 

You can also try thanking your brain for doing such a good job, but telling it that it can take a break. It works hard. It needs a nice pina colada, don't you think? 

[TrippyMindSubstance]

@OneHandClap My mind has questions: what is all this? where did I come from? are other people real? 

But this is just my mind trying to escape from the moment, thinking that I need these answers, that if I don't have these answers, I somehow won't be able to have peace. But I am already at peace  

[OneHandClap]

Just now, TrippyMindSubstance said:

@OneHandClap My mind has questions: what is all this? where did I come from? are other people real? 

But this is just my mind trying to escape from the moment, thinking that I need these answers, that if I don't have these answers, I somehow won't be able to have peace. But I am already at peace  

Yep, you are on the straight and narrow path. If you look around this forum enough, you will see a lot of people who have taken the map to be the real territory. A lot of hanging up on words like God, Truth, Infinity. 

The truth is that we didn't evolve to understand these concepts, as you can surely sense. Trying to get the brain to understand reality is like trying to explain thermodynamics to an ant. It just can't do the task. The hardware isn't up to speed. 

Just keep probing for that deep stillness and staying with it. Keep telling the mind that you're set where you are, and that you don't understand a thing, but also don't need to. Then the way things are will come up naturally, like water from a spring. We all have these deep questions, but ironically, trying to find an answer is what gets us further from the actual answers. We were born knowing nothing, only being there and being mindblown at the absurdity and wonder of it all; it's now our job to return to that.  

[TrippyMindSubstance]

@OneHandClap Thanks a lot. I'm really glad I posted here and talking to you really helped me ground myself and get back on track. Have a great night  

[OneHandClap]

Just now, TrippyMindSubstance said:

@OneHandClap Thanks a lot. I'm really glad I posted here and talking to you really helped me ground myself and get back on track. Have a great night  

You too, my friend! Let us know how it goes. Stay with the peace, and remember to have fun, too. The path isn't anything to take too seriously when you've learned how the mind plays its tricks  Have a good meal, watch a funny movie. Laugh at how hard we try to do the simplest thing in the universe