Some thoughts about reality and my worthlessness, etc.

[Blackhawk]

I don't think anyone knows anything about the ultimate reality, only believe things about it. And it disgusts me to see people perform mental gymnastics and then pretend to know.

This observable reality is cruel.

Everyone are selfish. All love is selfish. If you don't have anything to offer you will be unloved. I don't have anything to offer. And I don't have the ability to build something to offer.

It hurts so much to not be liked by anyone, or loved or desired. And to be alone. And to be worthless. Worthless people gets thrown into the trash of loneliness, like if they don't have any emotions. This reality doesn't give a shit about emotions.

The pain of being truly, truly worthless is unbearable.

I don't find anything enjoyable anymore. So there's nothing for me to do. There is probably some things which I would enjoy but I can't have those things.

There is no way out of this. Not professional help, not medication, nothing.

I can't stand this stuff anymore. But I will be forced more of this stuff.

And on top of this there are many living beings who choose to add even more suffering into the world. Like if what we were thrown into isn't enough. That's really beyond me.

And under the "right" circumstances all people are capable of adding more suffering into the world, unfortunately.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Blackhawk]

Btw, I know you feel obliged to try to comfort. But none of your comforting lies or beliefs will help, because I wont believe in them.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Blackhawk]

I have a bunch of spiritual books, right now I'm reading "Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives" by Michael Newton.

I view all the books as probably just beliefs, hallucinations, or at worst: deliberate lies to earn money.

But I also think there's a small possibility that they might be right.

This not knowing is frustrating.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Blackhawk

[snowyowl]

@Blackhawk "I view all the books as probably just beliefs, hallucinations, or at worst: deliberate lies to earn money.

But I also think there's a small possibility that they might be right.

This not knowing is frustrating."

Yeah, belief is so powerful isn't it, shaping how we see the world. A bit of doubt can be liberating, opens the door to new perspectives. Maybe. If we are open minded. Not knowing doesn't need to be frustrating, it can be exciting, creating some space in our belief system for something new. 

Sorry to hear you're in pain, I wish you all the best, really. That's not a lie or a belief by the way. 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by snowyowl

[Blackhawk]

@snowyowl Thanks.

[4201]

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

I don't think anyone knows anything about the ultimate reality, only believe things about it. And it disgusts me to see people perform mental gymnastics and then pretend to know.

Usually we tend to dislike about others what we dislike about ourselves.

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

This observable reality is cruel.

It can be observed as cruel. Obviously "cruel" is a subjective statement. Taking it as something objective or always true, would be... bullshit 

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Everyone are selfish. All love is selfish. If you don't have anything to offer you will be unloved. I don't have anything to offer. And I don't have the ability to build something to offer.

It hurts so much to not be liked by anyone, or loved or desired. And to be alone. And to be worthless. Worthless people gets thrown into the trash of loneliness, like if they don't have any emotions. This reality doesn't give a shit about emotions.

Worthless to who? The concept of value is entirely subjective. Your "value" depends entirely on what people are looking for. If you are looking for someone with a red shirt, and I have a blue shirt, I am "worthless" to your search. 

Are everyone the "same person" looking for the "same thing"? No everyone's doing different stuff and looking for different things. I already suggested this but if you wanted to be valuable to someone, even just as a thought experiment, you can do volunteering. You will quickly discover that the entire notion of value depends entirely on the context and there's no such thing as an intrinsic value.

If someone thinks they are depressed and acts depressed, then they aren't of much value to someone who is seeking a friendship. If you were to be looking for friends, would you approach the most depressed people? None of this means you "can't be valuable" because you aren't the depression, the depression IS bullshit. 

If you believe you are intrinsically worthless then you act in a way to not provide value to anyone, in order to reinforce your belief. 

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

The pain of being truly, truly worthless is unbearable.

Of course, because you aren't. Your entire body is telling you "NO THAT'S BULLSHIT!!!" This is literally the function of feeling. You don't have to believe me, you can just feel it, it's true.

If you were to believe bullshit, it would be highly painful. Otherwise, there would be no reason to not believe bullshit.

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

There is no way out of this. Not professional help, not medication, nothing.

I can't stand this stuff anymore. But I will be forced more of this stuff.

You aren't forced to do anything. If you were to sit down, breath deeply and focus entirely on your breath, it wouldn't feel bad.

Why? Because lack of thought is also lack of bullshit. Even if every one of your thoughts are bullshit, you aren't forced to believe them. You can let the thoughts appear and not give them attention. As you stop giving all your attention to bullshit thoughts, better ones will come, which will feel much better.

Notice that for you to feel bad you need to think incessantly. No matter who you are, you cannot be wrong (or in bullshit) if you don't claim anything. But if you do, and if you don't challenge what you are claiming, then you are quite likely stuck deep in your own bullshit. Stop claiming "there's no way out", all that is doing is stacking bullshit on top of bullshit. It will never feel good because it is simply not true.

 

 

I used the word "bullshit" a lot but it wasn't mean to be in a derogatory or aggressive manner... Just using the same words.

I feel like you've made a lot of progress in the last months, you seem much more open to ideas different to what you currently hold as true and overall much more interested in discovering the truth. I can tell you will wake up, it's just a matter of time. Pain is a serious motivator. Wish you the best.

PS: The Book of Not Knowing by Peter Ralston is a very good book that is empty of any claim you could possibly label as "bullshit". It is truly a book about not knowing, which you may find of interests if you don't like other spiritual books that "claim too much".

[Mu_]

On 7/17/2021 at 3:59 PM, Blackhawk said:

I don't think anyone knows anything about the ultimate reality, only believe things about it. And it disgusts me to see people perform mental gymnastics and then pretend to know.

This observable reality is cruel.

Everyone are selfish. All love is selfish. If you don't have anything to offer you will be unloved. I don't have anything to offer. And I don't have the ability to build something to offer.

It hurts so much to not be liked by anyone, or loved or desired. And to be alone. And to be worthless. Worthless people gets thrown into the trash of loneliness, like if they don't have any emotions. This reality doesn't give a shit about emotions.

The pain of being truly, truly worthless is unbearable.

I don't find anything enjoyable anymore. So there's nothing for me to do. There is probably some things which I would enjoy but I can't have those things.

There is no way out of this. Not professional help, not medication, nothing.

I can't stand this stuff anymore. But I will be forced more of this stuff.

And on top of this there are many living beings who choose to add even more suffering into the world. Like if what we were thrown into isn't enough. That's really beyond me.

And under the "right" circumstances all people are capable of adding more suffering into the world, unfortunately.

sorry to hear your in a lot of pain around this life.

One thing that may help and is in line with some of the responses is to just take a moment and read your original post again with a open mind, and ask yourself if its a post stating facts, or a post stating opinions. 

If you can see its opinions, perhaps you can then leave room open for what you dont know about life.  Because according to your own logic, how does the writer of this post even know what they are saying is fact?

It wasn't until I did something similar, that other perspectives and experiences were able to present themselves, my own conviction of how life and reality was, was preventing me from seeing other.

 

I can say for certain on my end that what you wrote is not true as I see life, but I do get why you would come to the conclusions you did, since there are selfish people, there is pain caused by discomforts and loss, but thats only a partial picture.  I to had similar conclusions.

Forget about god or the eternal, Im just talking relatively.  Lots of people experience enjoyment, value and relationship.  Lots of people enjoy their jobs, enjoy living in various degrees for various reasons.

I'm also pretty sure there are things that are valueable to society and that your good or decent at.....  Don't sell yourself short..

 

[Roy]

On 7/17/2021 at 0:59 PM, Blackhawk said:

Everyone are selfish. All love is selfish. If you don't have anything to offer you will be unloved. I don't have anything to offer. And I don't have the ability to build something to offer.

It hurts so much to not be liked by anyone, or loved or desired. And to be alone. And to be worthless. Worthless people gets thrown into the trash of loneliness, like if they don't have any emotions. This reality doesn't give a shit about emotions.

The pain of being truly, truly worthless is unbearable.

I am sorry for your pain @Blackhawk. I imagine it really sucks to be feeling like this.

I do think you've either bought in or built up an unnecessary and unhelpful perspective though, a perspective which is not truth or permanent, and CAN be changed.

If you really wanted to, do you think it's possible to find examples where love isn't being selfish? Or recall moments in your life when you did have something to offer, and it felt good?

[Blackhawk]

@4201 Ok.

@Mu_ Thanks.

1 minute ago, Roy said:

If you really wanted to, do you think it's possible to find examples where love isn't being selfish? Or recall moments in your life when you did have something to offer, and it felt good?

No.

 

--------------------

 

Today I felt even more sad and lonely than usual. And it was a bit different kind of sadness, loneliness and hopelessness.

[Roy]

3 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

No.

Are you just saying that because of your state right now, or can you really not recall anything?

Because I'm willing to bet you could.

[Blackhawk]

23 minutes ago, Roy said:

Are you just saying that because of your state right now, or can you really not recall anything?

Because I'm willing to bet you could.

I really can't recall anything.

[Roy]

22 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I really can't recall anything.

That's ok. Maybe not now, but they could reveal themselves if you keep the fire of searching lit.

You mentioned people only believe things about reality. What do you believe about worthiness? Have you considered that worthiness is actually relative?

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

That's ok. Maybe not now, but they could reveal themselves if you keep the fire of searching lit.

You mentioned people only believe things about reality. What do you believe about worthiness? Have you considered that worthiness is actually relative?

Yes I know that worthiness is relative. I'm not entirely worthless for my employer, because otherwise he would fire me. And I'm not worthless to my parents, because I'm their son. Etc.

But I'm worthless in the most important area: in the social area.

[Roy]

17 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Yes I know that worthiness is relative. I'm not entirely worthless for my employer, because otherwise he would fire me. And I'm not worthless to my parents, because I'm their son. Etc.

Then are you really saying with conviction that you are "truly, truly worthless"?  Not trying to be a smart ass, just want to help you poke holes in your own perspective a bit so you can let some light in, and know that's possible.

17 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

But I'm worthless in the most important area: in the social area.

Why? Because you don't have 500+ bullshit facebook friends? Because you aren't partying and getting blackout drunk every weekend like other people? Because you aren't sucking cock to get up some workplace or community hierarchy?

Who's social game are you worrying you aren't playing well?

[Blackhawk]

@Roy Truly worthless because I can't get a girlfriend.

It's important because you get depressed if you are as alone as I am.

[4201]

@Blackhawk Can you notice not believing in yourself plays a role in not getting a girlfriend?

 

If I wanted to do a complicated task like driving a car, but deeply believed I am unable to drive, would it work out? Would I wake up one day being able to drive a car? The only way out for me to learn to drive a car is question this idea that I am not able to drive a car. Otherwise I'll never get out of my "hole". It still will require me to learn though but I both need to stop believing I can't and then start learning. 

 

Can you see that thinking you can't makes you not able to, because what you need is confidence which equals thinking you can? 

Edited July 21, 2021 by 4201

[Blackhawk]

@4201 No I can't get a gf.

[4201]

13 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@4201 No I can't get a gf.

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

[Blackhawk]

35 minutes ago, 4201 said:

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

Yes, because I have tried to connect with women, tried to arrange dates, and I have had dates. Everything has failed.

But I don't have any evidence for you.

[4201]

14 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Yes, because I have tried to connect with women, tried to arrange dates, and I have had dates. Everything has failed.

But I don't have any evidence for you.

This is evidence that you've failed in the past. A correct statement would be "I never had a girlfriend" perhaps. But why would this prove anything about the future?

What's the difference between evidence for "me" and for "you"? I thought evidence was evidence, now evidence is subjective? Is evidence really evidence if it's subjective? In my opinion, this is what we call a "belief".

Maybe you found something I haven't found, perhaps you are capable to predict the future entirely based on the past. If so we could be extremely rich using the stock market right now  From my POV though, I cannot predict the weather, how my career will be nor how my future relationships will be. It's all unknown, because it hasn't happened yet.

Edited July 21, 2021 by 4201