Struggling with Blackpill

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, modmyth said:

The men who learn it in the first place lacked a certain abundance and self-assurance to start with (which I would hardly ever fault them for, we all start in different places with different strengths and weaknesses). But I think makes it profoundly hard to relate to men who did not have the same experience of lack as them. It's very transparent.

It's literally like we live in a different world, particularly IRL.

We're in completely different "marketplaces".

Absolutely. I've never had any issue finding a man who's invested in me in particular. All of my romances except one has begun in the context of a wider social circle where the dynamic was organic and me and the guy would be interacting platonically until things naturally turned romantic. 

So, it's so strange to me when these guys are certain that this doesn't work somehow or that this is a sign that these men are lame. But from my perspective, it's just how relationships develop.

In fact, for the longest time of being cold approached as a teenager, I would wonder if the guys who did it got any women at all. It just seemed strange to me to think that approaching a woman with sexual intent on the street would actually yield results. But I guess now I know that it does work on some women.  

Yea, I've always found this very daft. It's a losing game for whoever plays regardless, when its based on an inner sense of emotional scarcity. Might as well just go deal with those feelings directly, the burden of living with feeling that way isn't worthwhile for anyone.

Yeah, for sure. The issue is that a person has to become conscious that their issue isn't a relationship issue, it's an issue with self-esteem. And that's even a bit more nebulous to address.

I totally get this.

It's also very much a losing proposition if you find yourself in this situation emotionally, I'm not sure to what degree people realize this? Like even with a better outcome, a certain lack of self development and emotional scarcity tends to catch up with us. It will degrade a relationship over the long term too.  Anything that encourages us to go along with and act based on a sense of emotional scarcity... I'm sorry, how is this helping us in a sustainable way?

Yeah, for sure. It's important to have that bit of detachment from relationships as a source of fulfillment. And then you can be in a position of power when it comes to finding a good one because you don't need one.

 

[Preety_India]

Just now, Harlen Kelly said:

@Preety_India

Ok, and how exactly did you make the jump from that to ''women don't have any options''? 

I am genuinely confused. 

40 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

So is the man's survival, your point?

Look at the stuff you wrote. You're telling a woman that she just doesn't stand a chance with 90% of men.

What else do you want to know ?

You go around telling a man that they can have multiple options yet to a woman who is highly intelligent , you tell her that her options are too narrow ?

 

 

[Harlen Kelly]

@Preety_India You are not understanding the context Preety. My post says that a woman whom you have to wait 3 months to sleep with is not regarded as a ''high value'' woman by most men, she is just automatically discarded because most men would not wait that long. 

A select few, guys who are not used to getting female attention and don't have any options, would wait that long. 

That was my assertion, which I think is a pretty reasonable, plausible assertion. 

Women on average tend to have more options than men, I never implied otherwise. 

And by the way, there are millions of guys who don't have any options and would wait that long.

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

Probably one of the most profound and empathetic post written in a long time. I see what you see.

Though, sometimes it is hard to keep this in mind, reading some of the stuff being said. 

Kudos to you for not getting triggered and staying so firmly grounded.

I definitely still get triggered by it for sure, because it upsets me to be misrepresented and misunderstood more than anything. It just makes me want to tear my hair out to be disbelieved about my own experiences.

I'm pretty numb to most types of misogyny, but that one just really irks me and I feel like coming in and kicking ass and taking names.  

But yes, it's honestly coming from tons of self-worth issues. All misogyny really does come from that. 

In fact, you can probably guess that the majority of men who are drawn to pick are doing so out of some perceived sense of lacking value and being unlovable. 

But men and women's survival drives are deeply intertwined. It's part of nature's design. We're meant to fit together. It's designed symbiotically for a win-win. 

It's just that men who feel insecure will want a win-lose situation with women on the losing end, because they want control. And they will justify their desire for a win-lose by thinking women are looking for a win-lose. And they frame it all as some cut-throat zero-sum game. 

But in reality, women's desire is usually very pro-social and pro-love. So, it creates more of a win-win situation. But men's baser desire to seek lots of sex is pretty anti-social and creates a lose-win scenario. 

Basically, there's a reason why relationship is considered part of the feminine principle. And that's because the feminine is oriented toward love, relationships, motherhood, community building, and socializing in general.

So, when you get men trying to control the narrative around relationships to choke out the feminine nature of it. And then if women who don't challenge that narrative, you get shittier relationships all around. 

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Lucas-fgm said:

 I regret my words. I learn a lot with you girls actually. 

 

 

 

I know you since some time now.

You aren't the guy who will make a lot of mistakes 

You look attractive and you do have decent skills.

So I'm quite confident you'll do great in relationships and in life in general.

Don't give into self pity and be happy 

You're doing good 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Runtz

On 17/07/2021 at 7:35 PM, Runtz said:

I'll be honest, I'm struggling with blackpill ideology. It seems impossible to get a hot girlfriend if you are not hot. Quite fair ofc but that is just what I always dreamed of.

Leo saying a Pua's succes rate is always within 0.5-3%. Would this really work the same for rich and/or good looking guys.

I'm feeling like even if i get a hot girl, She will always either cheat on me or something but never really want me.

Girls never look at me on the street or anything. While I hear from other, taller better looking guys that they do.

I want to take responsibility but I just want to know the truth about how girls think about me and how they really rate guys.

I know blackpill people are fucked in the head. But it feels like it is true how they describe the unlovingness and judging of girls. In elementary I was literally called ugly by girls, specifically ugly. not "pussy" or some other shit.

What is the fucking truth.

 

    On second thought, nah. It's all brain chemistry and genetics bro.

[EternalForest]

Alright so I've just read your original post and haven't read any replies but when it comes to the Black Pill, let me give it to you straight, man. I used to have a lot of the same negative and defeatist sort of beliefs about women, until I realized one very important thing:

Even if the Black Pill is true, it doesn't matter at all!

It doesn't matter if there isn't a single woman in the entire world wants to have a relationship with you at the moment. Why? Because you need to live your own life.

Do you. Forget about what women want and live your dreams. Pursue your passions. Live the life you've already dreamed of. Be the genuine person that you really want to be.

Once you do this, you'll realize all this sulking and negativity was just a waste of your time. Every moment that you spend bitter about the fact you don't have a girlfriend is one moment that you could be spending pursuing your passions, helping others, building your company, creating your art, and ultimately changing the world. 

And you know what? Once you start living your best life, you'll eventually find the quality women that you have a lot in common with. You'll attract and gravitate towards the women that are perfect for you.

If I were you? Forget that you ever found the Black Pill, get off the internet, and have some fun. Work hard. Play hard.

Wish you the best!

Edited July 23, 2021 by EternalForest

[Peter Miklis]

@EternalForest Great response. Very empowering.

[SamC]

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

I definitely still get triggered by it for sure, because it upsets me to be misrepresented and misunderstood more than anything. It just makes me want to tear my hair out to be disbelieved about my own experiences.

@Emerald If you get triggered or feel missunderstood by it - it always comes from yourself and that you do the same thing to yourself.

I am asking this following question, not because I want to prove you're wrong and I am right and missunderstand you but becuase I think we both are wrong and I want to learn more about myself and " integrate" your perspective and learn how to understand you and myself better.

" What are the dynamic within yourself that you think causes your feelings of feeling triggered and missunderstood?"

My theroy is that it has to do with animus possession or something like that but I have no idea.

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

I'm pretty numb to most types of misogyny, but that one just really irks me and I feel like coming in and kicking ass and taking names.  

But yes, it's honestly coming from tons of self-worth issues. All misogyny really does come from that. 

In fact, you can probably guess that the majority of men who are drawn to pick are doing so out of some perceived sense of lacking value and being unlovable. 

But men and women's survival drives are deeply intertwined. It's part of nature's design. We're meant to fit together. It's designed symbiotically for a win-win. 

It's just that men who feel insecure will want a win-lose situation with women on the losing end, because they want control. And they will justify their desire for a win-lose by thinking women are looking for a win-lose. And they frame it all as some cut-throat zero-sum game. 

But in reality, women's desire is usually very pro-social and pro-love. So, it creates more of a win-win situation. But men's baser desire to seek lots of sex is pretty anti-social and creates a lose-win scenario. 

Basically, there's a reason why relationship is considered part of the feminine principle. And that's because the feminine is oriented toward love, relationships, motherhood, community building, and socializing in general.

So, when you get men trying to control the narrative around relationships to choke out the feminine nature of it. And then if women who don't challenge that narrative, you get shittier relationships all around. 

Just telling how I interpet this. You always seem to focus on the problems outside of you and not inside.

You have some amazing ideas Emerald but when you write out how everything is and say you have the answers - many guys feel missunderstood, just like you feel when we guys do the same.

What is the meta dynamic going on here? Any ideas or thoughts. I mean both men and woman feel missunderstood and when that happens everyone gets pushed away by everyone. It can't be men or woman that does this.. both must do it, at the same time.

[kellyjo]

I think you need to try to love yourself and gain self-confidence. Then the girls will pay attention

[Emerald]

16 minutes ago, SamC said:

@Emerald If you get triggered or feel missunderstood by it - it always comes from yourself and that you do the same thing to yourself.

No. It’s honestly just frustrating. It would frustrate anyone.

It would frustrate you too if you had so many people arguing that you’re wrong about how you feel. That’s especially true when those people are really ignorant and arrogant about it.

I am asking this following question, not because I want to prove you're wrong and I am right and missunderstand you but becuase I think we both are wrong and I want to learn more about myself and " integrate" your perspective and learn how to understand you and myself better.

See that’s the thing. I’m not wrong. I’m telling you about my experiences and general MO. 

" What are the dynamic within yourself that you think causes your feelings of feeling triggered and missunderstood?"

My theroy is that it has to do with animus possession or something like that but I have no idea.

Any thoughts or ideas?

The Animus takes the reigns in a woman (not just when she is possessed) but when she is emotionally unsafe to show her feminine side. So, women will toughen up around men whose feminine side isn’t integrated.

Being in a such a polarly masculine space pretty much means you have to be masculine to be adapt.

Also, notice how hostile so many men on here are when I share the truth of my experiences. They find my feminine side threatening, so it can not be shown here.

Just telling how I interpet this. You always seem to focus on the problems outside of you and not inside.

I do have an inner work practice. And this is part of it. It helps me grapple with things and crystallize insights.

You have some amazing ideas Emerald but when you write out how everything is and say you have the answers - many guys feel missunderstood, just like you feel when we guys do the same.

But I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about me and my preferences. I’m talking about women.

So a man might feel misunderstood but that is projection because I never said anything about men other than how I generally orient to them.

What is the meta dynamic going on here? Any ideas or thoughts. I mean both men and woman feel missunderstood and when that happens everyone gets pushed away by everyone. It can't be men or woman that does this.. both must do it, at the same time.

But here’s the thing. I’m not being unreceptive to men’s perspective, at all. I’m just sharing my perspective about my own sexuality. And men are just feeling like my sexuality somehow invalidates them in some way. So they don’t want to hear it. And they put their fingers in their ears.

Trust me when I say that I understand male sexuality and the male survival bias quite a lot. Honestly, a great many women are very fluent with this because men are very vocal about their biases.

So men may feel misunderstood when women talk about their own perspective. But this is only because men are adamant to misunderstand us. Misunderstanding us is the unconscious goal because deep down they know and fear that what I’m saying is true.

 

[SamC]

@Emerald If I where you I would investigate how you're contributing to your feelings of being missunderstood. You said you got triggered yourself and feel missunderstood so you obviously are not only frustrated becuase it is what it is. 

Of course this forum is toxic and of course most men here, especially in the daiting section missunderstand woman, but also realize that men also feel missunderstood from woman.

Men don't feel missunderstood when you girls talk about the female perspective - men feel missunderstand when females negate and gaslight the men perspective. If trauma didn't exsist on both sides - the gender war would be resolved becuase then the other side wouldn't feel triggerd and in need of defending it's position.

It's not a projection... it's how many men feel when they for example are told by woman that they should be more feminine to be attractive but then end up rejecting them for being that + telling men that they should listen to them eventhough their advice when it comes to attracting woman doesn't work.

Don't negate when men feel missunderstand as projection... notice how you do the exact same thing to yourself and guys that guys do to you. You missunderstand and invalidate many men's experience.

Guys say girls project and girls say guys project. Both feel missunderstood. Everyone deserves to be heard - and most importantly. Everyone must realize that it doesn't start out there, it starts inside.

Also note. You have every right to your experience. You feel missunderstood and you're allowed to feel that and I understand why you do it... like many men don't understand, and I still only understand small bits.

"It's very frustrating to only be judged by your looks"

"It's very frustrating when guys only are after sex and not real commitment and tell you that, no I know what you wan, you want the PUA tactics and schemes and get pumped up emotionally" ( that's not what girls want, girls want intimate fulfilling relationships"

" it's very frustrating when guys say that men don't know what they want, like fuck men with their gaslighting. I'm a human being who have my own needs and wants and I am special and want a guy whu will love me and treat me well yet at the same time be masculine"

Your female perspective is super valid but that doesn't mean that the male perspective isn't. It's not about understanding it, like, oh guys want sex and what guys seek.

It's about understanding that men feel missunderstood, hurt and scared aswell.. most woman don't get that.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by SamC

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, SamC said:

@Emerald If I where you I would investigate how you're contributing to your feelings of being missunderstood. You said you got triggered yourself and feel missunderstood so you obviously are not only frustrated becuase it is what it is. 

Of course this forum is toxic and of course most men here, especially in the daiting section missunderstand woman, but also realize that men also feel missunderstood from woman.

Men don't feel missunderstood when you girls talk about the female perspective - men feel missunderstand when females negate and gaslight the men perspective. If trauma didn't exsist on both sides - the gender war would be resolved becuase then the other side wouldn't feel triggerd and in need of defending it's position.

It's not a projection... it's how many men feel when they for example are told by woman that they should be more feminine to be attractive but then end up rejecting them for being that + telling men that they should listen to them eventhough their advice when it comes to attracting woman doesn't work.

Don't negate when men feel missunderstand as projection... notice how you do the exact same thing to yourself and guys that guys do to you.

Guys say girls project and girls say guys project. Both feel missunderstood. Everyone deserves to be heard - and most importantly. Everyone must realize that it doesn't start out there, it starts inside.

Stop trying to do the “wrong on both sides” argument.

That just isn’t accurate. It’s just the middle ground fallacy dressed up as the voice of reason.

The women on here ARE misunderstood and deliberately so.

The men on here FEEL misunderstood when they are not.

Notice the difference, and call it what it is.

Also, women are dealing with the aftermath of thousands of years of having their perspectives totally squelched. And this type of misogyny hits very deep individual and collective wounds that relate directly to women’s oppression.

So it is quite normal and natural for these wounds to get triggered when women are unilaterally gaslit about their own desires and instincts.

[Preety_India]

29 minutes ago, SamC said:

@Emerald If I where you I would investigate how you're contributing to your feelings of being missunderstood. You said you got triggered yourself and feel missunderstood so you obviously are not only frustrated becuase it is what it is. 

Of course this forum is toxic and of course most men here, especially in the daiting section missunderstand woman, but also realize that men also feel missunderstood from woman.

Men don't feel missunderstood when you girls talk about the female perspective - men feel missunderstand when females negate and gaslight the men perspective. If trauma didn't exsist on both sides - the gender war would be resolved becuase then the other side wouldn't feel triggerd and in need of defending it's position.

It's not a projection... it's how many men feel when they for example are told by woman that they should be more feminine to be attractive but then end up rejecting them for being that + telling men that they should listen to them eventhough their advice when it comes to attracting woman doesn't work.

Don't negate when men feel missunderstand as projection... notice how you do the exact same thing to yourself and guys that guys do to you. You missunderstand and invalidate many men's experience.

Guys say girls project and girls say guys project. Both feel missunderstood. Everyone deserves to be heard - and most importantly. Everyone must realize that it doesn't start out there, it starts inside.

Also note. You have every right to your experience. You feel missunderstood and you're allowed to feel that and I understand why you do it... like many men don't understand, and I still only understand small bits.

"It's very frustrating to only be judged by your looks"

"It's very frustrating when guys only are after sex and not real commitment and tell you that, no I know what you wan, you want the PUA tactics and schemes and get pumped up emotionally" ( that's not what girls want, girls want intimate fulfilling relationships"

" it's very frustrating when guys say that men don't know what they want, like fuck men with their gaslighting. I'm a human being who have my own needs and wants and I am special and want a guy whu will love me and treat me well yet at the same time be masculine"

Your female perspective is super valid but that doesn't mean that the male perspective isn't. It's not about understanding it, like, oh guys want sex and what guys seek.

It's about understanding that men feel missunderstood, hurt and scared aswell.. most woman don't get that.

 

 

If you understand women better, you'd be misunderstood less by them. 

By understanding them right, you'll be in flow with them. By denying this, you're only looking to impose yourself on women, which never works and leads you to be misunderstood by them

[aurum]

Here is a list of things I've learned from self-reflecting and participating in this thread:

- I've put unnecessary pressure on women in the past to have sex quickly. I can remember several situations where a girl would be clearly attracted to me, but just not ready to have sex. And I cut them off immediately. In truth, these were breakthrough moments for me. Prior to that, I had struggled with expressing my needs and drawing boundaries. So this actually felt quite empowering. But looking back I can see that it was still largely immature and reactionary behavior. Not balanced.

- I need to focus on building on a proper foundation for a relationship. I've found success in the past with having random hookups, but it almost always ended the exact same way. Either:

a) she would never speak to be again afterwards

b) she would get totally obsessed with me and clingy

PUAs almost always chalk up girls in camp a to "you just didn't fuck her good enough" or "it's a numbers game". They don't really care if girls stick around because they tend to not want them to stick around anyway.

For the girls in camp b, you could easily make them your girlfriend. This is true. They are highly emotionally invested in you and would be thrilled if you settled down with them. But the reality with these girls is that it was never enough. I would give, give and give and it felt like pouring into a black hole. They were still clingy and always wanted more of me, more of my time, more of my attention. Drawing a boundary didn't help. Because fundamentally, they probably weren't happy in the relationship and didn't feel like I was meeting their needs. So fuck your boundary. Eventually it would get to a point where I'd be burnt out, frustrated and would end it with them.

Now you could say "yeah bro, those girls exist, stay away". But WHY was I attracting those girls? Why was it always one of these two situations? Why have I struggled to attract someone more solid?

I think it's because I have not focused on building foundation. All emotional spikes, not much substance. I was still closed off to deeper levels of love and a deeper relationship / commitment, and my resistance attracted their neediness. We perfectly triggered each other. Or they just dropped me entirely.

- Social circle is the way to go. I've been writing about the benefits of social circle when it comes to dating for a while now. And for guys who have been "friendzoned" in the past, they're very suspicious of it. But it seems obvious to me that once you have a solid foundation as a man, social circle is clearly superior to the alternative of cold approach. Granted, there may be some occasions where a cold approach is warranted. It's not black or white. But all in all, having a strong social circle is going to be vastly beneficial for meeting your dating needs, no matter what they are. Friends > PUA lines.

- It's time to slow down. I've been getting an intuition for a while now that it's really time for me to slow down. Build something real. Let it evolve on its own. And I feel this thread has confirmed those suspicions.

I realize for guys who struggle to even get the time of day from a girl, these problems might seem ridiculous. If you've got no girl, a clingy girl or a girl who fucks you and leaves still seems pretty good. And that's fair enough, I've been there. Do what you got to do to learn the dating game, nothing wrong with that. But I can promise you that if you keep growing, these ideas will occur to you. And you may want to reconsider your choices at that point.

Grateful for everyone who participated in this thread.

[RickyFitts]

@aurum Nice reflections, if we all had your level of self-awareness and self-honesty (and this applies to both men and women), there would be far fewer problems in relationships. But it's so much easier to see the splinter in their eye than to see the log in your own.

10 minutes ago, aurum said:

For the girls in camp b, you could easily make them your girlfriend. This is true. They are highly emotionally invested in you and would be thrilled if you settled down with them. But the reality with these girls is that it was never enough. I would give, give and give and it felt like pouring into a black hole. They were still clingy and always wanted more of me, more of my time, more of my attention. Drawing a boundary didn't help. Because fundamentally, they probably weren't happy in the relationship and didn't feel like I was meeting their needs. So fuck your boundary. Eventually it would get to a point where I'd be burnt out, frustrated and would end it with them.

Oh boy can I relate to this, I had a seriously unfortunate habit of attracting needy women and they would end up draining me horribly. That wasn't their fault, they obviously had some pretty acute emotional issues and I was unwittingly enabling their needy behaviour by jumping into a relationship with them too quickly and not having firm enough boundaries (I was embarrassingly naive, it has to be said), but it just reached a point where I'd think, 'Look, you can't keep dumping your emotional baggage on me, you've got to learn to healthily process your emotions'. Though that can be a lot easier said than done, as I've since found out, particularly when you've got a lot of unresolved trauma and emotional wounding. Relationships will tend to follow the same predictable patterns if you don't, though.

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, aurum said:

Here is a list of things I've learned from self-reflecting and participating in this thread:

- I've put unnecessary pressure on women in the past to have sex quickly. I can remember several situations where a girl would be clearly attracted to me, but just not ready to have sex. And I cut them off immediately. In truth, these were breakthrough moments for me. Prior to that, I had struggled with expressing my needs and drawing boundaries. So this actually felt quite empowering. But looking back I can see that it was still largely immature and reactionary behavior. Not balanced.

- I need to focus on building on a proper foundation for a relationship. I've found success in the past with having random hookups, but it almost always ended the exact same way. Either:

a) she would never speak to be again afterwards

b) she would get totally obsessed with me and clingy

PUAs almost always chalk up girls in camp a to "you just didn't fuck her good enough" or "it's a numbers game". They don't really care if girls stick around because they tend to not want them to stick around anyway.

For the girls in camp b, you could easily make them your girlfriend. This is true. They are highly emotionally invested in you and would be thrilled if you settled down with them. But the reality with these girls is that it was never enough. I would give, give and give and it felt like pouring into a black hole. They were still clingy and always wanted more of me, more of my time, more of my attention. Drawing a boundary didn't help. Because fundamentally, they probably weren't happy in the relationship and didn't feel like I was meeting their needs. So fuck your boundary. Eventually it would get to a point where I'd be burnt out, frustrated and would end it with them.

Now you could say "yeah bro, those girls exist, stay away". But WHY was I attracting those girls? Why was it always one of these two situations? Why have I struggled to attract someone more solid?

I think it's because I have not focused on building foundation. All emotional spikes, not much substance. I was still closed off to deeper levels of love and a deeper relationship / commitment, and my resistance attracted their neediness. We perfectly triggered each other. Or they just dropped me entirely.

- Social circle is the way to go. I've been writing about the benefits of social circle when it comes to dating for a while now. And for guys who have been "friendzoned" in the past, they're very suspicious of it. But it seems obvious to me that once you have a solid foundation as a man, social circle is clearly superior to the alternative of cold approach. Granted, there may be some occasions where a cold approach is warranted. It's not black or white. But all in all, having a strong social circle is going to be vastly beneficial for meeting your dating needs, no matter what they are. Friends > PUA lines.

- It's time to slow down. I've been getting an intuition for a while now that it's really time for me to slow down. Build something real. Let it evolve on its own. And I feel this thread has confirmed those suspicions.

I realize for guys who struggle to even get the time of day from a girl, these problems might seem ridiculous. If you've got no girl, a clingy girl or a girl who fucks you and leaves still seems pretty good. And that's fair enough, I've been there. Do what you got to do to learn the dating game, nothing wrong with that. But I can promise you that if you keep growing, these ideas will occur to you. And you may want to reconsider your choices at that point.

Grateful for everyone who participated in this thread.

That’s good that you’ve grown to this point. I personally don’t really respond to cold approach, and most women don’t. I have mostly relied on my social circle to find partners because it’s just a better experience.

Plus, at the times where I was receptive to hook ups, I was dealing with lots of boundary issues. And that’s because, at age 20, I lost my entire social circle within the course of a couple months. And my parents weren’t talking the to me. And I got evicted. And I only had one friend of mine who let me sleep on her couch. And I lost 30 pounds because I was dealing with food scarcity.

And I slept with like 6 guys in 2 months (4 of which happened in a 2 week timespan) after having only been with one guy in my life.

And I was really leaning into sex with random guys to fill a void in my life. I was so alone in the world and broken up that, if a random man asked me to go to his place I would rationalize that “I’m just going to hang out for a bit and if he tries to kiss me fine but I won’t have sex.” And then, because I was genuinely all alone in the world once the man would kiss me, I wouldn’t be able to stop sex from happening. And I would sometimes say no a few times before he wore me down.

But honestly, I was so alone that when I would go out and busk on the street to earn money for food, I would walk back at 2am after the bars closed and I would feel very sad that I could have some random killer snatch me and that it would be a couple weeks before anyone would even begin looking for me.

And so I really had no capacity to say no to human interaction even though I would tell myself that I a just wanted to be alone. And the humans that wanted to interact most with me were strange men.

And I started to fetishize much older men who represented stability to me.  

So, I would guess that lots of women who are receptive to men who aren’t already in their social circle, are probably dealing with some self-esteem issues... and getting into anxious or avoidant tendencies. And they may have a weak social circle, which might cause them to over-rely on their partner for what they need.

And I say this with no judgment to them. I’ve been there before. But I tend to suspect it’s a sign of emotional troubles to be receptive to men doing cold approach.

[SamC]

58 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Stop trying to do the “wrong on both sides” argument.

That just isn’t accurate. It’s just the middle ground fallacy dressed up as the voice of reason.

The women on here ARE misunderstood and deliberately so.

The men on here FEEL misunderstood when they are not.

@EmeraldWtf who decides this? You?

You can't say that men are not missunderstood, that only makes men who are missunderstood more missunderstood and proves my point.

It's not about who is repressed or who is the bad guy. It's about acknowledging that both men and woman missunderstand/shame eachother for everything becuase men feel hurt by woman and woman feel hurt by men.

Both are enmeshed in their own trauma.

Of fucking course woman have been  repressed by men for milina, I am not denying anything or saying that woman isn't missunderstood or missunderstood less, like Idc who is what. 

Woman have suffered enormously ( + 10000 * more than men)  and still do and men need to understand woman a loooot better ( me included) don't come with the argument that woman shouldn't try to understand men better and acknowlde their feelings as real and legitimate and instead falsely them with that's just what they " feel". You do the same thing to men that men do to you. Notice that!

Quote

 

Also, women are dealing with the aftermath of thousands of years of having their perspectives totally squelched. And this type of misogyny hits very deep individual and collective wounds that relate directly to women’s oppression.

So it is quite normal and natural for these wounds to get triggered when women are unilaterally gaslit about their own desires and instincts.

Yes but notice that it is a wound that have created a split in all womans psychie, hence woman have learned to do the same thing to yourself and to other people.

The oppression of woman and feminity have made woman push men and masculinity away from them. 

If I would punsh someone, I first need to missunderstand you/ see the person  as separate from me. When that then happens the person who is punished will separate even more from me which only enhances the separation and the pattern repeats.

Of course woman pushes men away, it's understandable but also notice that in order to heal - the femine must murge with the shadow again. The femine and masculine must unity and understand eachother.

37 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

If you understand women better, you'd be misunderstood less by them. 

By understanding them right, you'll be in flow with them. By denying this, you're only looking to impose yourself on women, which never works and leads you to be misunderstood by them

@Preety_IndiaSure I 100% agree but it goes both ways. It's about learning to understand EVERYONE and making EVERYONE feel loved. Not just men or woman.

Maybe I am missing, something. I probably am missing something that I am not aware of that I'll be able to see clearly in a couple of months... but men are also missunderstood and deserves to be understood just like woman do.

When either part denies the feelings of the other - division, shaming and hatred occurs. When both parties tries to understand eachoter, love and union occurs.

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by SamC

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That’s good that you’ve grown to this point. I personally don’t really respond to cold approach, and most women don’t. I have mostly relied on my social circle to find partners because it’s just a better experience.

Plus, at the times where I was receptive to hook ups, I was dealing with lots of boundary issues. And that’s because, at age 20, I lost my entire social circle within the course of a couple months. And my parents weren’t talking the to me. And I got evicted. And I only had one friend of mine who let me sleep on her couch. And I lost 30 pounds because I was dealing with food scarcity.

And I slept with like 6 guys in 2 months (4 of which happened in a 2 week timespan) after having only been with one guy in my life.

And I was really leaning into sex with random guys to fill a void in my life. I was so alone in the world and broken up that, if a random man asked me to go to his place I would rationalize that “I’m just going to hang out for a bit and if he tries to kiss me fine but I won’t have sex.” And then, because I was genuinely all alone in the world once the man would kiss me, I wouldn’t be able to stop sex from happening. And I would sometimes say no a few times before he wore me down.

But honestly, I was so alone that when I would go out and busk on the street to earn money for food, I would walk back at 2am after the bars closed and I would feel very sad that I could have some random killer snatch me and that it would be a couple weeks before anyone would even begin looking for me.

And so I really had no capacity to say no to human interaction even though I would tell myself that I a just wanted to be alone. And the humans that wanted to interact most with me were strange men.

And I started to fetishize much older men who represented stability to me.  

So, I would guess that lots of women who are receptive to men who aren’t already in their social circle, are probably dealing with some self-esteem issues... and getting into anxious or avoidant tendencies. And they may have a weak social circle, which might cause them to over-rely on their partner for what they need.

And I say this with no judgment to them. I’ve been there before. But I tend to suspect it’s a sign of emotional troubles to be receptive to men doing cold approach.

 I'm sorry you had to go through so much. I'm glad that you wonderfully recovered from it all.

On the flipside, I can now understand why women are receptive to cold approach.

 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, SamC said:

Sure I 100% agree but it goes both ways. It's about learning to understand EVERYONE and making EVERYONE feel loved. Not just men or woman.

Maybe I am missing, something. I probably am missing something that I am not aware of that I'll be able to see clearly in a couple of months... but men are also missunderstood and deserves to be understood just like woman do.

When either part denies the feelings of the other - division, shaming and hatred occurs. When both parties tries to understand eachoter, love and union occurs.

You're looking to be understood without understanding the other ? Can you notice this ?