Struggling with Blackpill

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

What is superficial about trying to get a gf?

You aren't doing that. You simply want a gf but you don't want intimacy. You don't want to build anything.

You want a gf the way a woman buys expensive porcelain from a store..

You don't want a relationship, simply a girl.

The girls flake on you because they sense that you can't offer them anything.

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

14 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

What is superficial about trying to get a gf?

You're going for women who are only looking for validation. You're giving them the ego boost. You're giving them validation..

If you genuinely connect with a woman like a friend and not give her ego boosts and invite her, your chances of getting a genuine woman are very high.

You're looking in the wrong place. You want a true gf then such women are not that. They are users.

I can't get a genuine bf by being around players. Same way. You're being around the female version of players. They will use you for ego boost and spit you out. Not much different from players who will use a woman for sex and spit her out.

To make genuine connections, you need to be in the right place and use the right approach.

The approach you're using will drive away real women causing them to be repulsed/repelled. They will see you as someone who doesn't value genuine connection and they will refuse to be with you..those who will accept you are the ones looking for ego boost likes. 

So the strategy (I should not use the word strategy honestly) is to re-orient your approach and develop intimacy and real connection with someone without coming off as desperate for sex. Challenge them. See if they're ready for a relationship. You told me last time that you don't want to waste too much time in texting or talking. But the way you're approaching, you're still wasting time in some way getting flaked by every new girl. Because it's a waste of time approaching and simply getting rejected. What's the point if the end result is empty ? You could have spent this time developing a genuine connection? So you need to widen your social circuit

I have ruminated over your problem for 3 days 

I think you are being very passive and doing all sorts of wrong things in the name of pickup. Of course I appreciate your hard work..

But get a grip. Be friends with a girl. With many girls. Be flirty with as many women as possible. Don't be desperate. Just keep flirty. I'm sure someone with whom you have an engaging conversation will want something more out of you 

Don't be with social media savvy girls.

Try to be with girls who are really submissive to you. 

Who care to listen to you. Who give you attention, not the other way around..

I'm sorry I understood you all wrong the first time. Your posts were very confusing to me 

A submissive girl will suit a guy like you and most likely she won't flake on you. But she has to be a simple girl. Not too fashionable 

 

 

[StarStruck]

@Preety_India I got one female friend but she has already a bf. 

I made some other platonic gfs, like two, both of them have bfs. And I just wanted to hang out with them. And she says it is not appropriate, although she gave me her phone number. 

I'm already doing what you are saying. I'm building up an emotional connection and just having fun. 

What they say is this: If you approach 100 girls, 20 girl will give their number and only 5 will go on a date. 

I'm not even getting that kind of result. Girls are just using me for their ego gratification but probably there is also something else.

One girl literally said to me that she didn't told me she has a bf because she liked the attention she got from me. After she told that to me she was kind of embarrassed about her honesty. 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, StarStruck said:

@Preety_India I got one female friend but she has already a bf. 

I made some other platonic gfs, like two, both of them have bfs. And I just wanted to hang out with them. And she says it is not appropriate, although she gave me her phone number. 

I'm already doing what you are saying. I'm building up an emotional connection and just having fun. 

What they say is this: If you approach 100 girls, 20 girl will give their number and only 5 will go on a date. 

I'm not even getting that kind of result. Girls are just using me for their ego gratification but probably there is also something else.

One girl literally said to me that she didn't told me she has a bf because she liked the attention she got from me. After she told that to me she was kind of embarrassed about her honesty. 

I guess you need to ramp up the kind of people you are wanting. 

You're looking in low quality crowd that is looking for validation. 

Engage with people who want deeper connections. Maybe look in spiritual circles 

You're dealing with some fake shit so you're getting flaked.

Try to be around some real people who actually care about your time.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Why is selfish being wrong as long as it doesn't hurt anyone ?

Selfishness is not wrong.

But viewing things as wrong IS selfishness

[StarStruck]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I guess you need to ramp up the kind of people you are wanting. 

You're looking in low quality crowd that is looking for validation. 

Engage with people who want deeper connections. Maybe look in spiritual circles 

You're dealing with some fake shit so you're getting flaked.

Try to be around some real people who actually care about your time.

 

 

That is like trying to find a needle in a haystack: spiritual girls are rare here. Most of stage orange. Currently just lightening up the phone number of girls that flake on me. I just want honest answers. I'm kind of done with being nice. Girls want a guy who know what he wants and knows how to get it. What I need to learn is to value my own time and not take bullshit. It is about building up character. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by StarStruck

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

That is like trying to find a needle in a haystack: spiritual girls are rare here. Most of stage orange. Currently just lightening up the phone number of girls that flake on me. I just want honest answers. I'm kind of done with being nice. Girls want a guy who know what he wants and knows how to get it. What I need to learn is to value my own time and not take bullshit. It is about building up character. 

In order to get honest answers, you need honest people.

 

[Etherial Cat]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Selfishness is not wrong.

But viewing things as wrong IS selfishness

Depends what is hiding behind the concept of selfishness maybe?

Selfishness in the traditional lingo is the fulfillment of an ego-made sense of self's agenda without caring for your meta, holistic Self which is all what is. And this is "bad".

But selfishness as a misnomer for Self-Love and giving yourself what you need and can enjoy while being still loving to "others" is totally fine and even optimum.

This is the real "selfishness"... being so selfish that you give to all fragment of Yourself what it needs and deserve, beyond the little ego .

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's the woman's survival agenda. It makes sense if you are a woman.

You guys have a hard time grasping the relativity of survival agendas.

What's good for your finite self is bad for some other finite self. This is the nature of all finite things.

Yep! 

For men (especially men with a small social circle), pick up is useful as attracting is the main challenge.

For women, attracting isn’t that much of a challenge, so there are much slower and more gratifying ways to meet and get to know a man just through organic socializing.

Sorting the wheat from the chaff is the main challenge for women.

So, even though I get why a lot of men do cold approach and can see why it’s useful to them, I would consider it poor strategy for a woman to invest any time or energy into men who try to sell themselves to you immediately.

[flowboy]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

That is like trying to find a needle in a haystack: spiritual girls are rare here. Most of stage orange. Currently just lightening up the phone number of girls that flake on me. I just want honest answers. I'm kind of done with being nice. Girls want a guy who know what he wants and knows how to get it. What I need to learn is to value my own time and not take bullshit. It is about building up character. 

What is your life about?

Can they sense a strong purpose from you?

What else are you doing with your time that is meaningful to you and that you are passionate about? Are you showing that?

[StarStruck]

11 minutes ago, flowboy said:

What is your life about?

Can they sense a strong purpose from you?

What else are you doing with your time that is meaningful to you and that you are passionate about? Are you showing that?

I'm kind of depressed and I don't have a strong purpose. Context: I'm working on trauma's.

Focusing on healing myself. That would be my purpose right now. 

[flowboy]

9 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I'm kind of depressed and I don't have a strong purpose.

People can sense that when they interact with you.

So it's best to work on that too, and your flake numbers will go down.

You don't have to have a Life Purpose (TM) fully figured out, but some activity that you are passionate about and brings you enthusiasm will already make a difference. Some hobby, workshop or sport that you always wanted to try, but didn't have time for or were scared of. Anything.

Now you have something to talk about that is authentic to you. Girls want passion. They want something that is interesting about you, that they can sense is authentic. Otherwise you're just "some guy".

Edited July 21, 2021 by flowboy

[StarStruck]

3 hours ago, flowboy said:

People can sense that when they interact with you.

So it's best to work on that too, and your flake numbers will go down.

You don't have to have a Life Purpose (TM) fully figured out, but some activity that you are passionate about and brings you enthusiasm will already make a difference. Some hobby, workshop or sport that you always wanted to try, but didn't have time for or were scared of. Anything.

Now you have something to talk about that is authentic to you. Girls want passion. They want something that is interesting about you, that they can sense is authentic. Otherwise you're just "some guy".

True. It is about the heart chakra. Loving the self, loving life, having passions, loving her, loving the life purpose. 

[4201]

8 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

How would you know that?

Sincerely...

Being enlightened doesn't stop you from playing ego-games  I agree that, relatively speaking, 2 lovers can suspend ego momentarily. But then they will continue to do human things as though they are humans, don't you agree? 

Regardless of which identifications you currently hold, there is value in defining "survival agenda" from the point of view of bodies surviving and reproducing themselves rather than from the point of view of a bunch of current identifications. There is no value to the concept of "survival agenda" if it just means "my current state of mind". It would better be defined as the most true desires of the body.

In my direct point of view, identification with the body is no different than identification with the most stupid and painful of ideas but when judging people from a 3rd person view (as we were doing in this conversation), we can judge the identifications based off of our external point of view.

You can bash your head against the wall, because you identify as being stupid or lost but that's not fullfilling your "survival agenda" or "true desire" in my opinion. At least it doesn't seem to be effective survival when it comes to surviving bodies.

We can let go of the distinction of effective vs uneffective survival which is what you were trying to make me let go in this conversation. Fair enough we can let go of it but in this context the concept of "survival agenda" loses all it's meaning and the claim that survival agenda always conflict will not mean anything anymore.

But even if you want to let go of this distinction, there exists a definition of "survival agenda" by which 2 parties can have them their survival agendas not conflict, since they can define the concept to anything they want. In which case my point stands.

 

I don't think the suspension of ego is necessarily a temporary thing, that is an idea you have about ego suspension. 

9 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

This shit appears HIGHLY layered. I call this observation "complexity."

Highly layered as opposed to what? Reality is all there is, if you define it as something you are creating a distinction as it being different from something else.

[flowboy]

8 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

True. It is about the heart chakra. Loving the self, loving life, having passions, loving her, loving the life purpose. 

And bonus: your life will be more fun! Healing and fun are better than healing alone.

[Karmadhi]

@RendHeaven An attack on titan video on this forumn.

love itttttt

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

I would consider it poor strategy for a woman to invest any time or energy into men who try to sell themselves to you immediately.

Yeah, well, the whole point of pickup is that it makes all such logic irrelevant since attraction is not logical.

So you can tell yourself you will never sleep with a guy who "sells himself" to you, but when you meet an attractive, high value guy, all that logic will become irrelevant.

Emotion > logic

Doubly so for women.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, well, the whole point of pickup is that it makes all such logic irrelevant since attraction is not logical.

So you can tell yourself you will never sleep with a guy who "sells himself" to you, but when you meet an attractive, high value guy, all that logic will become irrelevant.

Emotion > logic

Doubly so for women.

Absolutely... emotion ALWAYS trumps logic. That’s actually a huge facet of the point I’m making. Don’t go for any guy who feels emotionally lukewarm to you.

But my experience has been that it takes a few months for the emotion to hit a fever pitch. It’s like a very slow boil.

And it’s that heart-centered fever pitch that makes me soften and be motivated to merge with a man. 

You see, I find the IDEA of a relationship unappetizing. They seem really boring to me when I see others in them. And unless I have feelings for someone, the thought of finding a relationship doesn’t compel me. And sex is a bit ‘meh’ without the fever pitch too.

So, I really need to be completely drowning in a river of loving, erotic emotions to really soften up and feel compelled toward seeking a relationship with given man.

For a guy I just met, (if I actually allowed myself to be receptive to his advances)... he can maybe hit 3 or 4 out of 10 if he’s really good with seduction because the loins-centered feelings can still be aroused without the slow boiling required for the heart/centered feelings. And pick-up works for evoking mostly loins-centered feelings.

But from my experience, I can tell you that that’s really not that motivating, unless you’re horny or lonely... or you you’re more worried about simply having a relationship rather than seeking a quality emotional experience.

This is why, even if I’m only looking at this through the lens of the potential for feeling certain emotions, I recommend being unreceptive to cold approaches. 

It’s a bit like saying, “Don’t spoil your appetite on the McDonalds hamburger of feeling-states, when you can be patient and hold out for the 5-star restaurant dish of feeling-states.”

There’s just a clear qualitative difference in the feelings your capable of experiencing with a man you’ve known a while and had time to build up the intimacy, tension, and anticipation with... compared to the quality of emotion capable of being experienced with a guy you just met... even if he’s a bonafide seduction master.

So, my recommendation to women is to stay non-receptive to any guy who’s Johnny on the spot.

Just make it clear to him in the first minute that you’re not interested and he’ll move on to the next. It’s honestly as easy as hanging up on a telemarketer.

Then just save your appetite for a while until a man in your circle really sparks your interest.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Emerald

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

There is no value to the concept of "survival agenda" if it just means "my current state of mind". It would better be defined as the most true desires of the body.

That definition sounds like something decided by a current state of mind >:D

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

We can let go of the distinction of effective vs uneffective survival which is what you were trying to make me let go in this conversation. Fair enough we can let go of it but in this context the concept of "survival agenda" loses all it's meaning and the claim that survival agenda always conflict will not mean anything anymore.

Actually I might've even been wondering, is there something effective about non-bodily survival? Might we do it unconsciously precisely because it is effective?

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

You can bash your head against the wall, because you identify as being stupid or lost but that's not fullfilling your "survival agenda" or "true desire" in my opinion. At least it doesn't seem to be effective survival when it comes to surviving bodies.

Like, maybe self-sabotage is actually effective survival. Literally.

I'm not too sure where I'm going with this, it's just a vague intuition...

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

I don't think the suspension of ego is necessarily a temporary thing, that is an idea you have about ego suspension. 

10 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Yes, it is an idea. But that doesn't disqualify its relative truth.

Ego, survival... all of this occurs within a relative framework. Looking at things Absolutely, you couldn't even say that there was ever an ego.

So since we're presupposing an ego in this conversation, I'd like to imagine that we're then able to say intelligible things about its nature.

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

Highly layered as opposed to what? Reality is all there is, if you define it as something you are creating a distinction as it being different from something else.

Lmaoo

I understand that you don't like Leo's absolutist terminology because the promise of an alternative grips your intuition.

I don't necessarily agree with Leo's claim in its entirety, I'm just noticing that the answer is not a binary "he's right or he's wrong."

As in - even if we conclude that Leo's absolutist terminology turns out to be unholistic, what relative truth can we glean nonetheless from his position? He's onto something when he tries to drag our attention towards conflict of survival.

[Hello from Russia]

@Emerald The only prob is that sleeping with such a guy will actually generally give you a taste of high end luxury meal, while generally speaking you can only afford going to Mcdonalds on a daily basis (Be in a committed relationship with less alpha male), which is why, I think, women sleep/hangout with such guys so easily