Anhedonia

[Kelley White]

Thank you @ModernSage.  These look like they might be very good tools.  I have to get read for an appointment now, but when I come back I will try to check them out before I get back to coursework.  Thank you so much for sharing them.  

3 minutes ago, ModernSage said:

Action expresses priorities

- Mohandas Gandhi.

Make your own happiness a priority today.

---

 

Also i thought that since your attention span is low you can use the pomodoro technique which really helps.

 

 

Also watch these videos here on Motivation. Kudos to the amazing guys of Asapscience on youtube.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kelley White]

@Ryan_047 My good Morning, your Good evening, 

How are you?  So first I want to thank you.  The book I'm reading is from Leo's course, so I'm not going to give away the title of the book...but the book is about heroes and the journey's they can choose to take.  Its normally something I could get into really easily and I've been struggling since things don't seem like to much fun and I can't focus like you are feeling right? 

I had to wait for a friend during an appointment? 

I thought if Ryan can read for 15 minutes since he's 15, I should read for at least 53 minutes since I'm 53 to make it fair.

So I sat in the waiting room and read for almost 50 minutes.  

The reason I stopped?  A young girl with short red hair who looked to be about 16 or so came in with a  stuffed bear that was bigger than she was, and we started chatting as she was showing me some of her artwork.  (She was a very good artist) 

So I wanted to thank you for helping me make some progress in my reading. 

I hope you are doing well this evening, that your father is feeling a bit better and perhaps things are less stressful? 

How did you do with your reading?

What was the most positive exciting thing about your day yesterday that made you feel happy for a moment?

I look forward to hearing back from you @Ryan_047.

 

 

[Ryan_047]

2 hours ago, Kelley White said:

@Ryan_047 My good Morning, your Good evening, 

How are you?  So first I want to thank you.  The book I'm reading is from Leo's course, so I'm not going to give away the title of the book...but the book is about heroes and the journey's they can choose to take.  Its normally something I could get into really easily and I've been struggling since things don't seem like to much fun and I can't focus like you are feeling right? 

I had to wait for a friend during an appointment? 

I thought if Ryan can read for 15 minutes since he's 15, I should read for at least 53 minutes since I'm 53 to make it fair.

So I sat in the waiting room and read for almost 50 minutes.  

The reason I stopped?  A young girl with short red hair who looked to be about 16 or so came in with a  stuffed bear that was bigger than she was, and we started chatting as she was showing me some of her artwork.  (She was a very good artist) 

So I wanted to thank you for helping me make some progress in my reading. 

I hope you are doing well this evening, that your father is feeling a bit better and perhaps things are less stressful? 

How did you do with your reading?

What was the most positive exciting thing about your day yesterday that made you feel happy for a moment?

I look forward to hearing back from you @Ryan_047.

 

 

First of all,you asked me what I am reading.I am reading Harry Potter.I read the book for about 25 minutes,even though I should have read for 15 minutes.I needed more time to finish the chapter.Honestly,I felt an emotion of encouragement  because you wanted to help me.But just a very very tiny emotion.

Well,I made a person laugh.But I didn't felt nothing even though the joke I made was really funny.I couldn't laugh or feel good because I made somebody feel better.

I am watching ModernSage's videos and read his advices(and yours as well) but I just feel nothing...I feel like I have no desires,no will or wish to push forward,just nothing.When I read that book yesterday I felt like I could  keep on reading (that means that I like it),but I just felt no pleasure.Even the nagative emotions are not as they used to be.I got mad on somebody,but I just didn't felt the nervousness.I know that it sounds weird,and maybe it is hard to understand(I think that if I would have seen what I am writing right now,2 years ago I wouldn't understand either).I am forcing myself to meditate because I know that I should do something to get out of this state,but I have no motivation to do it.

You remember when I told you that there are times when I get frustrated and become violent?Even then I can't feel the emotions as I should.I mean,I know how they should feel,but what I feel in those moments is a mix of neutrality and frustration(that goes for the positive emotions as well).I am doing research on anhedonia on the internet but I find no cure!Oh my God..I wish I would be depressed or sad,at least I would feel something!

[Kelley White]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_047 said:

First of all,you asked me what I am reading.I am reading Harry Potter.I read the book for about 25 minutes,even though I should have read for 15 minutes.I needed more time to finish the chapter.Honestly,I felt an emotion of encouragement  because you wanted to help me.But just a very very tiny emotion.

@Ryan_047 Hi!  So i hear a tiny seed of hope?  You had a tiny tiny bit of emotion?  Good for you!  I mean, you have to be brave for mom and for Dad because of all these adult problems, and you as a kid don't want to be a bother?  Is that perhaps the idea?  I mean I don't know, I'm just wondering?

So do you think you might be shutting down your feelings so you don't bother other folks?  You're being brave?  Again I don't know I'm just wondering?

Maybe you think you are being weak and bothersome if you feel, like if you feel what is really going on, Dad's sick, mom's worried, money, if you really feel it all it might just be too much so you don't allow yourself to go there? 

Again, I really don't know, this could be me and my stuff...but a thought? 

Maybe just think about this and let me know what you think about it tomorrow? (It a lot to think about.)

I am really proud of you that you followed through, thank you.  

How does it make you feel that you followed through?  (Just think about this for a bit and see what comes without judging it.)

8 minutes ago, Ryan_047 said:

Well,I made a person laugh.But I didn't felt nothing even though the joke I made was really funny.I couldn't laugh or feel good because I made somebody feel better.

Okay, so you just observed you are making someone feel better, telling them a joke, but not feeling anything?  I want to be sure this is really 100% true.  Why did you want to make her feel better?  What feeling made you act and tell the joke to see her laugh?  Can you name that feeling?

11 minutes ago, Ryan_047 said:

I am watching ModernSage's videos and read his advices(and yours as well) but I just feel nothing...I feel like I have no desires,no will or wish to push forward,just nothing.When I read that book yesterday I felt like I could  keep on reading (that means that I like it),but I just felt no pleasure.Even the nagative emotions are not as they used to be.I got mad on somebody,but I just didn't felt the nervousness.I know that it sounds weird,and maybe it is hard to understand(I think that if I would have seen what I am writing right now,2 years ago I wouldn't understand either).I am forcing myself to meditate because I know that I should do something to get out of this state,but I have no motivation to do it.

@ModernSage posted some good shares.  I use many of those myself.  Sometimes, I can't make them work for me either. 

This sounds like serious clinical depression based upon situations you are going through right now.  Now I say sounds, because just like you, I cannot diagnosis, and I know you are focused upon a specific diagnosis that you read about which you think sounds like it fits you.  If you don't go to a Doctor who has studied these things for years?  You are guessing without all the facts and skills and education to make that decision.  I see three doctors right now okay?  3.  They help me.

So as a responsible adult and a mom and grand-mom myself, I am going to recommend again, that you talk to your mom and dad so they can get you some help.  Don't just assume the only help will be medicine and don't just assume that all medicine is bad since sometimes medicine was bad.  Now that is kind of some straight advice here, but I want to make sure you are safe and what you are describing sounds like you have very adult hings going on, and you are stressed and trying got be brave, but you need some help.  Its okay to need help.   So I hope you can re think about talking to your folks or another adult you trust in your physical area. 

17 minutes ago, Ryan_047 said:

You remember when I told you that there are times when I get frustrated and become violent?Even then I can't feel the emotions as I should.I mean,I know how they should feel,but what I feel in those moments is a mix of neutrality and frustration(that goes for the positive emotions as well).I am doing research on anhedonia on the internet but I find no cure!Oh my God..I wish I would be depressed or sad,at least I would feel something!

I am going to make a suggestion that might sound like something very counter intuitive to do.  Stop doing the research on anhedonia for awhile.  

There is a concept called the biology of belief.  When you take psychology classes in colleges, they warn you, you are going to take this class and think you have every one of these diseases.   Its really is true to some degree.  These labels are tools to describe a spectrum of behaviors which may or may not fall within the range of what most folks do.  What most folks do?  We call normal.  Now I don't know about you personally, there are some things most folks do, I'm rather glad I don't do.   Anyhoo, focus on I am this, I have that, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

Have you ever thought that maybe rather than expecting yourself to feel, or feel positive while you're still a teenager and you have all these adult kind of responsibilities....get help from your folks, see a doctor and talk with your folks and the doctor about the options you feel best with, keep it simple and keep doing those few things you are doing and build on those successes when you can credit yourself or enjoy them?  Tomorrows itsy bitsy becomes longer tomorrow.   Some days we might go backwards.  Other days, we might surprise ourselves.

For me, I am trying to be very good about coming here, versus going other places right now so I stay positive and I have support.  So I'm just going to let you think about these things and then you can let me know your thoughts when you feel ready.  Okay? 

Thank you.  I really appreciate you sticking with through this with me. 

 

[Kelley White]

Maybe @ModernSage has some different videos he can share with us today? @Ryan_047

[DanoDMano]

@Ryan_047  Greetings Ryan. You express yourself very well. Great trait to have many do not have this talent. You've been given some great advice here and I'm sure you can tell that many of us feel for you. I went through those types of feelings as well. Here's what I did and over time it seemed to help. Every day I wrote my feelings onto paper (we didn't have the net / computers back then).

What am feeling? Why am I feeling this way? What bugs me? What can I do (lists)? What happened today? Here's my plan. Here's my goals. Just write everything in your head. Remove the clutter and confusion, writing helps.

I have journals from 35 years ago that I can read from those days and MAN!! What a different time makes. What your feeling now can change in an instant sometimes. Sometimes you just need patients. Find anything positive in your life and concentrate on that. You make think to yourself I have nothing positive and you know what? That's ok, you may not realize it now but these things your feeling are actually a part of your growth and your life journey. Sometimes we have to start from scratch in our life to clean the slate and start new. Maybe that's what's happening to you now.

Your so young brother, give yourself a chance to grow and you'll find your path in life.  Have patients and your path will find you. Take care.

[Ryan_047]

@Kelley White

Yes,you are 100% right.I don't want to be a bother for my parents.I mean,with all those problems I don't want to come through and become another problem.I also have problems with my nose(I cannot breathe properly).I struggled to tell my parents about this,and I told them.I will see a doctor next summer,kinda late right?..My mom is working very much and she doesn't have too much time(she is the only person that brings money into the house).And even if I wanted I couldn't appeal to my father.Now,please look from this perspective..We barely have time and money for a doctor,but for a psychologist that would help me cure my depression/anhedonia?

I don't know,the joke just came..I didn't thought about it.To be honest I didn't had the intention to make that person feel better in the first place.The joke just came out of my mouth.If I think more about it...I guess I felt something,but as always,a tiny emotion(not very sure if I felt the emotion).

You know,sometimes I can watch a funny YouTube video keeping a straight face very easy.The video  is funny,but I can't see something that would make me laugh.Although,this is not always the case,sometimes I can laugh.Weird isn't it?Yesterday,I was thinking about how I am,and I felt like I wanted to cry,but I couldn't.I forced myself to,but I  barely got some tears out of my eyes.

Because of medication and money,sometimes my parents had fights.One day my mom almost used the knife to do something to herself(I guess you understand what I am trying to say),because she was so stressed and she couldn't take it anymore.That was another shocking moment for me.This is why I want to overcome this situation by myself and not count on others.I think that my emotions are not 100% dead,as I said,I can still feel them but in a very low percent.Even so,I have faith that I can overcome this situation.

Today,I am feeling a little lit better(it was my birthday).Today was no stress,no problems.Even though,I was a little bit sad,because I couldn't feel any pleasure in eating my cake.

Thank you again for trying to help me,I really hope I'm not disturbing you with such long replies and with hearing my problems.One of the last thing I want,is to disturb others..

[Ryan_047]

@DanoDMano

As I said before,I can barely feel anything.This exercise would help me even so?For example,in the reply that I just wrote to Kelley I said that I forced myself to cry,even though I couldn't feel the sadness to much.So in this case,I can write that I am sad?

[Ayla]

@Ryan_047 ,

I would like to propose an exercise to you if you are up to it? 

Write down you problem again, in more more than 3 phrases. Encompass it all. As if you wrote a small letter to God. 

This exercise helped me A LOT when I was having difficulties in my life. Because the more i was cutting off the chatter, the more the problem disappeared. Try it.  

[Ryan_047]

@Ayla

Sorry,can you please go in more depth?I am not sure what "encompass" means.Drawing a circle?(that's what Google Translate tells me).

[Ayla]

Just now, Ryan_047 said:

@Ayla

Sorry,can you please go in more depth?I am not sure what "encompass" means.Drawing a circle?(that's what Google Translate tells me).

It means that you need to look at every detail of your problem as a whole, your complete story, and dismiss what is not truly important, until you only arrive at 3 sentences that express what you feel

 

[DanoDMano]

3 hours ago, Ayla said:

@Ryan_047 ,

I would like to propose an exercise to you if you are up to it? 

Write down you problem again, in more more than 3 phrases. Encompass it all. As if you wrote a small letter to God. 

This exercise helped me A LOT when I was having difficulties in my life. Because the more i was cutting off the chatter, the more the problem disappeared. Try it.  

@Ryan_047  Exactly I completely agree with quote. You need to look deeper within yourself for answers, not simply the emotions themselves.

[Kelley White]

On 2/13/2016 at 8:49 AM, Ryan_047 said:

@Kelley White

Yes,you are 100% right.I don't want to be a bother for my parents.I mean,with all those problems I don't want to come through and become another problem.I also have problems with my nose(I cannot breathe properly).I struggled to tell my parents about this,and I told them.I will see a doctor next summer,kinda late right?..My mom is working very much and she doesn't have too much time(she is the only person that brings money into the house).And even if I wanted I couldn't appeal to my father.Now,please look from this perspective..We barely have time and money for a doctor,but for a psychologist that would help me cure my depression/anhedonia?

I don't know,the joke just came..I didn't thought about it.To be honest I didn't had the intention to make that person feel better in the first place.The joke just came out of my mouth.If I think more about it...I guess I felt something,but as always,a tiny emotion(not very sure if I felt the emotion).

You know,sometimes I can watch a funny YouTube video keeping a straight face very easy.The video  is funny,but I can't see something that would make me laugh.Although,this is not always the case,sometimes I can laugh.Weird isn't it?Yesterday,I was thinking about how I am,and I felt like I wanted to cry,but I couldn't.I forced myself to,but I  barely got some tears out of my eyes.

Because of medication and money,sometimes my parents had fights.One day my mom almost used the knife to do something to herself(I guess you understand what I am trying to say),because she was so stressed and she couldn't take it anymore.That was another shocking moment for me.This is why I want to overcome this situation by myself and not count on others.I think that my emotions are not 100% dead,as I said,I can still feel them but in a very low percent.Even so,I have faith that I can overcome this situation.

Today,I am feeling a little lit better(it was my birthday).Today was no stress,no problems.Even though,I was a little bit sad,because I couldn't feel any pleasure in eating my cake.

Thank you again for trying to help me,I really hope I'm not disturbing you with such long replies and with hearing my problems.One of the last thing I want,is to disturb others..

Hi!   @Ryan_047

First I owe you an apology.  I forgot to tell you I am not online weekends.  I apologize.  You were definitely on my mind. 

Second, Happy Belated Birthday!  So you just turned 16?    Congratulations!  Tell me about your cake?  What kind was it?  Did you do anything else for your Birthday?

You are not bothering me at all, nor, as we can see are you bothering anyone else.  That's a fear we have when we are in  pain because pain and fear are challenging emotions to deal with.

Being emotionally numb (not feeling) can be challenging.  I can hear with what you are describing that you are in a situation where the adults around you are struggling with some intense emotions, and they sound like very serious adult situations? 

I would ask you first to remember, you are just 16. 

You are not responsible for Mom, for Dad, you are responsible for you okay?  They are adults, they are responsible for them and for you. 

Now sometimes, moms and dads get sick.  If mom is so sad and depressed she tried to harm herself then mom is sick too, just with a different kind of illness okay?  Is she okay now?  How is your dad doing today? 

I want to acknowledge this is some serious adult stuff and its pretty normal that you are struggling to feel right now.   The adults are having a hard time coping, so I hope you can acknowledge first of all how awesome it is you are here, that you are aware, that is half of the battle right there.  Lots of 16 year old's in a second world, or even first world countries don't have that kind of courage.  Thank you for being so brave.

Let's focus on some more practical tools that might help you.

I like @Ayla and @DanoDMano idea about writing, but as a writer?  I know writing can be challenging to do when you don't feel motivated to do anything or get pleasure from anything.  Its also hard if you are not feeling to sort to the core issues and yes, you have to shoot for more than just a few sentences.

So, I have a couple of ideas for you to try today if you are game to try them.  Now just so you know...?  I've still kept that commitment to meditate and read.  So I'm still doing that with you.   Are you still doing the reading and meditating?   The mediating lets you observe what thoughts are coming and going.  Those can be clues to feelings.  Not feeling can be a defense mechanism to remain functioning, coping, because everything feels too overwhelming to feel.  It's okay to be there. 

So I learned a technique from a Doctor called expansive writing. 

Set a timer for ten minutes.  For today start with the sentence, "If I could feel I would.....?"

Write seven sentences where  you answer the question, "If I could feel I would ?"  (Example if I could feel I would cry.")

After you write your seven sentences I want you for ten minutes to write everything and anything that comes to your mind about feeling  and those seven sentences you first wrote.  

(I am going to tell you up front, when you are done?  You are going to rip this piece of paper up into little pieces and throw it away.   The reason the Doctor asks people to tear it up and throw it away?  You can be really, really honest because you won't worry about someone else reading it or what someone else might think.  Its just for you to figure out what you are really thinking and feeling since you are kind of disconnected. )

You can also write it on a computer where you can just delete it, but the brain activity is a little better if you do it with a pen and paper.  Either way do the one you feel the safest to do. 

So write for ten minutes.  Then look at your writing and find the common theme or themes you keep writing about.  Once you identify that?  We can come up with a new stem sentence for tomorrow for you to write about. 

Some of us learn when we write.  We don't learn from reading, or listening; we learn from writing.   You might be one of those people who once you write something, you see your thought process and find your feelings.  It might take time, and its not always a linear process.  (Linear process means its not a straight line from point a to point b.  It  means taking baby steps and sometimes you take a few back and you have to dust yourself off and  take a few more baby steps forward. )

That's really what self actualization is all about.  Little baby steps. 

Since you are having a challenging time feeling or naming the emotion you might be feeling?  I want you to find some music and listen to music with your headphones while you write. 

If in that moment you want to cry?  I want you to find a song or a movie clip that might have made you cry in the past and watch or listen to that while you write.  We call that self triggering.  You focus your focus on the sad so you can cry so you can get the sad out.

You can do the same thing if you are angry, or you want to feel happy.  Listen to angry music, or some happy music on your head phones, and do the exercise. 

Let's say you can't find your words.  Rather than write?  Draw?  Do you draw or do any kind of artwork?  You can substitute that for writing as well.   Even if you don't draw well, just go with color.  Adult coloring books?  They use the same brain functioning as meditation.  If you have challenges meditating?  Color for twenty minutes, there are coloring sites with adult Mandalas you can print and color. 

Sometimes the music triggers the emotion and the creative process helps you identify and release the things you are facing without doing something harmful to yourself or others.

Another thing you can do if you want to cry?  Get a rubber band and place it on your wrist.  Snap the rubber band on your wrist.  You can also use ice.  This is another tool counselors use to help people feel emotional pain but not self harm.

We already talked about you could punch the bed or scream into a pillow.  I could add some other things but I want to keep things simple.  For now...  Do you want to try the expansive writing exercise with music?  See if it begins to help?  If you do let me know.   Then you can do it and we can talk about how it went.?

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ryan_047]

@Kelley White

First of all,I am sorry for not responding.I was really busy with the school,I needed to study a lot this week and after I finished my homework I didn't wanted to do absolutely anything.

I did nothing special for my birthday to be honest.Some kin visited me.

I just did this exercise.The most common themes were about helping my family and my country,feeling sad or stressed,feeling motivated to live,wanting to practice my hobbies and my passions feeling pleasure from them.

My mom is alright now,that was just an episode.And my father is getting better.Things are moving in the right direction.For now,there shouldn't be a reason for me to feel stressed,not including the highschool.And I want to apologize too,due to my daily routine I wasn't able to read anymore,because I couldn't find any time for myself.

[Kelley White]

Good Morning @Ryan_047.  No worries, no apology required.  We are here to be of help to you.  Thank you for checking in  so I know you are doing better.  I really appreciate that.

So you had cake and family visit.  That sounds like a nice Birthday.

20 hours ago, Ryan_047 said:

I just did this exercise.The most common themes were about helping my family and my country,feeling sad or stressed,feeling motivated to live,wanting to practice my hobbies and my passions feeling pleasure from them.

 Wow!  I hear tons of positive things in this statement:

1. Helping family
2. Helping country
3. Feeling motivated to live (that's a huge one there)
4. Wanting to practice my hobbies/passions AND feel pleasure from them.

Those are some great goals. 

20 hours ago, Ryan_047 said:

My mom is alright now,that was just an episode.And my father is getting better.Things are moving in the right direction.For now,there shouldn't be a reason for me to feel stressed,not including the highschool.And I want to apologize too,due to my daily routine I wasn't able to read anymore,because I couldn't find any time for myself.

I am glad to hear that your folks are doing better.  I am sure that would help with some of the stress you were feeling.  I am glad you have a daily routine, so being true to you is a good thing!  I am really happy for you and proud of you for doing some very mature internal work on you.   

You take care of you and if we can be of help, well we will be here. 

[ULFBERHT]

@Ryan_047

You're probably depressed, friend. In fact, Anhedonia is a classic symptom of depression. They are virtually one and the same, which is why depression is so debilitating. You've gotta find a way to attack the issue from both the physiological and psychological sides, otherwise you're not going to get a strong grip on the issue.

[Kelley White]

14 hours ago, ULFBERHT said:

You're probably depressed, friend. In fact, Anhedonia is a classic symptom of depression. They are virtually one and the same, which is why depression is so debilitating. You've gotta find a way to attack the issue from both the physiological and psychological sides, otherwise you're not going to get a strong grip on the issue.

Hi @ULFBERHT, I would agree that @Ryan_047 would do well to see a Dr. if there is one available.  If not, then we have to work with what he does have available.   Its a process.

Thank you so much for your comment though, I do find both in tandem, when available,  can be helpful.  

 

 

[ULFBERHT]

@Kelley White Hey Kelley. Re-post this for our friend. Its all right here.

 

[Kelley White]

@ULFBERHT, sorry I missed this earlier.  I will check it out now.  Thank you for sharing it.  

[Ryan_047]

@Kelley White Hello:)

We haven't spoke in a while.I am doing a little bit better from the last time we talked.I've found some things I can do in order to eliminate anhedonia,like meditating,affirmations,writing,sport and also eating foods that help increase my dopamine level..I hope this 5 things will help me,if not..I don't know what else I can do.If these are not working there won't be a reason for me to continue living...

Anyways,I've got a request,if you don't mind.To be honest,I forget what things are enjoyable in day to day life.So,what I am asking you to do is to make list of what things cause you to have emotions.Like eating makes you feel blank,socializing makes you feel blank.I want to know how many emotions a normal person would feel during a day.Please include the nagative emotions as well.If you are willing to do this for me,please give me as many details as you can.