Suffering doesn't awaken. It can't.

[Endangered-EGO]

I have suffered a lot post nothingness and I suffer most of the time when I am not in nonduality.

 

 

My mother had a stroke, couldn't swallow any fluids and begged for water 24/7 in the hospital. She didn't get any enlightenment from it, and sais we're in hell here. She suffers, I suffer. I start to doubt that suffering leads anywhere. I'd rather have euthanasia than go through the same experience that she sent through.

 

I torture myself with sauna, cold water and strong determination sitting. Suffering still is suffering. Physical and Emotional pain still leads to suffering.

I'm not going to hurt myself anymore, I'm going to take hot showers and be really comfortable. I'm going to take sleeping pills instead of being tired.

 

I thought that suffering leads to awakening, but my biggest awakenings weren't triggered from suffering and suffering never led me anywhere. Asceticism is a fools errand.

 

I want liberation without suffering, and I don't know what path to chose now. I can't anticipate suffering and I can't find a solution to it.

I'm exhausted from fighting an uphill battle.

 

Is there a path of surrender that isn't islam?

Or something you can point me towards in my situation?

[Javfly33]

I'm sorry that you are going through this rough patch.

High level reply; 

Maybe it might help the fact that your mother suffering is in your own mind because you are imagining your mother, the hospital, and so on.

In fact you are imagining that there is this thing called "awakening" which you can arrive to, with suffering. 

Low level reply:

- Relax, relax , relax 

Sometimes we go too hard on ourselves and yeah, we really need like you say, to take a fucking warm shower, smoke a blunt, chill, etc.

What you have developed in this years with that discipline hasn't been in vain my main, trust me you will go to higher realms. 

I personally have had a couple of awakenings due to suffering and anxiety, but yeah it didn't changed much, I would say suffering has been the catalyzer. If in bliss 24/7, I wouldn't have pursued anything spiritual in the first place.

More than the causality, I think a minimum kind of suffering is just *fundamental for any kind of spiritual truth seeking 

[sara373]

@Endangered-EGO very sad to read about your mother. I hope she heals soon ? will just share my thoughts.

There are different kinds of sufferings. All under same name but still different intensity and cause.

Self-inflicted punishment as opposed to self-inflicted discipline for example, is a suffering that will not provide enlightenment unlesss you surrender to: forgiveness, love and self-respect. Because youre coming from a place of hurt is why you're perpetuating a suffeirng.

there are other paths of surrender besides islam, like the one i mention avove.

So, other sufferings can be poverty, illness, loss of worldly things.. maybe the diamond is in the rough,: enduring a hardship you can appreciate. If you change the word suffering to endurance, you will realize how much will to endure and persevere that you have.

Spiritual deprivation is one of the toughest sufferings of all I think. It cannot be self-imposed (unless bc of carnal reason). It just happens at a time in your life and is up to you how will you respond, by going within and seeking truths or what.

Anyway so tou get the idea. 

Life has its fair share of personal training. Now, you are exhausted. Be good to yourself and if you can learn anything is of it is love, patience and fortitude.

Edited July 16, 2021 by sara373

[Chris365]

Surrender fully, every moment, to what is...

Realizing there's no one that surrenders, there's just surrendering happening...

[Leo Gura]

@Endangered-EGO Only consciousness can awaken.

CONSCIOUS suffering is what awakens.

If suffering alone could awaken, everyone on the planet would be long awake.

This is why we invest years into spiritual work, so that when life turns sour, we are prepared. It is too late to hope for awakening once you find yourself in a shitty situation. This is like the squirrel who didn't prepare for winter. If you didn't prepare for winter, once winter is here, there will be no salvation.

You misunderstand asceticism. Asceticism is not about suffering, it's about intense consciousness. Any suffering along the way is just a side-effect.

[WelcometoReality]

3 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

I thought that suffering leads to awakening, but my biggest awakenings weren't triggered from suffering and suffering never led me anywhere. Asceticism is a fools errand.

Suffering can lead to awakening but nothing is certain. If the suffering becomes so immense that the suffering becomes unbearable there might be a letting go of the suffering. But why not start letting go of suffering before that point?

Yes, why ascetism? Why not enjoy life instead? Learn to use the mechanism of letting go of emotional pain and transcend it into unconditional love and beyond.

[VeganAwake]

Awakening occurs when it's clearly seen that the "ME" which thought suffering could lead to awakening isn't real.

Or

Awakening occurs when it's recognized the sufferer has never been.

❤

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

Awakening occurs when it's clearly seen that the "ME" which thought suffering could lead to awakening isn't real.

Or

Awakening occurs when it's recognized the sufferer has never been.

❤

The sufferer IS identification to thought and feeling. To say that it's never been would be to say that identification to thought and feeling has never been.

We can say that it's illusiory but to say it doesn't exist clearly isn't true.

Edited July 16, 2021 by WelcometoReality

[VeganAwake]

10 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

The sufferer IS identification to thought and feeling. To say that it's never been would be to say that identification to thought and feeling has never been.

We can say that it's illusiory but to say it doesn't exist clearly isn't true.

Yes, thoughts and feelings seem to arise. The illusory part is that they are arising for someone.

This isn't about denying thoughts and feelings, it's about recognizing there is no one actually having them...no owner.

❤

 

[sara373]

i dont get it. what is supposed to awaken? Am i to understand lifes sufferings cause awakening? Aren't we already conscious to this when undergoing the grueling of life itself. And so greater suffering= higher consciousness (being awake) ?

clarification pls..

[Nahm]

9 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

I have suffered a lot post nothingness and I suffer most of the time when I am not in nonduality

‘I have suffered a lot post myself’ has an odder, but more clarifying ring to it, no? (What is a self referential thought) I gotta imagine that’s helpful. ?? 

@sara373

No, greater suffering definitely does not make a you ‘higher’. Life isn’t grueling, life is undefinable. The suffering is in the knowing life is grueling, or in the inherent response to that thought / perspective. The ‘being the knower’ that ‘life is suffering’, the one separate from ‘life’ who knows this is ‘true’. Self Inquiry… exactly who or what is this one who knows suffering? 

[WelcometoReality]

3 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes, thoughts and feelings seem to arise. The illusory part is that they are arising for someone.

This isn't about denying thoughts and feelings, it's about recognizing there is no one actually having them...no owner.

❤

 

Yes and even that is saying too much.

"No one" and "no owner" doesn't exist. It's a thought and doesn't point to anything within reality. Non-existence doesn't exist.

Edited July 16, 2021 by WelcometoReality