Are Visions Just Egoic Projections?

[SQAAD]

I have been watching Martin Ball. Sometimes i get the sense that he is too dogmatic. It seems to me like he rejects all psychedelic visions as some sort of inferior egoic BS. 

What is your take on that? Do you agree with him?

 

[Nahm]

What he’s saying is perfectly clear. All is projection, indeed. He’s saying the same thing @James123 said, the same thing the Buddha said, and the same thing Jesus said, or were attributed as having said. The inferior egoic bs however, is the reframing of what he shared, as if said visions are ‘inferior egoic bs’.  

[Nos7algiK]

For this reason I've dropped my attachment to the mystical experiences I've perceived myself having in life. Those experiences have no more or less importance than me typing out this message currently. Remaining present in the "now" is the only thing I wish to be or should I say the only awareness I imagine I'm having. But, removing the " I " or any self reference would be more of an accurate way to say it.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[Thought Art]

Martin is an interesting guy. I have to observe him more closely. I can't tell where he is cold and where he is warm.

... Nor myself for that matter.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Thought Art

[Danioover9000]

   I would give some credibility to what he says, if he has tried hundreds of other psychedelics than 5-Meo-DMT, and that he could show us what vision is or is not an egoic projection. If he can't do one, or both, I'd not listen and I'll come back to improving my life, bit by bit.

[Anahata]

There are no 'visions that are being perceived by someone'. A vision is Consciousness taking a certain form to be able to interact with itself. If you become conscious of what's behind your 'human self' you know that your human self is Consciousness as well and there is no form. It's direct. Form is made of Consciousness. There is no other substance.

If you get a hat and wear it for a day can that hat be experienced as being separate from your direct/raw experience? What is a hat anyway? What if while being on DMT you feel like you have a hat over your head. Would you see 'the hat' as being separate from you? The whole experience of wearing a hat is not a hat. It's your direct experience. It's not,.. a body... a hat... a ceiling... a door.. a wall.. another wall... a table ... an eye.. another eye... a nose... lips... nails.. skin...

The mind is creating distinctions and divisions within the same 'tapestry'.

It's like listening to music. While you're having the experience of listening to your favorite tune, what does it feel like? 

'Part 1, one second, some piano sounds, oh drums, here you go, ooh oh ..um.. I'm listening to 3 seconds of his voice, oh another second of his singing wow, wow another kind of vocals, they are softer this time, woaah trumpets.'

Or

The whole thing that's happening but experienced as a whole in awareness.

The feelings that arise within you are not separate from the vocals that you're hearing, the shivers down your spine are not separate from the beat, the joy you're feeling is one with every other part of now, it's like a soup, it's oneness.

The dancer, dance & music are one.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Anahata

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, SQAAD said:

Sometimes i get the sense that he is too dogmatic.

Your intuition is correct. He's got a limited perspective of such things.

Quote

It seems to me like he rejects all psychedelic visions as some sort of inferior egoic BS.

That's overly reductionistic.

Visions can communicate Truth as much as anything else.

In fact, cultivating vision is a huge part of this work.

But of course, visions can also be self-deceptive. So you cannot blindly just trust your visions -- that would delusional.

- - - - - -

Nuance, nuance, nuance!

[Anahata]

It depends on how conscious you are. If you are very conscious/awake, you get high consciousness visions. 

These visions are like a mirror which reflects your level of consciousness. It's about what they mean to you, at the deepest level.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Anahata

[SQAAD]

@Leo Gura

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your intuition is correct. He's got a limited perspective of such things.

That's overly reductionistic.

Visions can communicate Truth as much as anything else.

In fact, cultivating vision is a huge part of this work.

But of course, visions can also be self-deceptive. So you cannot blindly just trust your visions -- that would delusional.

- - - - - -

Nuance, nuance, nuance!

I agree. Nicely said!

[SQAAD]

@Anahata

15 hours ago, Anahata said:

 

The mind is creating distinctions and divisions within the same 'tapestry'.

The feelings that arise within you are not separate from the vocals that you're hearing, the shivers down your spine are not separate from the beat, the joy you're feeling is one with every other part of now, it's like a soup, it's oneness.

The dancer, dance & music are one.

Good post! 

[Nahm]

@Nos7algiK

Also perfectly clear. Nice. ?? 

[Inliytened1]

On 7/15/2021 at 0:07 PM, SQAAD said:

It seems to me like he rejects all psychedelic visions as some sort of inferior egoic BS. 

What is your take on that? Do you agree with him?

The Absolute is the Absolute.  Whether the Absolute is revealed via meditation or psychedelics matters not, there will be no doubt.

If you have to ask whether it was the Absolute, it wasn't.

[Consilience]

They may be all egoic projections, but of course this misses the point that ALL egoic perceptions originate from Absolute Truth, God is exactly what is appearing in any and all moments  

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

If you have to ask whether it was the Absolute, it wasn't.

It was, it just wasn't recognized as such

[Runtz]

According to Leo, he is himself a hallucinatory vision.

[SQAAD]

@Runtz

4 hours ago, Runtz said:

According to Leo, he is himself a hallucinatory vision.

Ahahahaha 

[Thought Art]

Martin used to talk to his feather for advice! 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Martin used to talk to his feather for advice! 

No different than talking to a shrink.

The feather may be wiser

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No different than talking to a shrink.

The feather may be wiser

By the sounds of it 

[Preety_India]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Martin used to talk to his feather for advice! 

What do you mean by feather?

Do you mean an actual bird feather ?