Consciousness Work Taking Away Motivation To Succeed. Leo`s Input Would Be Appreciated

[Taavi]

Hey!

The more I do consciousness work the less I am motivated to struggle for "success" and self improvement. I have enough money right now to live until april when I will go to work again abroad so I do not need to get a job for money right now. I basically just read books from Leo`s list, go on a date or two a week and the rest of the time I spend contemplating or meditating. I have no motivation to strive for anything besides knowledge and better relationships. I am even quitting college because I think that I can learn better on my own. I am going to a business school and specializing in marketing so my reasoning is that I can learn the subjects much better from books/seminars and real life experience than from doing assignments for school. I also do not see marketing as a thing to concentrate on anymore so going to college to learn it seems pointless.  The only plan I really have for the future is to drive through Europe in my van and read books.

Basically my question is that should I try to reconcile the growing meaningless of things and the motivation needed for accomplishment? (I am not depressed or anything like that, I actually havent be so centered in all my life). If yes then how? It seems to me that letting go and trying to self actualize does not go together all that well. My plan right now is just to roll with it and learn as much as I can from the books and consciousness work and see what happens. I am 22 years old.

[Prabhaker]

26 minutes ago, Taavi said:

the less I am motivated to struggle for "success"

Success is a by-product; one need not think about it. And, if you think about it, you will not get it — that is a condition. Don’t think about success, because if you start thinking about success you become divided. Then, you are not totally in the work; your real mind is in the future: “How to succeed?” Your mind has started playing the game of greed, ambition, ego. 

If you work really sincerely upon yourself, success will follow you just as your shadow follows you. Success has not to be the goal.

And, remember, if you think too much of success you will constantly be thinking of failure too. They come together, they come in one package. Success and failure cannot be divided from each other. If you think of success, somewhere deep down there will be a fear also. Who knows whether you are going to make it or not? You may fail. Success takes you into the future, gives you a greed game, an ego projection, ambition, and the fear also gives you a shaking, a trembling – you may fail. The possibility of failure makes you waver. And, with this wavering, with this greed, with this ambition, your work will not be quiet. Your work will become a turmoil; you will be working here and looking there. You will be walking on this road and looking somewhere far away in the sky.

Don’t look ahead too much; otherwise, you will miss the immediate step. Success comes, of its own accord. Leave it to itself. This existence is a very rewarding existence, nothing goes unrewarded.

[Pramit]

why do you want to reconcile these things? Is it not possible for you to play the game without taking it seriously?

32 minutes ago, Taavi said:

It seems to me that letting go and trying to self actualize does not go together all that well

I think you are mistaken.

[David1]

34 minutes ago, Taavi said:

The more I do consciousness work the less I am motivated to struggle for "success" and self improvement.

Yes!! I agree with Prabhaker. Succes is not a struggle. It will come by itself. As within, so without, as above, so below. Change your inner game, and your external 'reality' will change accordingly. Or, as Leo's signature sais..."Let him that would move the world first move himself." -- Socrates. 

[Emerald]

9 minutes ago, Pramit said:

 "It seems to me that letting go and trying to self actualize does not go together all that well" - @Taavi

I think you are mistaken.

It might be an uncomfortable possibility to entertain given the degree of investment many people have in self-actualization, but I wouldn't dismiss this concern out of hand. The drive to self actualize is ego-driven, so you must be very careful and always vigilant. If you catch yourself trying to add value to your identity or to prop up a sense of self-worth through self-actualization, it's important to be aware of it. This is ego. Don't resist it, but be aware. However, there is nothing wrong with success as success is necessary for survival. Just don't make it about your identity or get attached to it. There's nothing wrong with improving at a skill, as long as it is for the joy of the process and the inspiration and desire to create or do something. But this too can be hi-jacked by ego and can be used as an adornment for the self image. 

[Anlib]

ANSWER THE QUESTION LEO, HAHA?

[Taavi]

@Pramit Taking on something that requires thousands of hours of work does need to be taken seriously by me because otherwise I will not put in the effort and it will not be completed. This is where the reconciliation comes in to play because the more I let go of my beliefs the less I am able to be serious about things. 

@Emerald Wilkins I think that everything is ego driven because otherwise there is no point to really do anything. You have to give meaning for something for it to have meaning. It`s not about feeling good and being right or wrong for me, I just want reach the truth and that means giving up my beliefs. 

[Taavi]

@Prabhaker My question is about the contradiction that I have between investing thousands of hours of time in to developing a skill in order to become succesful at something( e.g. life purpose ) and letting go of beliefs. It`s not like I can let go of my entire paradigm from which I experience the world and keep a belief that it is necessary to have a life purpose to keep me motivated to work towards it. But I think that having a life purpose is an experience I would like to have. From this comes the contradiction that also makes it hard for me to take the life purpose course seriously enough.

[Bob84]

@Taavi Letting go includes the contradictions.
You must have an intellectually idea on how your ego screws you over and over again. The "contradictions" is just a other one.
They generally get created by your mind in response to the "Consciousness Work/Enlightenment work". Its bullshit just like all the other things you already got rid off.

I need this and that to motivate myself, and if i do this and that i wont be able to motivate my self, is that making any sense?

[Pramit]

 

1 hour ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

The drive to self actualize is ego-driven

I see. My drive was just to understand myself and answer some simple questions. I felt happy when i embraced the fundamental contradiction, because my question was answered through my experience. Now everything i do is just a superficial add on, which makes it even more fun, and gives me more motivation to do things. I am already happy, so i am free to pursue anything now. But that might not be the case for everyone i suppose. 

[Taavi]

@Bob84 If there is no motivation to do something then I do not do it unless it is a physiological need. Without believing that something is worthwhile doing there is no motivation. Letting go of beliefs includes letting go of the frameworks in which one thing has enough meaning to spend 10 years concentrating on it.

It`s a contradiction concerning practicality not so much of an intellectual matter. For example if you were to aspire to become an electrical engineer and instead of concentrating on that you would spend 10 hours a day cooking. You may say that it is just an intellectual contradiction but in reality you are moving no closer to becoming an electrical engineer. It is not the best example but I hope you undestand my point, that motivation is required to actually do things and that motivation only arises when one believes that something is wothwhile doing. Letting go of beliefs diminishes motivation because nothing holds that much value over anything else. In that sense it is a practical not an intellectual matter.

[Bob84]

@Taavi I completely agree with you. But im still saying there is no contradiction. Sorry for being confusing.

Would you agree with a belief being a thought that you cherish and give more importance then other thoughts?
Would you agree with thoughts being thoughts and from the perspective of the "self" all being equal and the same?

When you for example think about a sexual fantasy, really visualize it in your mind, don't you get a boner? and don't you know at the same time that its not real?

[Leo Gura]

@Taavi Congrats, now you know how Hippies happen

Seriously though, the truth is most striving for success or self-improvement are phony and misguided. It's like going to McDonald's your whole life without realizing there are much better meal options available elsewhere in the city.

As you do more consciousness work, you will realize more and more how dysfunctional and shallow everything in mainstream society is. This can be difficult to reconcile at first, because your entire foundation for living is thrown into doubt.

If you continue the work, eventually you will come to peace with all this and you will find more healthy ways to relate to mainstream society. You'll find your niche at some point, but it might take a few years or a decade. You're still so young you don't really know yourself yet. You'll spend most of your 20's just getting to know who you are and what you want out of life. Rolling with it at your age is probably the best strategy.

[Dodo]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Taavi Congrats, now you know how Hippies happen

Seriously though, the truth is most striving for success or self-improvement are phony and misguided. It's like going to McDonald's your whole life without realizing there are much better meal options available elsewhere in the city.

As you do more consciousness work, you will realize more and more how dysfunctional and shallow everything in mainstream society is. This can be difficult to reconcile at first, because your entire foundation for living is thrown into doubt.

If you continue the work, eventually you will come to peace with all this and you will find more healthy ways to relate to mainstream society. You'll find your niche at some point, but it might take a few years or a decade. You're still so young you don't really know yourself yet. You'll spend most of your 20's just getting to know who you are and what you want out of life. Rolling with it at your age is probably the best strategy.

Excuse me but McDonald's got some really nice veggie options and its cheaper than the other places around me I gotta!

[Taavi]

@Leo Gura

Thank you for the input. It is quite challenging for me to relate to mainstream society right now considering the difference of interests. Rolling with it, learning as much as I can while keeping my eyes open for opportunities seems to be the best strategy for now.

[Taavi]

@Bob84

39 minutes ago, Bob84 said:

@Taavi I completely agree with you. But im still saying there is no contradiction. Sorry for being confusing.

Would you agree with a belief being a thought that you cherish and give more importance then other thoughts?
Would you agree with thoughts being thoughts and from the perspective of the "self" all being equal and the same?

When you for example think about a sexual fantasy, really visualize it in your mind, don't you get a boner? and don't you know at the same time that its not real?

I get the feeling that we are not really on the same page. I am talking about the mechanics of how I get motivated. Fantasising about sex would get me motivated to seek out sex and the fantasy would occur because of a physiological and emotional need. The end result would be that I will have sex at some point. If we draw a comparison to let`s say life purpose then I would not have a fantasy about it spontaneously and if i did it would not be strong enough to keep me motivated without me consciously working on it. 

The contradiction is that letting go of beliefs also includes letting go of the beliefs that support the notion, that I should consciously work towards a life purpose. It is about how motivation works not over right or wrong.

[Leo Gura]

@Taavi It's a long, drawn out process. You have much more toxic beliefs to question right now than life purpose.

Yes, life purpose requires some belief building, but that's just a practical facet of life.

The trap here would be to think, "I gotta dissolve all beliefs. So let me start by doubting my beliefs in life purpose, self-actualization, enlightenment, love, compassion, etc."

No! Those beliefs are practical and useful. Keep them if they are serving your growth. What you should be more concerned about dropping are all your other limiting beliefs.

What you're doing right now is sorta like saying, "Oh, my left leg has a paper cut in it, let's amputate it." While your right leg is infested with cancer and gangrene. The paper cut on the left leg is NOT the problem. Start by amputating the stuff that's really toxic.

There's nothing contradictory about -- say -- pursing enlightenment and developing a career in music. You can do both. Likewise for whatever other career you might be passionate about.

[Taavi]

@Leo Gura

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The trap here would be to think, "I gotta dissolve all beliefs. So let me start by doubting my beliefs in life purpose, self-actualization, enlightenment, love, compassion, etc."

I am not specifically trying to doubt life purpose or other positive values, it kinda comes with doubting everything else. When there is doubt it is not like I can or want to ignore it and say that "I will put it on hold while I doubt other more toxic things". Whatever comes under question I question it. Same goes to anything else, including much more toxic thought patterns, negative emotions and so on. I just try to not make a story out of it for myself, what is right to question and what is not. 

While so many teachings point to letting go of everything and accept what is to arrive at the truth it does seem contradictory to focus on getting more and immerse yourself in something that requires a lot of focus and character building. It seems to be like trying to demolish a house by understanding it completely but while doing so you deliberately build new parts on top of it to be practical and get a better house. 

Demolishing a house and building a better one at the same time seems to be contradictory if your goal is to arrive at a place where there is no house.

[WelcometoReality]

29 minutes ago, Taavi said:

@Leo Gura

I am not specifically trying to doubt life purpose or other positive values, it kinda comes with doubting everything else. When there is doubt it is not like I can or want to ignore it and say that "I will put it on hold while I doubt other more toxic things". Whatever comes under question I question it. Same goes to anything else, including much more toxic thought patterns, negative emotions and so on. I just try to not make a story out of it for myself, what is right to question and what is not. 

While so many teachings point to letting go of everything and accept what is to arrive at the truth it does seem contradictory to focus on getting more and immerse yourself in something that requires a lot of focus and character building. It seems to be like trying to demolish a house by understanding it completely but while doing so you deliberately build new parts on top of it to be practical and get a better house. 

Demolishing a house and building a better one at the same time seems to be contradictory if your goal is to arrive at a place where there is no house.

If you feel like you need to force yourself to do things they are probably not true for you right now. Truth is effortless, do that which is just that. Someday it may change. You then may want to build a new house, who knows? You ask what to do. I say trust yourself, you know what to do.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Taavi said:

It seems to be like trying to demolish a house by understanding it completely but while doing so you deliberately build new parts on top of it to be practical and get a better house. 

That's right!

This work is paradoxical.

Believe it or not, it is possible in this case to demolish your house while building it too. And that's EXACTLY what you should be doing in this work.

Remember that enlightenment really changes nothing. If your life is crappy before enlightenment, it will still be crappy afterwards.