If other human beings are an illusion, why does it feel good to help others?

[OneHandClap]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's exactly right.  God can not have a sense of self in its most purest form which is formlessness.  If it had a sense of self it would limit it to one particular form.  Yet that being said, even God in a limited form is still God.  But the essence of God is not the form it takes but the substance of that form. ( Or lack there of)

Yes, you are spot on! I like how you frame it. I just happened to note the idea of existing as a human body-mind because on the relative level, that is all we have. Solipsism strips the beauty out of being in this current form, IMO. Being a human is an interesting experience... having this body is immaculate... it's always important to walk the balancing act of remembering your true nature as this infinite, knowing stillness while enjoying the ride of being whatever you are. Love to you, my friend. 

[Javfly33]

4 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Don't worry if you slip into this view or that one. As you said yourself, you are immortal—but not as Javfly, which is the form you currently inhabit. And part of being this consciousness means excelling and cherishing every single form. Thus, take care of yourself, take care of others, take care of this beautiful Earth that allowed this current body to manifest in this current time. One day, yes, you will return to the infinite. You will collapse duality. But right now, we live in relative duality. Remember to take this human experience seriously! It's a hell of a ride. 

You sure there is an earth?

I think my hands are the hands of God, that it's the current form God is taking.

This thinking could be deluded , but I'm just trying to discover Truth. 

It really is challenging to think there is out there other humans and an earth existing outside of my direct Consciousness...

[OneHandClap]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

You sure there is an earth?

I think my hands are the hands of God, that it's the current form God is taking.

This thinking could be deluded , but I'm just trying to discover Truth. 

It really is challenging to think there is out there other humans and an earth existing outside of my direct Consciousness...

Think of it this way - this mind that you're thinking with, posting with, asking questions with... is not "you."

You are the stillness that's beneath all of the thinking, the perceiving, etc. What you were before this universe is what you still are. But "you" as this mind, as Javfly, did not make the Earth, the universe, other people. Try to step back from taking credit for the work of Infinite Being/God/Consciousness. You are those things, yes, but not in this current form. Right now you are a human being existing with trillions of other individual objects. Again, when you exist purely AS that stillness, you will have no questions about self/other. The truth will make itself known directly without conceptualizing.

All of these words are just pointing to what's really there. The Earth is real from this current, limited POV. The idea that your limited mind produced the universe is not true... otherwise, why wouldn't you be able to predict everything I am writing? Why wouldn't you be able to control reality at the snap of your fingers? There are two truths - the relative and the absolute. Don't muddy them too much. Have a good meal, watch a TV show. Be a human with other humans. They are just as much God as you are

[Javfly33]

@OneHandClap oh no, I'm not saying Javfly33 created the floor I'm sitting in or the TV I'm watching. That would be insane.

 

I'm saying me as God/Nothing/Infinity is creating Javfly33 body, Javfly33 thoughts, the floor, and the TV.

And additionally, is producing the sensation of thinking that there is such a thing as a forum on an internet server , and such a thing as earth, and a person with username OneHandClap.

This is being imagined so I have a sense of reality, and get to lose myself in a dream.

I can't predict anything you say because you don't exist. I'm just seeing some letters and assuming there is a person writing that at the other part of the world.

But yeah, let's put the thing aside ?. Imaginary or not, I'm going to chill and watch some TV and turn off the phone. It was a good talk with you, imaginary or real person ?

 

[OneHandClap]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

@OneHandClap oh no, I'm not saying Javfly33 created the floor I'm sitting in or the TV I'm watching. That would be insane.

 

I'm saying me as God/Nothing/Infinity is creating Javfly33 body, Javfly33 thoughts, the floor, and the TV.

And additionally, is producing the sensation of thinking that there is such a thing as a forum on an internet server , and such a thing as earth, and a person with username OneHandClap.

This is being imagined so I have a sense of reality, and get to lose myself in a dream.

I can't predict anything you say because you don't exist. I'm just seeing some letters and assuming there is a person writing that at the other part of the world.

But yeah, let's put the thing aside ?. Imaginary or not, I'm going to chill and watch some TV and turn off the phone. It was a good talk with you, imaginary or real person ?

 

Be well, my friend! If you get a chance, try to do a few short meditations where you watch the thoughts "This is imaginary," "I made this," etc arise and disappear. Notice where the thoughts vanish back into. This should provide your answer and help get out of the hole  

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Leo Gura Then why I can't have sex with my coffee table or have a deep conversation about politics with the lamp of my bedroom... See I don't have a problem accepting that I might be creating a coffee table with my Consciousness, but...people??

The whole thing about sex that makes it exciting is that 

A) I'm connecting with somebody and feeling loved (emotional/ego fueled motivation)

B) I'm passing my genes (survival fueled motivation)

Both motivations would be ridiculous if verified than the girl I'm having sex with is as imaginary as a coffee table!

Can't you see I wouldn't be able to fuck her the same if I become conscious I am creating her with my Consciousness ?

If you stop being selfish for just one minute you will realize that the Truth does not care about your ability to fuck.

The only one you will ever fuck in your life is yourself.

You can't have sex with a coffee table simply because you are a selfish bastard who is too biased to think straight.

"But Leo, if you take away all my illusions how will I survive?"

You won't. You'll die.

Welcome to Truth.

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you stop being selfish for just one minute you will realize that the Truth does not care about your ability to fuck.

How can you stop being selfish if you aren't transcending survival even for a minute ?

First you you you you you..

You can't be selfless if you are stuck with survival ya know

[Javfly33]

8 hours ago, Preety_India said:

How can you stop being selfish if you aren't transcending survival even for a minute ?

First you you you you you..

You can't be selfless if you are stuck with survival ya know

Survival is itself the game ??‍♂️ 

Don't act you all so pure like you guys are some ascetic monks ?

[Preety_India]

8 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Survival is itself the game ??‍♂️ 

Don't act you all so pure like you guys are some ascetic monks ?

I have never said I'm pure.  But I'm asking Leo how can he talk about not being selfish without transcending survival first.

 

[OneHandClap]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I have never said I'm pure.  But I'm asking Leo how can he talk about not being selfish without transcending survival first.

 

Why do you assume we have to transcend survival? Survival is the only thing that has allowed anything to exist to this point. Without survival, there would be no language, no culture, no education, no nothing. Survival is individual forms remaining in time-space and resisting dissolution. 

Transcending survival is a non-starter of an idea, because it implies there is something which can exist without survival sustaining it. 

[gettoefl]

i found nisargadatta's talk #55 quite pertinent to this discussion:

https://www.nonduality.com/hl7055.htm

does this clarify or confuse

 

 

[gettoefl]

you are

 

absolute all-one awareness

not concept creating consciousness

 

here now reality

not space time relativity

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by gettoefl

[StarStruck]

On 15-7-2021 at 3:10 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Vision Reality and illusion are identical.

You are dreaming. Enjoy the dream. Dream whatever dream you want. There is nothing outside the dream so don't wait for anything better or realer. This is it.

Is it not more complex than that? I remember you saying that reality is real, not real and both.

[TheLoneSage]

On 7/15/2021 at 7:24 AM, Nahm said:

 

[StarStruck]

How can people say they transcended survival and still live in a house and such? If the illusionary self is eliminated why not take some homeless people in your house? Distribute all your money to poor people?

Connor Murphy actually did this but people see him as a crazy person right now, and he got kind of disowned for his crazy behavior. I also don't think the world would be a better place if everybody was like that.

[TheLoneSage]

@Nahmwhen I hopped on a call with you for the first time. ????

[Nahm]

@TheLoneSage ?

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

How can people say they transcended survival and still live in a house and such? If the illusionary self is eliminated why not take some homeless people in your house? Distribute all your money to poor people?

Connor Murphy actually did this but people see him as a crazy person right now, and he got kind of disowned for his crazy behavior. I also don't think the world would be a better place if everybody was like that.

Nobody here transcends survival, at most we take a look at what there is if you stop survival mode for a while, but for this you have to have guaranteed survival, if not, it will be difficult not to focus exclusively on it. And the connor thing ... well, using homeless people to get views on YouTube to earn money doesn't seem like an example of altruistic holiness to me

[mandyjw]

On 7/15/2021 at 0:32 PM, Javfly33 said:

@Leo Gura Then why I can't have sex with my coffee table or have a deep conversation about politics with the lamp of my bedroom... See I don't have a problem accepting that I might be creating a coffee table with my Consciousness, but...people??

The whole thing about sex that makes it exciting is that 

A) I'm connecting with somebody and feeling loved (emotional/ego fueled motivation)

B) I'm passing my genes (survival fueled motivation)

Both motivations would be ridiculous if verified than the girl I'm having sex with is as imaginary as a coffee table!

Can't you see I wouldn't be able to fuck her the same if I become conscious I am creating her with my Consciousness ? 

It seems that the only solution would be to forgetting the Truth and believing that there is some speck of hope that the dual paradigm could be true.

But...I'll give it time, maybe I can find the joy in having sex with myself one day ? 

Put your hand on the coffee table. Without thinking "my hand" and "coffee table" but feeling, is the hand/coffee table one sensation or two? 

[gettoefl]

transcending survival to me means you go to bed happy not to wake up

you have done all you can you strained every sinew and savored every step of god's plan you are one happy man

though if you do then you are ecstatic since you are gifted another day of grace, abundance and entertainment

in addition i do not open my home to folks since i know lovers will love but a murderer will murder and so i should not tempt god to end my day before bedtime

Edited July 17, 2021 by gettoefl