If other human beings are an illusion, why does it feel good to help others?

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Vision said:

@Inliytened1 If the Absolute and Love is our nature, Is selflessness also our nature? 

Yes.  Selfishness is delusion.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Vision said:

@Leo Gura In actuality, all we have is our present direct experience. The future and past literally do not exist if we don't think about them. 

How do we plan for the future knowing that we don't actually know if there is a future to be experienced? 

The same way you always have.

You could die at any second. Yet you still made plans in your life.

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When we are strategizing about the future - or sacrificing enjoying the present moment by doing anything out of extrinsic motivation in hopes of "getting something" in the future - aren't we just putting all our faith in a concept (the future)? 

Yes

Survival demands it.

Quote

Almost everything that is conducive to our survival is based on belief. 

It is a belief that - if I were to jump off a bridge, I would die. 

It is also a belief that my parents had sex to create me. 

It is also a belief that if I were to murder 50 people, I would go to prison for life. 

All these beliefs are necessary for our survival. But they are just beliefs.

Would you call these things "useful beliefs"? 

Can a belief be useful? 

Of course belief is useful. Belief is commonly used because that's what is required for survival.

Survival requires some bullshittery to get things rolling smoothly.

Welcome to life, where bullshit is the fuel.

Don't try to be so pure and holy that you refuse to wrestle in the mud. Survival is wrestling with pigs in the mud. If you don't like that, you're always free to stop surviving.

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are conflating absolute and relative notions.

I would not like to get kicked in the nuts, but that does not change the fact that a kick in the nuts is imaginary.

If it is a guy, then obviously the notion of it being a girl has not been dispelled.

@Leo Gura I mean if i discover it's a guy, I would lose the erection.

If I discover people I talk to are unreal, by the same logic I should lose the interest and joy in interacting with them.

The only way that makes sense to me about all of this is:

Since One is the absolute, One can always doubt about his awakening (because nobody can verify your awakening for you) and that way One can always have the doubt of "maybe it's not a dream and it's real" and therefore excitement can still be there. 

 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Leo Gura

If I discover people I talk to are unreal, by the same logic I should lose the interest and joy in interacting with them.

They are as real as anything else you know.

Just because something is imaginary does not mean you should lose interest or joy in interacting with it. This is a silly assumption.

You read a novel and enjoy it knowing it's fiction.

Life becomes MORE enjoyable when you realize it's all imaginary. This is what you guys are not getting. The desire for life to be "real" is just stupid. It's a game, and that is best.

[mandyjw]

When you love it feels amazing. Is it because you're giving your love away? If you were giving your love away, that wouldn't feel good. No, giving love IS the very receiving of love! There is no giver or receiver in love, no other. 

[Javfly33]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

They are as real as anything else you know.

Just because something is imaginary does not mean you should lose interest or joy in interacting with it. This is a silly assumption.

You read a novel and joy it knowing it's fiction.

@Leo Gura Then why I can't have sex with my coffee table or have a deep conversation about politics with the lamp of my bedroom... See I don't have a problem accepting that I might be creating a coffee table with my Consciousness, but...people??

The whole thing about sex that makes it exciting is that 

A) I'm connecting with somebody and feeling loved (emotional/ego fueled motivation)

B) I'm passing my genes (survival fueled motivation)

Both motivations would be ridiculous if verified than the girl I'm having sex with is as imaginary as a coffee table!

Can't you see I wouldn't be able to fuck her the same if I become conscious I am creating her with my Consciousness ? 

It seems that the only solution would be to forgetting the Truth and believing that there is some speck of hope that the dual paradigm could be true.

But...I'll give it time, maybe I can find the joy in having sex with myself one day ? 

[OneHandClap]

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

my Consciousness ? 

You have more work to do. There is nobody to claim consciousness. Consciousness is sovereign, and you are speaking as a human being. "You" as javfly did not make a single thing. If you think your mind is real and everyone else is a figment of your mind, you're delusional, not awakened. Consciousness is impersonal—it created you as well as everything else. One wave does not make the entire ocean around it. 

[Javfly33]

7 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

You have more work to do. There is nobody to claim consciousness. Consciousness is sovereign, and you are speaking as a human being. "You" as javfly did not make a single thing. If you think your mind is real and everyone else is a figment of your mind, you're delusional, not awakened. Consciousness is impersonal—it created you as well as everything else. One wave does not make the entire ocean around it. 

I Dont buy It.

Solipsism seems the truth by now...maybe its time to accept It.

[OneHandClap]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I Dont buy It.

Solipsism seems the truth by now...maybe its time to accept It.

How do you know it's true? You can only "verify" solipsism through a thought pattern. AKA "I am real, you are not." "This person is imaginary." 

What happens if you stop thinking? Where do the concepts about self, other, real, and unreal go? They dissolve. But don't take my word for it. Step away from the mental masturbation and just BE for a few minutes. You will see that solipsism just a word, one possible viewpoint out of literally infinite viewpoints. Even oneness is a word. Get to the reality that those words are describing.

The map is not the territory.

[Javfly33]

@OneHandClap fair enough, ill contemplate seriously What you said.

Its true that maybe Im relying too much on thought and intelectual understanding

[Nahm]

@Javfly33

This could be very timely & helpful. 

[OneHandClap]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@OneHandClap fair enough, ill contemplate seriously What you said.

Its true that maybe Im relying too much on thought and intelectual understanding

You may be! Trust me, dear friend, I have been down that rabbit hole. Many practitioners have. 

I know right now you may think I am just a figment of your mind speaking, but remember—only at the level of pure consciousness (God, whatever you want to call it) is there ONE perspective. Reality is composed of infinite individual perspectives all overlapping, held within the one field of perception. But as you exist right now, you are a human with your POV, and I am a human with my own. You cannot verify this, but it's the logical occam's razor outcome. 

Remember that oneness holds manyness within it. If/when you reach "true God consciousness," you will feel this on an intuitive level. There is no me, or javfly, or churchill, or anybody else at that level of existence. But as you are in this moment, as a thinking human mind, you exist in the same field as all other minds

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

You may be! Trust me, dear friend, I have been down that rabbit hole. Many practitioners have. 

I know right now you may think I am just a figment of your mind speaking, but remember—only at the level of pure consciousness (God, whatever you want to call it) is there ONE perspective. Reality is composed of infinite individual perspectives all overlapping, held within the one field of perception. But as you exist right now, you are a human with your POV, and I am a human with my own. You cannot verify this, but it's the logical occam's razor outcome. 

Remember that oneness holds manyness within it. If/when you reach "true God consciousness," you will feel this on an intuitive level. There is no me, or javfly, or churchill, or anybody else at that level of existence. But as you are in this moment, as a thinking human mind, you exist in the same field as all other minds

Right.  It's not a figment of @Javfly33s imagination..both the idea of @Javfly33 and others are held within the imagination or Mind of God. And God is You.  In Truth There is only what's actual. If you take out your hand and acknowledge its existence.  That is actual. Remove who and  what it is.    That's all there is.  The present moment.  Now.  Everything else is you as God creating stories to separate itself from itself.

[Javfly33]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Right.  It's not a figment of @Javfly33s imagination..both the idea of @Javfly33 and others are held within the Mind of God.  In Truth There is only what's actual. If you take out your hand and acknowledge its existence.  That is actual. Remove Remand what it is.    That's all there is.  The present moment.  Now.  Everything else is you as God creating stories to separate itself from itself.

Well now I don't know what to believe ?

Honestly from my last retreat it seems there is an apparent @Javfly33 writing stuff talking to people but sometimes I get a kind of "lights out" or 'zoom out' like Nahm says, and it seems I have no idea what is going on... like There is no self. Yet the body moves and there are thoughts and so on

As I said, there's no problem if I am God and you are all imaginary and I'm talking to myself. I just want to try to live as accordingly as I can to truth ?

[OneHandClap]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Right.  It's not a figment of @Javfly33s imagination..both the idea of @Javfly33 and others are held within the imagination or Mind of God. And God is You.  In Truth There is only what's actual. If you take out your hand and acknowledge its existence.  That is actual. Remove who and  what it is.    That's all there is.  The present moment.  Now.  Everything else is you as God creating stories to separate itself from itself.

Yes, correct. The main problem I see is people who have not yet reached an intuitive understanding of God-consciousness trying to internalize the idea of the Absolute as their human mind/self. This is what we call solipsism. Solipsism, as a word, carries baggage that The Truth does not. Within Truth, obviously, you, me, Javfly, and everybody else are negated and yet included as part of the greater whole. To some materialists, I use the example of the Big Bang. Prior to the Big Bang, as we know it, there was stillness. All was unified without time or space. After the Big Bang... separation. But the underlying stillness that existed prior to "matter" is still here, and it exists within everything. It loves to explore itself and have fun. Conscious beings just happen to be able to realize that fact directly. What solipsists often fear, of course, is that the whole show is just them as a human mind generating that field of experience. 

[OneHandClap]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Well now I don't know what to believe ?

Honestly from my last retreat it seems there is an apparent @Javfly33 writing stuff talking to people but sometimes I get a kind of "lights out" or 'zoom out' like Nahm says, and it seems I have no idea what is going on... like There is no self. Yet the body moves and there are thoughts and so on

As I said, there's no problem if I am God and you are all imaginary and I'm talking to myself. I just want to try to live as accordingly as I can to truth ?

Consider, for a moment, that what you experienced on a retreat (that of infinite consciousness) was a perspective that you are currently not integrating or existing in as an actual reality. At the level of actual God-consciousness, there are no questions. The reality (and wonder) of the whole thing is understood without needing to verify with thought. In that mode, as you may recall, there is no sense of being a you, Javfly, who is connecting with anybody who is not you. But nothing/everything are two sides of a coin. If you are currently thinking "You are all imaginary, but I am real," you are in duality again.

[Javfly33]

@OneHandClap In the retreat I become conscious I was awake in my own dream. I just snapped my fingers and saw my body and realized I was fucking dream material with the objects that were in the room.

That was it.

Game over.

Now I can doubt it. Sure.

That's the way I m going to be able to "play this". By doubting it.

Definetely it was one of the most intense euphoric moments of "my life".

It was extremely Solipsistic but also incredibly euphoric. I was fucking inmortal.

There is no way to integrate that shit. I have to fall back to duality to forget that you are imaginary and this forum is actually right now in my mind.

[Javfly33]

11 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

 "You are all imaginary, but I am real," you are in duality again.

@OneHandClap Right...and I'm doing it again haha.

Ok...maybe there is some room there for exploration...will try to give less importance to intellectual conclusions and try to silence my mind more

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Yes, correct. The main problem I see is people who have not yet reached an intuitive understanding of God-consciousness trying to internalize the idea of the Absolute as their human mind/self. This is what we call solipsism. 

That's exactly right.  God can not have a sense of self in its most purest form which is formlessness.  If it had a sense of self it would limit it to one particular form.  Yet that being said, even God in a limited form is still God.  But the essence of God is not the form it takes but the substance of that form. ( Or lack there of)

[OneHandClap]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@OneHandClap In the retreat I become conscious I was awake in my own dream. I just snapped my fingers and saw my body and realized I was fucking dream material with the objects that were in the room.

That was it.

Game over.

Now I can doubt it. Sure.

That's the way I m going to be able to "play this". By doubting it.

Definetely it was one of the most intense euphoric moments of "my life".

It was extremely Solipsistic but also incredibly euphoric. I was fucking inmortal.

There is no way to integrate that shit. I have to fall back to duality to forget that you are imaginary and this forum is actually right now in my mind.

Don't worry if you slip into this view or that one. As you said yourself, you are immortal—but not as Javfly, which is the form you currently inhabit. And part of being this consciousness means excelling and cherishing every single form. Thus, take care of yourself, take care of others, take care of this beautiful Earth that allowed this current body to manifest in this current time. One day, yes, you will return to the infinite. You will collapse duality. But right now, we live in relative duality. Remember to take this human experience seriously! It's a hell of a ride.