If other human beings are an illusion, why does it feel good to help others?

[Vision]

If we were to become conscious of the duality between self and other being an illusion, how does our Life Purpose still make us feel satisfied and fulfilled? 

Why does it still feel good to have an impact on "others" through our Life Purpose when there is no such thing?

Is it because "others" are you? So we naturally want to improve every manifestation of reality as if it were our own creation?

[Adamq8]

Cause there is only the Absolute and all is that

[Nahm]

4 minutes ago, Vision said:

If other human beings are an illusion, why does it feel good to help others?

Cause you’re dispelling your own illusions.  self inquiry. 

4 minutes ago, Vision said:

If we were to become conscious of the duality between self and other being an illusion, how does our Life Purpose still make us feel satisfied and fulfilled? 

You’re moving the nonsense needle a bit there. If we become conscious of the duality between self and other? 

Imagine just one household with parents that are innocently caught up in their own shenanigans. Not much mindfulness of their kids spiritual well being, creativity, or direction in life. Little to no awareness they are creating their reality. Imagine the things the kids might go to as attempts to ‘fill that hole’. Then google “Leo Gura’s Life Purpose Course”, and imagine those kids experiencing the arising of their own creative visions for themselves and their lives. Literally feel the connectivity & inspiration on their behalf as you imagine this. Imagine them as they discover a real sense of worth, and create a life worthwhile to them. They fit in. They have a place here. Their talents & passions are valued, and the culmination of it is needed here. They feel connection, they contribute to betterment, they are part of the bigger whole, they feel the truth in reciprocity, they are conscious creators. This easily leads to a better, happier life. That leads to a better, happier world, and that is on the cusp of the realization happiness is reality.  

Why does it still feel good to have an impact on "others" through our Life Purpose when there is no such thing?

Is it because "others" are you? So we naturally want to improve every manifestation of reality as if it were our own creation?

This is your creation already. 

[Leo Gura]

For the same reason that lunch makes you feel satisfied and fulfilled.

Don't overlook the point that there's nothing but illusions. When illusions are all you have, the fact that it's an illusion makes little difference to your mind.

An imaginary blowjob is just as good as a real one when real ones don't exist 

[Javfly33]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For the same reason that lunch makes you feel satisfied and fulfilled.

Don't overlook the point that there's nothing but illusions. When illusions are all you have, the fact that it's an illusion makes little difference to your mind.

An imaginary blowjob is just as good as a real one when real ones don't exist 

Really Leo?

If you get a blowjob and then it turns out it was a guy, would you agree to him giving you another once you have dispelled the illusion that it was a girl? 

Would you enjoy it the same ? I don't think so.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Really Leo?

If you get a blowjob and then it turns out it was a guy, would you agree to him giving you another once you have dispelled the illusion that it was a girl? 

Would you enjoy it the same ? I don't think so.

You are conflating absolute and relative notions.

I would not like to get kicked in the nuts, but that does not change the fact that a kick in the nuts is imaginary.

If it is a guy, then obviously the notion of it being a girl has not been dispelled.

[Vision]

29 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Cause you’re dispelling your own illusions.  self inquiry. 

 

Quote

"but once awareness of the ‘I’-feeling has been firmly established, further effort is counter-productive. From then on it is more a process of being than doing, of effortless being rather than an effort to be."

@Nahm  When do you know that the "I-feeling" has been firmly established? What do you mean by "process of being than doing, of effortless being rather than effort to be." Is it like the concept of Wu Wei? Flowing through life?

34 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Imagine just one household with parents that are innocently caught up in their own shenanigans. Not much mindfulness of their kids spiritual well being, creativity, or direction in life. Little to no awareness they are creating their reality. Imagine the things the kids might go to as attempts to ‘fill that hole’. Then google “Leo Gura’s Life Purpose Course”, and imagine those kids experiencing the arising of their own creative visions for themselves and their lives. Literally feel the connectivity & inspiration on their behalf as you imagine this. Imagine them as they discover a real sense of worth, and create a life worthwhile to them. They fit in. They have a place here. Their talents & passions are valued, and the culmination of it is needed here. They feel connection, they contribute to betterment, they are part of the bigger whole, they feel the truth in reciprocity, they are conscious creators. This easily leads to a better, happier life. That leads to a better, happier world, and that is on the cusp of the realization happiness is reality.  

I don't quite understand this analogy. Who are the parents and who are the kids? My mind and my spirit/muse respectively?

36 minutes ago, Nahm said:

This is your creation already. 

So I enjoy it because it is my own manifestation?

 

1 hour ago, Adamq8 said:

Cause there is only the Absolute and all is that

@Adamq8 Can you elaborate?

[Vision]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For the same reason that lunch makes you feel satisfied and fulfilled.

Don't overlook the point that there's nothing but illusions. When illusions are all you have, the fact that it's an illusion makes little difference to your mind.

An imaginary blowjob is just as good as a real one when real ones don't exist 

@Leo Gura

Is life like a video game? We know that video games are an illusion, yet we still enjoy them?

We could say that humans have a need for growth and having a purpose in life because of our evolution. But that's just an idea/theory in our heads. Not actuality. 

[Leo Gura]

@Vision Reality and illusion are identical.

You are dreaming. Enjoy the dream. Dream whatever dream you want. There is nothing outside the dream so don't wait for anything better or realer. This is it.

[Vision]

@Leo Gura In actuality, all we have is our present direct experience. The future and past literally do not exist if we don't think about them. 

How do we plan for the future knowing that we don't actually know if there is a future to be experienced? 

The future is a belief. When we are strategizing about the future - or sacrificing enjoying the present moment by doing anything out of extrinsic motivation in hopes of "getting something" in the future - aren't we just putting all our faith in a concept (the future)? 

Almost everything that is conducive to our survival is based on belief. 

It is a belief that - if I were to jump off a bridge, I would die. 

It is also a belief that my parents had sex to create me. 

It is also a belief that if I were to murder 50 people, I would go to prison for life. 

All these beliefs are necessary for our survival. But they are just beliefs.

Would you call these things "useful beliefs"? 

Can a belief be useful? 

[Nahm]

22 minutes ago, Vision said:

When do you know that the "I-feeling" has been firmly established?

Quote

What do you mean by "process of being than doing, of effortless being rather than effort to be." Is it like the concept of Wu Wei? Flowing through life?

Non-conceptual. Literally Ineffable. Unthinkable. Unbelievable. 

22 minutes ago, Vision said:

I don't quite understand this analogy. Who are the parents and who are the kids? My mind and my spirit/muse respectively?

It’s a ‘look what’s goin on’, not an analogy. 

22 minutes ago, Vision said:

So I enjoy it because it is my own manifestation?

There’s not I and an it. You’re being. Thoughts about yourself are not about yourself, but seem to be about yourself. Yourself is the awareness of the thoughts. 

 

[gettoefl]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Vision Reality and illusion are identical.

You are dreaming. Enjoy the dream. Dream whatever dream you want. There is nothing outside the dream so don't wait for anything better or realer. This is it.

fair to say that illusion = temporary reality?

if so replace the word illusion with temporary and you will see this dream is really good

i am not an illusion, i am the real deal here for a short period of time

Edited July 15, 2021 by gettoefl

[Vision]

@Nahm Thanks for using images  

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

Ineffable

Isn't everything?

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

It’s a ‘look what’s goin on’, not an analogy.

I don't really see what's going on. I don't understand the parent's role in relation to the kids. 

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

There’s not I and an it. You’re being. Thoughts about yourself are not about yourself, but seem to be about yourself. Yourself is the awareness of the thoughts. 

And what is the "self" that my thoughts are thinking about? It doesn't exist? 

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, Vision said:

@Leo Gura In actuality, all we have is our present direct experience. The future and past literally do not exist if we don't think about them. 

How do we plan for the future knowing that we don't actually know if there is a future to be experienced? 

The future is a belief. When we are strategizing about the future - or sacrificing enjoying the present moment by doing anything out of extrinsic motivation in hopes of "getting something" in the future - aren't we just putting all our faith in a concept (the future)? 

Almost everything that is conducive to our survival is based on belief. 

It is a belief that - if I were to jump off a bridge, I would die. 

It is also a belief that my parents had sex to create me. 

It is also a belief that if I were to murder 50 people, I would go to prison for life. 

All these beliefs are necessary for our survival. But they are just beliefs.

Would you call these things "useful beliefs"? 

Can a belief be useful? 

belief is that which you have not experienced

but don't believe me ... check based on your own examples .... then belief becomes truth

[Gabith]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Vision Reality and illusion are identical.

You are dreaming. Enjoy the dream. Dream whatever dream you want. There is nothing outside the dream so don't wait for anything better or realer. This is it.

It's amazing...

[Scholar]

It's a semantic game to you because you don't recognize the nature of Isness. Reality is Illusion, it's one word for the same thing, so you might aswell say that Illusion is Reality. It works both ways.

 

However when we talk about this in the context of Enlightenment, it is more like you are letting go of a certain aspect of illusion or realness, which previously existed. And that recontextualizes the other dimensions of what you call experience.

Interestingly enough this kind of recontextualization is not any more real than the previous one, it is still part of delusion (different from illusion). Without delusion, you couldn't even call reality illusion or reality, because both of these things would be reveal as nothing but their own substances, which you confuse for every other substance.

 

Nothingness isn't Illusiory, it isn't real, it isn't imaginary. Rather, illusionness, realness and imaginariness are aspects and forms that come from the Sourceless, that which is Mysterious. The Mysterious cannot be described, it is self-descriptive, so everything you will claim about what it's nature is, will be it's nature, but merely one of it's infinite natures.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Scholar

[Vision]

1 minute ago, gettoefl said:

belief is that which you have not experienced

but don't believe me ... check based on your own examples ...

@gettoefl

That is exactly what I am saying. 

2 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

then belief becomes truth

What do you mean "belief becomes truth"? When a belief is directly experienced to be true, it is no longer a belief. If that is what you mean, then we are in agreement. 

 

Just wanted to say: notice how we have exactly the same number of posts lol

3 minutes ago, Gabith said:

It's amazing...

@Gabith Is "it" you? 

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Vision said:

Why does it still feel good to have an impact on "others" through our Life Purpose when there is no such thing?

When you exhibit selflessness you are aligning with the Absolute which is Love.

 

[Vision]

@Inliytened1 If the Absolute and Love is our nature, Is selflessness also our nature? 

[Nahm]

16 minutes ago, Vision said:

Isn't everything?

What’ ‘everything’? Rhetorical, doesn’t matter. The non-repetition of thoughts which veil matters, as in, is relevant. The freeing of the mind. 

16 minutes ago, Vision said:

I don't really see what's going on. I don't understand the parent's role in relation to the kids. 

Doesn’t matter really. The suggestion wasn’t to think & understand, but to imagine & feel. 

16 minutes ago, Vision said:

And what is the "self" that my thoughts are thinking about? It doesn't exist? 

Worthwhile inquiry imo. 

“My thoughts are thinking” is one thought. 

Maybe something else to notice that might ‘click’ / be helpful… 

The dogmatic love to take pokes at the seekers, and the seekers love to take pokes at the dogmatic, while both are believing it’s somewhere else, another time, this other thing, this other no thing, someone else.