Understanding & Coping with Solipsism

[r0ckyreed]

Hello fellow Actualizers. I know, I know.  Another solipsism thread; however, I felt called to make a post the specifically addresses Solipsism as a part of the spiritual process of God-Realization based on my own experiences with being in the solipsism phase.  Solipsism has been a huge obstacle for me (and I also suspect it has been an issue with "other" "seekers" as well) and I think it still is for some part.  Is solipsism a trap on the spiritual journey or a feature of it?  I will give you my take on solipsism and enlightenment.  I will post my objections and answers, and I will post my questions are in the conclusion section.  This is my understanding based on my experiences thus far.

Introduction

In my own experience, I have realized that Consciousness is all there is and there is nothing outside of direct experience and it is completely infinite.  Since the ego is an illusion, there are no "others" because there is also no-self.  The question then arises if there are "other" consciousnesses or "other" experiences?  But deeper contemplation reveals that Consciousness is completely one and ultimately alone, imagining other consciousnesses, imagining a self, and imagining others.  Consciousness is in avidya or ignorance with identifying itself as the dream character instead of realizing it is the entire dream experience.

Misconceptions of Solipsism

There are many misconceptions and stigmas with solipsism.  A lot of people think that solipsism is "bad" that being completely alone is "bad."  But these are all labels and judgments onto what actually is.  Togetherness and aloneness are one in that since consciousness is one, it is either alone nor is it together.  In the relative sense, we are all alone together and realizing that, you go full-circle, which can help you cope with nihilism and solipsism.

One of the misconceptions and assumptions I notice is that people make a worldview out of solipsism as being the ego as the only thing that exists and everything else is imagination.  This is false if you consider the dream analogy.  When you are in a dream, you think you are the character in the dream. But when you take the red pill (a psychedelic), you awaken from the illusion that you are no longer a part of something, but that you are everything.  You are the entire dream talking with yourself, ultimately alone.  But the misconception is to think that being alone on your own little solipsistic island is a bad thing.  When solipsism goes full-circle, you realize that there is no island, but that there is a world.  You are not cut off from the world alone, you are everything which completely shatters the duality between aloneness and togetherness.  You are literally everything and all is occurring in this eternity of a moment is direct experience interacting with itself and you eventually also drop the idea of solipsism.  When you are literally present in this experience right now, you realize the present moment has no "others." Contemplate exactly what is meant by "other" and "yourself."  Since direct experience is one, there are no other direct experiences now.  All that has been going on is direct experience.

Coping with Solipsism

How do we get off the solipsistic island?  By realizing that the island is the mind's own creation to try to ground itself into something that cannot be grounded.  Here i will distinguish between true and false solipsism, where false solipsism sees itself on an island completely alone and isolated from the world (because this solipsism is still highly egotistical).  Whereas true solipsism realizing that since the ego is an illusion, that means that all "others" are the same as Myself as Consciousness.  

It is important to learn to go "further" as Jed McKenna stated.  Also realize that any suffering with solipsism is another worldview and identity the ego is trying to latch onto.  The ego may eventually let go of the realism identity and adopt the spiritual ego identity of solipsism.  Eventually, the solipsism identity must be dropped and deconstructed.  This is a part of what it means to go meta.  Leo gave great examples of going beyond skepticism and all theories and worldviews.  Solipsism in the sense of being the only ego is a theory, but it is true in the sense of being the Self or Consciousness that only exists.  There are many meanings and interpretations for how your mind constructs reality.  Notice this.  Notice all the interpretations and reframe solipsism as being total freedom than as being a prisoner to yourself forever.  Can you see how going through solipsism and going meta on it is total freedom?  Total freedom is awakening from all illusions of attachment and identification with the self.

Objections: Prior to experiences of "solipsism" as being "true" or direct experience as being all there is with no others, it is very radical to accept complete aloneness as God.  The mistake with God or Consciousness is that people think it is some "mystical" realm that you access, but isn't it just this moment right here with a higher recontextualization of this moment?  

Q: Some of the objections I have had about solipsism have included that my dog believes in an external reality.  My dog right now is outside my door barking to get my attention.  The dog has an idea of object permanence and external reality, so how can I be a fool in denying that my dog exists independently of me?

A: Consider that consciousness or direct experience is the foundation of everything and is everything that exists.  You imagine your dog, yourself, and you experience sounds that you associate with the concept "dog" but a dog is a certain concept and experience within Consciousness.  What this means is that when you were born, the entire universe was born and when you die, the universe dies.  But then again, what is infinite has no birth or death in the absolute sense.

Q: Okay I get how I can only know that I exist, but that does not mean that there are no other experiences or consciousnesses taken place behind the scenes right?  Just because I don't observe something does not mean it doesn't exist right?

A: Well what does it mean for something to exist?  What is existence if there is no appearances?  All we have are appearances/experiences occurring right now.  You exist as the bubble of perception/appearance/experience/whatever you wanna call it; however realize that I call it a bubble, but true infinity has no shape.  Notice what behind the scenes really is.  It is existing as nothing in this moment right now.  Behind the scenes is always imagined here and now by the mind.  Observation is existence.  If you cannot observe to exist, then imagine a universe that has no experience, perception or appearance.  What is the difference between a universe without subjectivity or experience vs. a non-existent universe?  Notice that non-existence is a concept that exists now in experience now.  But if there is no experience/perception/appearance, then what could you really mean by existence if everything that you say has existed has taken place within Direct Experience?

Q: So if we both close our eyes and I shoot you with a gun, you won't die?

A: Well think about it like a first-person shooter video game.  In a video game, there is no external reality, but there is only the appearance or illusion of one.  In a video game, I can turn my character away from another and I can still get shot in the back even though I never perceived the shooter.  Since consciousness imagines everything including external reality and object permanence, there is no difference between reality and imagination. 

These were some of the objections I had and that I think many others have had.  

Conclusion

How do you understand solipsism? How have you coped with solipsism?  What is your take on what I have stated?  Do you agree/disagree?  What is the difference between solipsism and enlightenment? Is solipsism a bug or a feature?

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by r0ckyreed

[Javfly33]

Don't worry my friend, everything is good. This reality is to have fun and share joy and love with yourself! 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, nuwu said:

@Javfly33 Wrong. I am Evil and You will suffer because of me. This is what you deserve for being better than me, don't you dare.

"b-but noo... we are One!".

Delusional. Enjoy your all next incarnations where you will be servicing me as the most pathetic slaves existentially possible.

"w-what... im just going to be everything.."

No, you are going to be nothing. Stop dreaming.

Don't be so immature. 

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

How do you understand solipsism?

Being prior to apparent thoughts via daily meditation. The implied duality is illuminated as, or ‘collapses into’ truth. 

Quote

How have you coped with solipsism?

Non-coping by relinquishing dualistic beliefs / ‘liberation’/ ‘awakening’ / ‘enlightenment’ / ‘Truth’. Non-claimant, or if you like, simple humility. 

Quote

 What is your take on what I have stated?  

Actuality. 

[molosku]

Thinking you need to get "off" the solipsism island or otherwise "work" it IS the solipsism island lmao. It's too simple, but somehow gets so much emphasis on this forum: you need to think about solipsism to have a notion of it. It's literally just words. What is ultimately true must be true for all thinking and non-thinking beings equally, which is precisely "questioned" by solipsism. It's a trap, grab a rope.

I think someone here said it well: if you have difficulty with solipsism you simply need to get out more and enjoy the company of others, create deeper relationships and snap out of this madness

Edited July 14, 2021 by molosku

[r0ckyreed]

22 minutes ago, molosku said:

if you have difficulty with solipsism you simply need to get out more and enjoy the company of others, create deeper relationships and snap out of this madness

But also realize that there is nothing wrong with being alone. At a deeper level it is still you talking to yourself. Solipsism can be freeing in a way that you realize that you don’t need to create the illusion of others to feel connected and that there is nothing wrong with being alone.

Madness is being lost in duality and separation of thinking you need “others” is it not?

Edited July 14, 2021 by r0ckyreed

[ZzzleepingBear]

22 minutes ago, molosku said:

Thinking you need to get "off" the solipsism island or otherwise "work" it IS the solipsism island lmao. It's too simple, but somehow gets so much emphasis on this forum: you need to think about solipsism to have a notion of it. It's literally just words. What is ultimately true must be true for all thinking and non-thinking beings equally, which is precisely "questioned" by solipsism. It's a trap, grab a rope.

I think someone here said it well: if you have difficulty with solipsism you simply need to get out more and enjoy the company of others, create deeper relationships and snap out of this madness

That is some sound advice^^

 

I might add this for OP. Is the snake a rope? Or is the rope a snake? It might depend on how fast you looked, or how good the lighting was etc. Solipsism is at best a mental gymnastic, and don't get me wrong I don't hate on Solipsism. But it is a sort of mental gymnastic that can be both fun and engaging, and a potential mind exercise.

Why would that solipsism mind search for answears outside itself, and then proclaim that any answear it reads, is of it's own making? Solipsism claim to know itself as the ultimate singular. But such solipsism reasoning are dependant on dissregarding everything else as a fluke in regards and favour to the Solipsism midset.

One way out of Solipsism if that is desired. Is to acknowledge the possibility that this Solipsism midset is a sort of reduction of the world it sees, and that thinking minds no matter how great, do inherit both biases and limitation inorder to play out certain relationships. The mind might be finite, but that doesn't mean that there must be a indirect problem to be solved in that regard.

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

But also realize that there is nothing wrong with being alone. At a deeper level it is still you talking to yourself. Solipsism can be freeing in a way that you realize that you don’t need to create the illusion of others to feel connected and that there is nothing wrong with being alone.

Madness is being lost in duality and separation of thinking you need “others” is it not?

 

Oh no, baby. There's no "deeper level". There is just this level.

It's You and you are creating it. Other people are exactly like NPC's. They don't exist at all. You won't even "experience their POV one time" like some users like to say around here. 

It's time to accept what you have realized and embrace it. 

And yeah, overall you are so right. It's such good news you don't need anybody to feel complete.

[Javfly33]

23 minutes ago, dflores321 said:

@r0ckyreed you arent alone or the only one who exists. 

^took me some time to get outta this lonely God phase, this will hold you back if you stay in it. Move on. Just meditate, keep letting go. 

There is no other, which means no self to be alone. 

No offense, but this is ego. The reason why it is hard to accept solipsism is because the ego has grown huge ("God") , but the ego is afraid of everything including itself, so what does it do? It shrinks to a little sad person (dark night of the soul), and it constantly fears the vastness of the universe/god, which is actually the bigger ego. 

@Javfly33 thinking I'm an npc in your field of experience is a huge face palm.

Not because I exist, but because I don't exist, and neither do you, theres no self, and no other. 

I notice a lot of people falling into this trap lately and it's dangerous. It leads to spiritual ego and arrogance, as you silently look at us no-things as an illusion and believe you are true. 

Of course. I know What is true, i know you are just an idea in my mind.

i know i am creating you .

You are just a figment of my imagination that hasnt yet accepted its own Godhood. 

Time to accept some stuff brother

 

 

[Javfly33]

Just now, dflores321 said:

@Javfly33 do you not notice the spiritual ego here? 

I'm just a figment of imagination = you feeling proud that you are "real". 

I haven't accepted my own godhood = you are some wise man and I'm just a confused child who hasn't stepped up to your level. 

Yeah, you might have a point. I think i might have developed some kind of spiritual ego.

It doesnt change the fact that I'm God & Real and you are only imaginary tho' ?

 

 

[lmfao]

11 hours ago, nuwu said:

Enjoy your all next incarnations where you will be servicing me as the most pathetic slaves existentially possible.

What sort of Zodiac Killer roleplaying is this? It reminds me a lot of that lmao 

Edited July 14, 2021 by lmfao

[ZzzleepingBear]

16 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Of course. I know What is true, i know you are just an idea in my mind.

i know i am creating you .

You are just a figment of my imagination that hasnt yet accepted its own Godhood. 

Time to accept some stuff brother

 

 

Do with this what you will, but consider this..

When you say "I know I am creating you" and "You are just a figment of my imagination"

You might want to start asking yourself, what exactly is it that I'm creating here?

The conclution you seem to have arrived at, is that by denying anyones separate existing life as being appart of your own being or imagination. You gain some minor control of the emotional outcome with anyone you interact with if you play into this Solipsism game of it's "all me" that is real in the end of the day.. right? 

Nobody can intentionally affect your feelings if you decide when or what interaction is real or not as you please. And since your feelings isn't really out there in the world. The world must be an illusion or figment of your imagination right?

What this solipsism conclution is, is a half-baked truth at best. Sure, you are the one who have full responsibility of your thoughts/actions/emotions. That makes up the whole world as you see it. It could not be any other way.. BUT. Your view of the world is also your personal perspective/interpretation of the world. This solipsism view shuts down your own potential openness and respect of individuals other than yourself. And so you will close yourself down and make yourself inaccessible in relating with to others who might hold a very different view of things than than you do. And while being wrong hurts sometimes, it will make you stronger each time you are fully honest with yourself. 

Solipsism is bound to make you dense in your own convitions, and also less and less relatable as a compassionate human. Since the consideration of feelings of others, are easily dissmissed as irrelevant noice in your own mind, you will eventually have a harder time to relate to others at an emotional level. Since any emotional relationship require a certain vulnerability. Vulnerability is essentially your openness towards uncertainty when relating with others. 

 

 

 

[gettoefl]

19 hours ago, dflores321 said:

@Javfly33 do you not notice the spiritual ego here? 

I'm just a figment of imagination = you feeling proud that you are "real". 

I haven't accepted my own godhood = you are some wise man and I'm just a confused child who hasn't stepped up to your level. 

yep indeed

here is how to correct spiritual ego

change i am god

to you are god

i's to you's, and you's to i's

[Javfly33]

@ZzzleepingBear yet emotional vulnerability it's sometimes bad strategy in much of the world we live in. In stage blue/orange societies, emotional vulnerability will get you fucked in the ass, it also won't get you laid

If I'd live in a commune stage green/yellow my behaviour would change a lot. I would let go of much of my ego, I would flow and share more from the root and heart chakra energy, etc. But since I am not, I have to make this act of "I don't give a shit, you aint real anyway" to not feel empathic so I can be as selfish as I want and that way I can avoid getting fucked in the ass continually.

As I said, the last 2 years I work a lot with connection, emotional vulnerability, etc and honestly all that it reached me is that people are selfish as Fuck, they don't have a clue about non duality so they NEVER will see you as themselves. And so since I can't fucking stand being a selfish prick since I know I am them, solipsism is great because if they are not even real I can behave like a real asshole with no remorse ?

[Zeroguy]

17 hours ago, lmfao said:

What sort of Zodiac Killer roleplaying is this? It reminds me a lot of that lmao 

The one that I also want to play. ?

 

[Zeroguy]

Return to marketplace and you play game as everyone else does that's the end of all of this. 

You return to "ego". 

[Javfly33]

40 minutes ago, Zeroguy said:

Return to marketplace and you play game as everyone else does that's the end of all of this. 

You return to "ego". 

Kinda Depressing?

But also such a big relief to stop the fantasy of becoming "selfless" ?

[Nahm]

There might not be an actuality to the implied simultaneity of understanding and coping. Some overlap over in way, but, maybe a worthwhile point. 

(The yawn emoji was hysterical btw)

[ZzzleepingBear]

32 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@ZzzleepingBear yet emotional vulnerability it's sometimes bad strategy in much of the world we live in. In stage blue/orange societies, emotional vulnerability will get you fucked in the ass, it also won't get you laid

If I'd live in a commune stage green/yellow my behaviour would change a lot. I would let go of much of my ego, I would flow and share more from the root and heart chakra energy, etc. But since I am not, I have to make this act of "I don't give a shit, you aint real anyway" to not feel empathic so I can be as selfish as I want and that way I can avoid getting fucked in the ass continually.

As I said, the last 2 years I work a lot with connection, emotional vulnerability, etc and honestly all that it reached me is that people are selfish as Fuck, they don't have a clue about non duality so they NEVER will see you as themselves. And so since I can't fucking stand being a selfish prick since I know I am them, solipsism is great because if they are not even real I can behave like a real asshole with no remorse ?

My advice to you is to drop the colour tags that you have mentally put on people, and that change alone will make it easier to opening yourself up for the possibility to get a glimpse into anyones deeper sense of self beyond your premade assumtions about who you have to come to believe certain people are. Kindness goes along way, but by all means figure out your own bounderys that makes sense to assert when needed.

It is great to be aware of no duality, but if you run into someone who haven't got into non duality but are treating you well and with respect either way, don't you think that rings just as true for treating you as themselves despite not knowing about non duality? The very kind act itself should speak volumes if you can recognize it for what it is, rather than doubt anyones  intellectual knowledge about their own kindness in action.

People can indeed act very selfishly.. And they can also act very generous. But they can't be both at the same time in the very moment. So an act of selfishness can't determine wheter a person IS selfish or not, but rather show a tendency of their general behaviour under ordinary circumstances.

Pay attention to nuances in life. If your black and white conclutions about life feels like a safespot right now. Then fine, just keep in mind that grayscales will eventually creep into any Solipstic shell you try to build for yourself, and things can, and will be confusing if you adopt a too rigid mindset around this idea you have right now. My apology for not adressing your points directly here, my intent is not to sound like a know-it-all. But what I tried to point out here for you. Is that your whole solipsistic view of life shows me someone who try their best to put their head in the sand.. It is okey to be confused.. It can also suck to confused. But acting like you have it all figured out by pushing yourself into a solipsistic mindset will not make things less confusing down the road. That is basically what I want you to be aware of. Just be you, as much as dare today. Be kind to yourself and others around you. That's a good starting ground to stand on.

[caspex]

still feels weird when someone with all this in their understanding comes up to you and tells you that "You're just an idea I am creating" online. Yet you clearly have your direct experience. So the person who told you that must be deluded. Honestly I don't know. I can't come up with any conclusion regarding this matter.

I am what is, but what is isn't as well. But clearly, what isn't also is. So could the things I think isn't actually be?

ok enough confusing talk. Clearly I know there IS only what IS. Means there is no more than direct experience, and imagining other experiences is also within my own direct experience. But I can't for the life of me see how it makes sense to think there is nothing else happening simultaneously. I mean it could be the case, but also couldn't. I simply don't know.