Pickup is leading to frustration

[StarStruck]

22 hours ago, Hulia said:

@StarStruck May I give you one advise? I sometimes gave fake numbers too. Because it´s the easiest and fastest was to get rid of a guy, without long explanations. Well the easier way would be to cut a guy in the very beginning by the PU approch. But somehow you think: This guy looks nice. Let´s try again, maybe it will be ok this time. And then it´s getting creepy and boring, when the guy begins to utter some standard PU lines or puts exaggerated self-confidence, and the worst thing is when a stranger makes intimacy hints and tries to be sexy or something. And then I thought to myself: What did you expect, Hulia? That the guy sees you on the street and thinks: "Oh this girl looks like she is exactly the right one to speak about Hegel. I need to learn her!"?

 

Good points. I'm already aware of it but sometimes I forget it.

They call it PUAism versus socializing.
PUAism is meant to get something from the girl
Socializing is meant to get to know her.

Can I ask you something? If a guy is hot enough do you tolerate PUAism? I feel like it is just my looks that hurt my success ratio. I don't look bad but I'm also not a looker. I really can't change that about myself though. Best I can do is to minimize my creepiness and boringness. Also I tend to smile a lot, I think it is too much and I can't stop it. lol.

Quote

My advice is: forget everything about sex and getting-laid-stuff at your 1st approach! Your main task at the 1st approach is to prove a girl, that you are not a perv doing PU but a normal guy like a classmate or a neighbor just accidently caught by her beauty. Talk about anything that has nothing to do with sex. It´s better that you give her a light insight in your ordinary normal life, if you shortly mentions a sister or a mother for example, or talk about your study or whotever - ordinary things, don´t try to be extravagant! At first approach you have to prove that you are not a perv! 

By using this I got a phone number of a really good looking girl but guess what. I asked her what she is doing today and if she wants to meet. No, answer yet.

I never get fake numbers by the way.

19 hours ago, Roy said:

@StarStruck that's frustrating I'm sorry. I would maybe hold back though from saying things like that because it can spoil the relationship. It may be that she has different expectations of how much you see each other while dating. Some people like a few times a week, others a few times a month. One of those compatibility things I mentioned a while ago. It's hard for the stars to align so to speak.

I know but the communication almost died out since she flaked on me coming to my home. I'm just dumb struck how cold hearted these girls can be. It went from I'm coming to your home to radio silence, and I gave her nothing in the mean time to change her mind about me. If anything, I learned that I need to be cold hearted as these girls. Why shouldn't I be ruthless to pursue my self interest like them?

Quote

You are talking to and dating other girls right? That should ease and put things in perspective right. Don't commit too much to any one relationship unless it's clear you are both going that way and you've talked about it.

If it makes you feel any better I've had like 12/14 girls flake, end things, or be confused about what they want in the past month and a half alone  it's tough stuff but when you find that right connection holy shit is it worth it.

I can go to the city centre and get few numbers but none want to meet. My flake rates from girls are extraordinary high.

[Peter Miklis]

22 hours ago, Hulia said:

My advice is: forget everything about sex and getting-laid-stuff at your 1st approach! Your main task at the 1st approach is to prove a girl, that you are not a perv doing PU but a normal guy like a classmate or a neighbor just accidently caught by her beauty. Talk about anything that has nothing to do with sex. It´s better that you give her a light insight in your ordinary normal life, if you shortly mentions a sister or a mother for example, or talk about your study or whotever - ordinary things, don´t try to be extravagant! At first approach you have to prove that you are not a perv! 

You know, I gotta say, you really are out of touch with reality on this one.

You gotta sexualize the conversation. You simply have to, of course not necessarily bluntly, like I wanna fuck you, but the intention should be known from the get go.

You know what I often heard from girls when they were talking together about guys? "When are we finally gonna fuck?" Yeah. What a shocker, right? Not every woman wants a fucking relationship.

[StarStruck]

On 17-7-2021 at 10:28 AM, Preety_India said:

No. I don't remember approaching a guy in my life ever. So i don't remember being flaked. Maybe it was some other user.

But I was just wondering about your issue.

Consider this possibility -

Maybe the girls simply give their number to you to avoid you in the moment and not because they're genuinely attracted to you. I remember Leo saying this once where a girl giving her number is not the ultimate deal, a lot of them do that to avoid the guy eventually. Maybe they already have the plan to flake on you and they wait till the last moment. This means that enough attraction is not being built. 

It could be that you are always in a hurry to set up date without giving the girl adequate time to decide whether she should turn up. Maybe you immediately close the deal right after a few conversations. A a few preliminary conversations are not enough for the female brain to make a quick decision. She might feel unsure and insecure. Maybe spend more time texting them so they get to know you better. Build some chemistry, talk a lot. After many conversations over days, you develop a rapport with the girl and now you snugly fit into her comfort zone and she would be more likely to want to show up to a date. It could be that your lack of communication makes her feel like you're still a stranger and then she is not able to make up her mind and ends up flaking on you at the last minute. If this is the case, then consider allowing more time before deciding to meet directly.

 

That is true but what can I do different. Most girls only have max 10 minutes to talk. My conversations are usually between 5-15 minutes with majority to the short end.

If I play my cards right I usually get her number but I don't get the chance to implement your strategy of chatting her up. They either immediately say they changed their minds about me or they ghost me.

13 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I don't agree with you. This goes against female psychology. I can't give you a lengthy explanation because I'm in a hurry right now ( maybe some other day). 

But what I want to say in short is that women need to get to know the guy better before they can go meet a guy who is a rando stranger that dropped his number. I don't think women make decisions on a whim. There are a thousand thoughts running through a woman's mind when she is thinking about whether to accept or reject.

You're completely downplaying the challenges a woman faces in decision making. 

I understand your issues where you feel like the woman is stringing you along and I admit that it's a horrible and frustrating experience yet it is extremely naive to expect a woman to not want a connection with you before taking things to the next level.

Women don't rapidly get intimate, it's just not female nature. We are slow creatures who need time and attention to get accustomed to things. Women are very sensual and everything for a woman is not all about sex.

Women are emotional creatures. You're selectively using @Leo Gura 's dating advice to fit your goals and plans.. it's not just about you. You aren't dating plastic doll. You're dating a real human being. Remember Leo always talks about EMOTIONAL STIMULATION. You have completely glossed over it because it obviously needs hard work that you don't want to put in.

If you simply want sex, you need to find women who sleep with any random stranger all the time, which I highly doubt because I can only imagine the high risk she is exposing herself to where she doesn't even know the guy and has sex with him, STDs, rape , the list goes on and on.

But most women I have interacted with are level headed and would want to get to know a guy well enough before engaging in a relationship with them.

Also you need to create some Emotional attraction and emotional stimulation if you want fast results. Because women simply do not walk to a guy's bedroom just because he is a guy. That would be considered a very desperate move for a woman. Women themselves stay away from such desperate behaviour and detest such desperation in other women and men..

Every woman wants a respectful relationship where she feels valued and she feels that the guy dating her is not too desperate.

Being desperate with a woman gives her only ONE SIGNAL and that signal is a loud flag that screams - FUCKBOY.

So most women immediately flake or move away from the illness called fuckboy because they don't want to be infected by it. There is no value or respect or dignity or anything in being around a fuckboy because it makes the woman feel emotionally deprived and stunted. It makes her ill with guilt and regret. She doesn't want this deal. Unless it's a mutually agreed upon FWB or friends with benefits. But most women who want a healthy relationship just avoid the fuckboys like the plague. That's their greatest fear in dating men, their greatest regret. 

Compare it to something like men dating a golddigger. Most men would be extremely regretful and disgusted knowing that they are dating a golddigger, if they are high value guys, they are extremely scared of attracting such women, because that's the last thing they want. Similarly a fuckboy is the last thing a woman who considers herself valuable wants. She just hates dating men who belong to that box.

Like I said a lot of what you're saying goes against female psychology.

Don't peg a woman so cheap. 

Women want high value relationships, not simply sleeping with any dude who finds them attractive. She wants to know why she should be dating you and not some other guy 

Give her a reason to want you and desire you.. stand to her standards. Pretty sure most women have basic standards. They don't have a laundry list. 

So it's kinda easy to pass those standards with minimal effort.

All you need to do is give up your limiting beliefs, understand female psychology and what women are attracted to, build Emotional attraction and emotional stimulation and I'm sure some woman will value the time you gave to her 

 

From your past posts, you said multiple times that you would open conversations with women by talking about porn. It's an absolute no no 

It shows you have zero knowledge about female psychology.

Before you begin your journey to dating women, at least try to understand women , that will help.

 

 

Thanks for these insights. You talk down on fuckboys but fuckboys get much more game than me, so there is something that they are doing right and I'm doing wrong.

I have a friend who is a fuckboy and he get's massively rewarded by girls for being what he is and they know from their core that he is a fuckboy and they are attracted to that.

He does do these things you are talking about very well though

• He is very good at emotional stimulation
• He is not desperate
• He has big heart but he lies to just get in their pants
• A lot of girls just throw sex at them although they just met him
• But he does have low morals

1 minute ago, Peter Miklis said:

You know, I gotta say, you really are out of touch with reality on this one.

You gotta sexualize the conversation. You simply have to, of course not necessarily bluntly, like I wanna fuck you, but the intention should be known from the get go.

You know what I often heard from girls when they were talking together about guys? "When are we finally gonna fuck?" Yeah. What a shocker, right? Not every woman wants a fucking relationship.

For some women what they want: relationship or one night stand can change depending on the time of the month.

Edited July 18, 2021 by StarStruck

[Peter Miklis]

@StarStruck And supposedly, depending on time of the year also, or so I heard. I don't know if it's true or not, but women are supposedly more likely to look for relationships on winter months, and more likely to look for hookups on summer months.

Based on my observations, this theory is probably bullshit, just felt like sharing, for shits and giggles?

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Thanks for these insights. You talk down on fuckboys but fuckboys get much more game than me, so there is something that they are doing right and I'm doing wrong.

I have a friend who is a fuckboy and he get's massively rewarded by girls for being what he is and they know from their core that he is a fuckboy and they are attracted to that.

He does do these things you are talking about very well though

• He is very good at emotional stimulation
• He is not desperate
• He has big heart but he lies to just get in their pants
• A lot of girls just throw sex at them although they just met him
• But he does have low morals

My advice is not tailored for men who are only looking for sex. When I'm talking about dating, it's from the perspective of relationships. So it's not applicable to "only sex" scenarios. 

With fuckboys that's the problem. They get sex and of course there are girls who offer them that happily. Yet they are rejected and not wanted by women who are looking for serious relationships. Women with relationships in mind screen them out because they're not relationship material. 

You have to decide what you are looking for. Whether it's a one night stand or casual sex or a solid LTR. My advice is tailored for the latter, that is solid LTR(discounting open relationships, only monogamous relationships) and not the former 2 options.

 

[StarStruck]

Today I got an instant date and another real cute girl who was interested who keeps texting back. I don't know what I did different. I think major point is this: emotional spiking is very important. 

As a guy it is better to be a massive dick that pokes her emotions than be the best guy who is just boring and doesn't spike her emotions. 

That is the lesson I learned from this thread. Probably there is more but I need to contemplate. 

3 hours ago, ll Ontology ll said:

@StarStruck Books are the worst idea unless you want to formally study algorithms at an advanced level and even still most of your training here like game theory is in practice. Just start doing it right away, ideate all the algorithms you could create, choose the ones most relevant to you i.e. as per our discussion and get going. The brain is a contractile tissue grouped into coordinated systems for greater efficiency ("muscle" - didn't want to say that though as that's bland  ).

I don't know much about algorithms and I wouldn't know how to construct them. That is the problem.

[Striving for more]

On 17/07/2021 at 2:12 PM, Hulia said:

@StarStruck May I give you one advise? I sometimes gave fake numbers too. Because it´s the easiest and fastest was to get rid of a guy, without long explanations. Well the easier way would be to cut a guy in the very beginning by the PU approch. But somehow you think: This guy looks nice. Let´s try again, maybe it will be ok this time. And then it´s getting creepy and boring, when the guy begins to utter some standard PU lines or puts exaggerated self-confidence, and the worst thing is when a stranger makes intimacy hints and tries to be sexy or something. And then I thought to myself: What did you expect, Hulia? That the guy sees you on the street and thinks: "Oh this girl looks like she is exactly the right one to speak about Hegel. I need to learn her!"?

My advice is: forget everything about sex and getting-laid-stuff at your 1st approach! Your main task at the 1st approach is to prove a girl, that you are not a perv doing PU but a normal guy like a classmate or a neighbor just accidently caught by her beauty. Talk about anything that has nothing to do with sex. It´s better that you give her a light insight in your ordinary normal life, if you shortly mentions a sister or a mother for example, or talk about your study or whotever - ordinary things, don´t try to be extravagant! At first approach you have to prove that you are not a perv! 

Loooooool... Never ever take dating advice from girls. Not this chick especially.

Ask the guys who are actually getting results themselves. 

It's way better to sexualize. I'd rather sexualize & make intentions clear, rather than fucking wasting loads of time talking about "ooh I'm just a normaly guy who accidentally is speaking to you, oh you have a sister ok".

That's so boring and I don't have time for that. 

Yes a bit of normal chit chat is fine and expected, but fuck this hiding intentions nice guy nonsense. 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Striving for more

[StarStruck]

@Striving for more

I actually appreciated Hulia's response. Female perspective is different than male perspective. And from her point of view it might seem that way. We can still learn from female perspective but we are not females. We kind of need to reverse engineer their advice. 

Guys who are good with girls can implicitly communicate sexuality. That is where seduction happens. That is where the magic happens. It seems a lot of girls are not aware of this. 

For girls it is important how they feel. Nothing else is important really. That is what I learned. 

 

 

[Hardkill]

On 7/17/2021 at 3:20 PM, Preety_India said:

I don't agree with you. This goes against female psychology. I can't give you a lengthy explanation because I'm in a hurry right now ( maybe some other day). 

But what I want to say in short is that women need to get to know the guy better before they can go meet a guy who is a rando stranger that dropped his number. I don't think women make decisions on a whim. There are a thousand thoughts running through a woman's mind when she is thinking about whether to accept or reject.

You're completely downplaying the challenges a woman faces in decision making. 

I understand your issues where you feel like the woman is stringing you along and I admit that it's a horrible and frustrating experience yet it is extremely naive to expect a woman to not want a connection with you before taking things to the next level.

Women don't rapidly get intimate, it's just not female nature. We are slow creatures who need time and attention to get accustomed to things. Women are very sensual and everything for a woman is not all about sex.

Women are emotional creatures. You're selectively using @Leo Gura 's dating advice to fit your goals and plans.. it's not just about you. You aren't dating plastic doll. You're dating a real human being. Remember Leo always talks about EMOTIONAL STIMULATION. You have completely glossed over it because it obviously needs hard work that you don't want to put in.

If you simply want sex, you need to find women who sleep with any random stranger all the time, which I highly doubt because I can only imagine the high risk she is exposing herself to where she doesn't even know the guy and has sex with him, STDs, rape , the list goes on and on.

But most women I have interacted with are level headed and would want to get to know a guy well enough before engaging in a relationship with them.

Also you need to create some Emotional attraction and emotional stimulation if you want fast results. Because women simply do not walk to a guy's bedroom just because he is a guy. That would be considered a very desperate move for a woman. Women themselves stay away from such desperate behaviour and detest such desperation in other women and men..

Every woman wants a respectful relationship where she feels valued and she feels that the guy dating her is not too desperate.

Being desperate with a woman gives her only ONE SIGNAL and that signal is a loud flag that screams - FUCKBOY.

So most women immediately flake or move away from the illness called fuckboy because they don't want to be infected by it. There is no value or respect or dignity or anything in being around a fuckboy because it makes the woman feel emotionally deprived and stunted. It makes her ill with guilt and regret. She doesn't want this deal. Unless it's a mutually agreed upon FWB or friends with benefits. But most women who want a healthy relationship just avoid the fuckboys like the plague. That's their greatest fear in dating men, their greatest regret. 

Compare it to something like men dating a golddigger. Most men would be extremely regretful and disgusted knowing that they are dating a golddigger, if they are high value guys, they are extremely scared of attracting such women, because that's the last thing they want. Similarly a fuckboy is the last thing a woman who considers herself valuable wants. She just hates dating men who belong to that box.

Like I said a lot of what you're saying goes against female psychology.

Don't peg a woman so cheap. 

Women want high value relationships, not simply sleeping with any dude who finds them attractive. She wants to know why she should be dating you and not some other guy 

Give her a reason to want you and desire you.. stand to her standards. Pretty sure most women have basic standards. They don't have a laundry list. 

So it's kinda easy to pass those standards with minimal effort.

All you need to do is give up your limiting beliefs, understand female psychology and what women are attracted to, build Emotional attraction and emotional stimulation and I'm sure some woman will value the time you gave to her 

 

From your past posts, you said multiple times that you would open conversations with women by talking about porn. It's an absolute no no 

It shows you have zero knowledge about female psychology.

Before you begin your journey to dating women, at least try to understand women , that will help.

 

12 hours ago, Preety_India said:

My advice is not tailored for men who are only looking for sex. When I'm talking about dating, it's from the perspective of relationships. So it's not applicable to "only sex" scenarios. 

With fuckboys that's the problem. They get sex and of course there are girls who offer them that happily. Yet they are rejected and not wanted by women who are looking for serious relationships. Women with relationships in mind screen them out because they're not relationship material. 

You have to decide what you are looking for. Whether it's a one night stand or casual sex or a solid LTR. My advice is tailored for the latter, that is solid LTR(discounting open relationships, only monogamous relationships) and not the former 2 options.

 

 

Just because I said in my past post a number of times that I have opened conversations with women talking about porn does not mean that I actually did that all of the time. In fact, I only did that a number of times on apps like Wakie and Facebook. However, whenever I've met new women IRL, I've never once opened that way. I also mentioned before in some of my other past posts that I had a girlfriend before who I met through cold approach on the street. We were together for almost 3 years. I've cold and warm approach hundreds of girls throughout my whole life in all kinds of venues and I even hooked up with some girls from online dating who just wanted sex. I've also mentioned before in other post of mine on this forum many of the most legit pickup and dating gurus/coaches out there consistently for years on how to succeed with women. I know I still have a lot more room for growth in many areas of my seduction and social skills, but to say I have zero knowledge about female psychology and how attract women is major overstatement. 

I know that women get sexually turned on slower than men do and yes a guy need to emotionally stimulate women in order to get her horny and comfortable enough to have sex with you. The three main keys of seduction required for a man to pull a woman into bed with her are Social Frame, Emotional Stimulation, and Sexual Arousal. Social Frame, is about making her feel okay to have sex with you. This is done by coming off as a guy who not only presents a high enough perceived social status and social skills around women and even people in general, but also involves you coming off as a guy who does not judge or slut-shame women. Projecting yourself as a man with reasonable high standards also helps with having good Social Frame.

https://www.girlschase.com/content/confused-about-pickup-and-seduction-article-will-change

If the guy is able to successfully activate those 3 keys within about 5 min. or more of meeting a chick you approach, then she quickly will sleep with you. It will seem like the guy instantaneously aroused the girl just within the very first minute of meeting her, but what really happened was that the guy had such smooth enough game that he was able to rapidly escalate the vibe enough to the point where she became horny enough from his influence within just a few minutes or so of meeting him. The other possibility could be that she was already horny enough to begin with even before he met her for whatever reason, in which case would mean that the guy pretty much just lucked up on getting sex with her.

So yes, a guy has to influence enough of a transition from first meeting her to sex, by socially, emotionally, and sexually inspiring her to want to date you or have sex with you, but you don't need to spend days building rapport and comfort with her on the phone or through texting.

Furthermore, like Starstruck said, there are a lot of girls out there, especially these days who can't help, but enjoy sleeping with fuckboys just for a good time. Not all women take sex as seriously as you think.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

@StarStruck Do not turn this sub-forum into a hive of devilry for your personal sexual gratification.

Engage in dating in a conscious and responsible manner.

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

Furthermore, like Starstruck said, there are a lot of girls out there, especially these days who can't help, but enjoy sleeping with fuckboys just for a good time. Not all women take sex as seriously as you think.

And not all women enjoy sleeping with fuckboys. So maybe you should know who you're approaching.

 

[StarStruck]

@Leo Gura I deleted that's unresponsible thread and I try to be conscious in this thread. 

@Preety_India the girls that like fuck boys don't admit they like them. That is the whole thing. Some girls even burn their fingers with fuck boys but they are so unaware that they keep going back to these type of guys because they are unconscious to what they are attracted. 

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

@Leo Gura I deleted that's unresponsible thread and I try to be conscious in this thread. 

@Preety_India the girls that like fuck boys don't admit they like them. That is the whole thing. Some girls even burn their fingers with fuck boys but they are so unaware that they keep going back to these type of guys because they are unconscious to what they are attracted. 

And why do you want to date such girls who aren't conscious enough of what they want?

 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, StarStruck said:

@Leo Gura I deleted that's unresponsible thread and I try to be conscious in this thread.

I mean stuff like this:

Quote

As a guy it is better to be a massive dick that pokes her emotions

Watch your selfish and manipulative behaviors.

[StarStruck]

@Leo Gura Ok. I got it.

I was overcompensating to get out of my nice guy syndrome. 

[StarStruck]

@ll Ontology ll authenticity is something I'm practicing in my life. I call it healthy egoism. I practice it with people around me but also on this forum but it is not appreciated by Leo. I do have some toxic elements and that is not weird from my pov considering my trauma's. 

[StarStruck]

4 hours ago, ll Ontology ll said:

@StarStruck Authenticity has several more layers than we think it does, always be sinking deeper. There's no real such thing as toxicity in the intelligence of it, you do need to intelligize it though which comes from a coupling between awareness and your best knowledge of how the world works outside your movements towards improving that understanding. Outside of rebalancing your perspective on Leo who's got his own personal issues like any other human it sounds alright though to me so you're on the right track. All the best - based on where you are this beats a book: https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-science/algorithms/intro-to-algorithms/v/what-are-algorithms

I love khan academy. Thanks. 

 

[bejapuskas]

@StarStruck @StarStruck  For guys it is also important how you feel no? Dont be repressed.

[Striving for more]

On 7/11/2021 at 2:49 PM, Gabith said:

Read or re-read Models by Mark Manson

Mark Manson's wife is ugly af. 

I'm sorry but you have no place to write dating books if you have an ugly girlfriend. I want to see Mark manson actually seduce a Hot, 8+ girl & pull her home with ease. Where is the proof of that from mr dating expert, aka scammer. 

Funny how he met her in Brazil too, where there is an abundance of beautiful women who give more leeweigh to white western man, yet he settled down with a girl I'd consider a 5.5/10 from a normal country.

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Striving for more

[vizual]

On 13-7-2021 at 11:52 AM, Snuitje said:

Why is never having a girlfiend so bad to you? Do you know how many people are in a relationship just so they can say: "But I'm in a relationship" These people are far from happy. I've seen it all around me. They poison eachother with pain and fear.

I think it's trying to teach you self-love. A girlfriend will come when you love yourself and when you're not desperate for one. The pain that you're feeling won't go away with a high closing rate.

I have experienced multiple times that a person asks me if I am married or have a girlfriend. When I answer with a no, they ask me 'uhm why not?', in the tone of voice where they are actually asking 'so what's wrong with you dude?'.