Pickup is leading to frustration

[Rinne]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Bullshit

The best guys who go out constantly only sleep with maybe 30 girls per year. 30/year would be master pro level. And to get those 30 they approach 1000+

leo would you say this applies for an average looking guy or below average? or both. probably with above average the numbers ill be higher. what are your thoughts from ur experiences u seen? 

[Hardkill]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Bullshit

The best guys who go out constantly only sleep with maybe 30 girls per year. 30/year would be master pro level. And to get those 30 they approach 1000+

Well, I’ve talked to a number of experienced successful pickup gurus myself, including Gunwitch himself who not only knew all of the actually had many of his own techniques stolen by all of the RSD guys. 

Which guys told you that 3% success lay rate is the highest that anyone can get?

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, Lucas-fgm said:

Yeah, Swedish guys are really handsome.

Nah, Italian.

 

[OneHandClap]

2 hours ago, Rinne said:

leo would you say this applies for an average looking guy or below average? or both. probably with above average the numbers ill be higher. what are your thoughts from ur experiences u seen? 

I'm not Leo (obviously), but I consider myself average, verging toward above average (28 years old), and the most women I pulled in one year came while I was living abroad. I'd completely stopped giving any fucks about rejection or even scoring. All I did was go out, talk with plenty of people, and enjoy myself. That "aura" seems to attract more people in the process.

In the end, it is a paradox. The less you actually care about succeeding with sleeping with someone, the higher the likelihood. Women (and to some degree, men) enjoy confidence and a mood-boosting presence. They don't want to spend time with people who are anxious, needy, and self-conscious to the point of being unnatural. 

[Girzo]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

Which guys told you that 3% success lay rate is the highest that anyone can get?

It probably depends on what you count as an approach, Leo probably counts everything, even saying hi and girl not giving a fuck at all, an interaction lasting 5 seconds, while someone claiming 20% success rate might be only counting as an approach situations which have turned into an interesting flirty conversation.

3% is the conversion rate I see everywhere repeating in business, sales and marketing. When I was doing ads it was typical for an ad to get that conversion when comparing sales with the number of people seeimg the ad, but counting only the people who had clicked on the ad the conversion would rise to 20-33%

[Preety_India]

Just now, Lucas-fgm said:

Yeah, but sadly Brazilian women, at least, prefer Swedish blonde guys way more hahaha more exotic lol.

 

 

Oh

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Lucas-fgm said:

But I feel that girls in northern Europe think "Italian-looking" guys are more attractive. I remember girls staring at me multiple times especially in the Netherlands. Even gay men hitting on me, multiple times too, the little time was there.

Are you Italian?

 

[Preety_India]

Just now, Lucas-fgm said:

 

No, but people in Europe used to think I was. But I'm Portuguese descendant. And southern Europeans look very similar.

I'm Portuguese descendant too.

 

[Gesundheit2]

@StarStruck

You once posted about a girl approaching you, so your looks are probably not the issue.

And in accordance to that, what you said here indicates that you're getting high initial interest (girls think you're attractive), but then you don't keep up with the expectations, and so they lose interest. That means there's something that you're saying or doing, or a certain vibe that you're emitting, probably unconsciously, that's repelling them. So to them, you're basically like a cute clickbait that doesn't match the content of your products. And to fix that issue, you probably should stop the clickbaiting and start being more authentic. Reduce your fake PUA confidence and increase your actual confidence by being detached from the outcome.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[StarStruck]

56 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@StarStruck

You once posted about a girl approaching you, so your looks are probably not the issue.

And in accordance to that, what you said here indicates that you're getting high initial interest (girls think you're attractive), but then you don't keep up with the expectations, and so they lose interest. That means there's something that you're saying or doing, or a certain vibe that you're emitting, probably unconsciously, that's repelling them. So to them, you're basically like a cute clickbait that doesn't match the content of your products. And to fix that issue, you probably should stop the clickbaiting and start being more authentic. Reduce your fake PUA confidence and increase your actual confidence by being detached from the outcome.

Bro, I don't even get the chance to show my authentic self. I can get phone numbers from cuties all the time and they show high enthusiasm, which can't be faked but I guess I don't build enough emotional connection or something.

This is how it goes:

1. I talk to her like 5-10 minutes. I can see her interest level so I close
2. I get her phone number and she agrees to get coffee or something
3. I text her and she flakes or ghost me

This happened numerous times.

The problem could be lack of emotional connection or perhaps they just don't like how I look. If it is the latter I can't do anything, if it is the former I can work on it but to be honest I'm a little bit lazy about it. My therapist says I can't make connections with others if I'm not able to make an emotional connection with myself: that is not easy! I'm emotionally dissociative all my life.

[bejapuskas]

@StarStruck Are you disociative in all social relationships? Do you trust people around you? Do you think your circle of friends is a safe space and that it makes you feel good, or would you say it is rather boring or toxic?

[StarStruck]

5 hours ago, OneHandClap said:

I'm not Leo (obviously), but I consider myself average, verging toward above average (28 years old), and the most women I pulled in one year came while I was living abroad. I'd completely stopped giving any fucks about rejection or even scoring. All I did was go out, talk with plenty of people, and enjoy myself. That "aura" seems to attract more people in the process.

In the end, it is a paradox. The less you actually care about succeeding with sleeping with someone, the higher the likelihood. Women (and to some degree, men) enjoy confidence and a mood-boosting presence. They don't want to spend time with people who are anxious, needy, and self-conscious to the point of being unnatural. 

The hungry don't get fed. The ones who are not hungry get fed.

4 hours ago, Girzo said:

It probably depends on what you count as an approach, Leo probably counts everything, even saying hi and girl not giving a fuck at all, an interaction lasting 5 seconds, while someone claiming 20% success rate might be only counting as an approach situations which have turned into an interesting flirty conversation.

3% is the conversion rate I see everywhere repeating in business, sales and marketing. When I was doing ads it was typical for an ad to get that conversion when comparing sales with the number of people seeimg the ad, but counting only the people who had clicked on the ad the conversion would rise to 20-33%

I'm calculating my own success rate based on girls who are available. Counting girls who have a bf in the success rate doesn't make sense but at the same time a lot of girls say they have a bf to get rid of you, so it is fishy.

 

8 hours ago, Roy said:

Was this that same blonde?

Yes. Normally she would text me every 2-3 days. Since she cancelled our date (she would come to my place) she doesn't next me any more. When I ask her I get the feeling she doesn't want to see me any more she says "that is not true, I'm just busy", which I know is not true. She has 2 free days per week.

12 hours ago, Preety_India said:

 

I think you're being excessively attached and dependent.

Heal yourself. You'll always face this problem if you don't heal your void 

Girls can't be your permanent source of joy and when girls sense that, they'll most likely not want to fill those shoes for you. They'll walk away because they don't want the job of being a love supply for you.

You're starting things on the wrong foot.

 

 

Don't you have the same problem though? I remember that you made a topic about a guy flaking on you. The thing is that this problem that we have is not easy to fix. I already know what m problem is. I just don't know how to fix it.

 

[StarStruck]

8 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@StarStruck Are you disociative in all social relationships?

It depends on my mood but usually yes.

Quote

Do you trust people around you? Do you think your circle of friends is a safe space and that it makes you feel good, or would you say it is rather boring or toxic?

My default state is being reserved and shields up. I can get into high conscious moods but it always goes back to the default the next day. I think it is a lack of frame; not knowing what to feel or what to say. I'm doing some grounding exercises to connect to the body/emotions/feelings/sensations and that helps a lot to get a frame on things.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

 

 

 

Don't you have the same problem though? I remember that you made a topic about a guy flaking on you. The thing is that this problem that we have is not easy to fix. I already know what m problem is. I just don't know how to fix it.

 

No. I don't remember approaching a guy in my life ever. So i don't remember being flaked. Maybe it was some other user.

But I was just wondering about your issue.

Consider this possibility -

Maybe the girls simply give their number to you to avoid you in the moment and not because they're genuinely attracted to you. I remember Leo saying this once where a girl giving her number is not the ultimate deal, a lot of them do that to avoid the guy eventually. Maybe they already have the plan to flake on you and they wait till the last moment. This means that enough attraction is not being built. 

It could be that you are always in a hurry to set up date without giving the girl adequate time to decide whether she should turn up. Maybe you immediately close the deal right after a few conversations. A a few preliminary conversations are not enough for the female brain to make a quick decision. She might feel unsure and insecure. Maybe spend more time texting them so they get to know you better. Build some chemistry, talk a lot. After many conversations over days, you develop a rapport with the girl and now you snugly fit into her comfort zone and she would be more likely to want to show up to a date. It could be that your lack of communication makes her feel like you're still a stranger and then she is not able to make up her mind and ends up flaking on you at the last minute. If this is the case, then consider allowing more time before deciding to meet directly.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Lucas-fgm That gives me so much hope. I am southern European but i live in Belgium.

I have not interacted much with local girls outside of pragmatic conversations since my circle is international since i study in an international university. Plus, locals are quite cold. I had a brazilian girl find me somewhat attractive though  so i guess anything can happen.

Hopefully if i start hitting on locals me being southern european will give me an edge on top of having some decent social skills. Belgian guys are very lame (like 80 percent of them). If you talk to them first, be expressive, make jokes, smile a lot, playfuly tease and touch and act self grouned you will easily be top 20 percent of guys. Maybe even 10 percent.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

No. I don't remember approaching a guy in my life ever. So i don't remember being flaked. Maybe it was some other user.

But I was just wondering about your issue.

Consider this possibility -

Maybe the girls simply give their number to you to avoid you in the moment and not because they're genuinely attracted to you. I remember Leo saying this once where a girl giving her number is not the ultimate deal, a lot of them do that to avoid the guy eventually. Maybe they already have the plan to flake on you and they wait till the last moment. This means that enough attraction is not being built. 

It could be that you are always in a hurry to set up date without giving the girl adequate time to decide whether she should turn up. Maybe you immediately close the deal right after a few conversations. A a few preliminary conversations are not enough for the female brain to make a quick decision. She might feel unsure and insecure. Maybe spend more time texting them so they get to know you better. Build some chemistry, talk a lot. After many conversations over days, you develop a rapport with the girl and now you snugly fit into her comfort zone and she would be more likely to want to show up to a date. It could be that your lack of communication makes her feel like you're still a stranger and then she is not able to make up her mind and ends up flaking on you at the last minute. If this is the case, then consider allowing more time before deciding to meet directly.

 

Building rapport with a girl for several days over the phone before asking her out for a date or a hookup is a major waste of a guy’s time, particularly if his game is not advanced. In fact, the more he texts or says something before the date, the more of a chance he has of saying something that might turn her off too much.

Also, let’s not forget how many girls who are attention whores out there who just love to text or talk with a guy over phone without having any interest at all of ever wanting to meetup with him. I’ve made the mistake myself a number of times before where I’ve let girls like that just waste my time for days on the phone with multiple texts or phone calls to them, but meanwhile none of those girls had any real intention of ever meeting up with me.

Like Leo said on the forum before, right you get her number, the phone calling and texting should only start out being used to set up a date or hookup.

[Hulia]

@StarStruck May I give you one advise? I sometimes gave fake numbers too. Because it´s the easiest and fastest was to get rid of a guy, without long explanations. Well the easier way would be to cut a guy in the very beginning by the PU approch. But somehow you think: This guy looks nice. Let´s try again, maybe it will be ok this time. And then it´s getting creepy and boring, when the guy begins to utter some standard PU lines or puts exaggerated self-confidence, and the worst thing is when a stranger makes intimacy hints and tries to be sexy or something. And then I thought to myself: What did you expect, Hulia? That the guy sees you on the street and thinks: "Oh this girl looks like she is exactly the right one to speak about Hegel. I need to learn her!"?

My advice is: forget everything about sex and getting-laid-stuff at your 1st approach! Your main task at the 1st approach is to prove a girl, that you are not a perv doing PU but a normal guy like a classmate or a neighbor just accidently caught by her beauty. Talk about anything that has nothing to do with sex. It´s better that you give her a light insight in your ordinary normal life, if you shortly mentions a sister or a mother for example, or talk about your study or whotever - ordinary things, don´t try to be extravagant! At first approach you have to prove that you are not a perv! 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Hulia

[Roy]

@StarStruck that's frustrating I'm sorry. I would maybe hold back though from saying things like that because it can spoil the relationship. It may be that she has different expectations of how much you see each other while dating. Some people like a few times a week, others a few times a month. One of those compatibility things I mentioned a while ago. It's hard for the stars to align so to speak.

You are talking to and dating other girls right? That should ease and put things in perspective right. Don't commit too much to any one relationship unless it's clear you are both going that way and you've talked about it.

If it makes you feel any better I've had like 12/14 girls flake, end things, or be confused about what they want in the past month and a half alone  it's tough stuff but when you find that right connection holy shit is it worth it.

 

[Striving for more]

10 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Also, let’s not forget how many girls who are attention whores out there who just love to text or talk with a guy over phone without having any interest at all of ever wanting to meetup with him. I’ve made the mistake myself a number of times before where I’ve let girls like that just waste my time for days on the phone with multiple texts or phone calls to them, but meanwhile none of those girls had any real intention of ever meeting up with me.

These girls need to read Seneca.

Avoid people who don't respect time.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Striving for more

[Preety_India]

11 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Building rapport with a girl for several days over the phone before asking her out for a date or a hookup is a major waste of a guy’s time, particularly if his game is not advanced. In fact, the more he texts or says something before the date, the more of a chance he has of saying something that might turn her off too much.

Also, let’s not forget how many girls who are attention whores out there who just love to text or talk with a guy over phone without having any interest at all of ever wanting to meetup with him. I’ve made the mistake myself a number of times before where I’ve let girls like that just waste my time for days on the phone with multiple texts or phone calls to them, but meanwhile none of those girls had any real intention of ever meeting up with me.

Like Leo said on the forum before, right you get her number, the phone calling and texting should only start out being used to set up a date or hookup.

I don't agree with you. This goes against female psychology. I can't give you a lengthy explanation because I'm in a hurry right now ( maybe some other day). 

But what I want to say in short is that women need to get to know the guy better before they can go meet a guy who is a rando stranger that dropped his number. I don't think women make decisions on a whim. There are a thousand thoughts running through a woman's mind when she is thinking about whether to accept or reject.

You're completely downplaying the challenges a woman faces in decision making. 

I understand your issues where you feel like the woman is stringing you along and I admit that it's a horrible and frustrating experience yet it is extremely naive to expect a woman to not want a connection with you before taking things to the next level.

Women don't rapidly get intimate, it's just not female nature. We are slow creatures who need time and attention to get accustomed to things. Women are very sensual and everything for a woman is not all about sex.

Women are emotional creatures. You're selectively using @Leo Gura 's dating advice to fit your goals and plans.. it's not just about you. You aren't dating plastic doll. You're dating a real human being. Remember Leo always talks about EMOTIONAL STIMULATION. You have completely glossed over it because it obviously needs hard work that you don't want to put in.

If you simply want sex, you need to find women who sleep with any random stranger all the time, which I highly doubt because I can only imagine the high risk she is exposing herself to where she doesn't even know the guy and has sex with him, STDs, rape , the list goes on and on.

But most women I have interacted with are level headed and would want to get to know a guy well enough before engaging in a relationship with them.

Also you need to create some Emotional attraction and emotional stimulation if you want fast results. Because women simply do not walk to a guy's bedroom just because he is a guy. That would be considered a very desperate move for a woman. Women themselves stay away from such desperate behaviour and detest such desperation in other women and men..

Every woman wants a respectful relationship where she feels valued and she feels that the guy dating her is not too desperate.

Being desperate with a woman gives her only ONE SIGNAL and that signal is a loud flag that screams - FUCKBOY.

So most women immediately flake or move away from the illness called fuckboy because they don't want to be infected by it. There is no value or respect or dignity or anything in being around a fuckboy because it makes the woman feel emotionally deprived and stunted. It makes her ill with guilt and regret. She doesn't want this deal. Unless it's a mutually agreed upon FWB or friends with benefits. But most women who want a healthy relationship just avoid the fuckboys like the plague. That's their greatest fear in dating men, their greatest regret. 

Compare it to something like men dating a golddigger. Most men would be extremely regretful and disgusted knowing that they are dating a golddigger, if they are high value guys, they are extremely scared of attracting such women, because that's the last thing they want. Similarly a fuckboy is the last thing a woman who considers herself valuable wants. She just hates dating men who belong to that box.

Like I said a lot of what you're saying goes against female psychology.

Don't peg a woman so cheap. 

Women want high value relationships, not simply sleeping with any dude who finds them attractive. She wants to know why she should be dating you and not some other guy 

Give her a reason to want you and desire you.. stand to her standards. Pretty sure most women have basic standards. They don't have a laundry list. 

So it's kinda easy to pass those standards with minimal effort.

All you need to do is give up your limiting beliefs, understand female psychology and what women are attracted to, build Emotional attraction and emotional stimulation and I'm sure some woman will value the time you gave to her 

 

From your past posts, you said multiple times that you would open conversations with women by talking about porn. It's an absolute no no 

It shows you have zero knowledge about female psychology.

Before you begin your journey to dating women, at least try to understand women , that will help.