Pickup is leading to frustration

[StarStruck]

I made huge progress. Thanks to pickup, I don't have approach anxiety. Now I'm a much better conversationalist, I know how to flirt, be light hearted, and know how to lead and I can basically get numbers all the time.

The problem is that girls give their numbers, agree on a coffee date on the spot and some how they change their mind and just bail on me. It is NOT that they get pushed into giving their numbers. I always approach them in crowd places and the vibe is just spot on. I'm doing as good as those pickup artists on youtube.

There was only one success that I had. I did date a very cute blonde girl that I liked very much:

She was exactly what I wanted in terms of personality and looks. It was going great. She took contact with me for a third date (she proposed she would visit my home) and cancelled it because she was sick. She rescheduled it again but she had a job interview. Afterwards I got frustrated and ask her for next week and now her excuses are that she is busy, although she only works 35 hours and schools are closed. I confronted her and said "I get the feeling you don't want to meet any more" and she said "that is not true, I'm just busy". I can get so mad about this because she tells me there is nothing wrong but I can clearly see she is less invested in the relationship.

So I got frustrated and approached some girls yesterday, I got two numbers and both of them bailed on me for a coffee date although the vibe was 10/10. I did everything by the book. The thing is that I do get small successes with pickup but the cost/benefit ratio is way off. I'm starting to think, is it my appearance? I look to other guys who walk around with hot girls and I can tell it is not my appearance.

Is this amount of flaking and this amount of failure normal? I'm starting to doubt about my pickup journey.

Edited July 11, 2021 by StarStruck

[Gabith]

Read or re-read Models by Mark Manson

You don't have to put hopes or investement in a girl because it tell that your need something, it comes from a place of neediness.

If you just meet girls in a place of non-neediness and you let just happening what must happens without being frustrated, trying to act different / impress, you'll eventually have more results and you'll stay in a good state of emotions.

If the girl really want to see you again, it will happens, you don't have to send them messages or tell her you feel she don't want to meet because it will turn her off

I think the main point is non-neediness and you'll be alright , if u see a girl and she's mean to be in your life, she will. If not, she will not  and that's totally okay

 

I'm new to this because I'm needy myself, but this book was a reveleation and now I understand 100% that I have to work on me and stop caring if a girl will have interest in me or not. I put standards because I know what I want and don't want anymore, I'm working on loving myself more and being authentic, particularly with girls that i'm attracted to

Edited July 11, 2021 by Gabith

[mamad]

39 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I made huge progress. Thanks to pickup, I don't have approach anxiety. Now I'm a much better conversationalist, I know how to flirt, be light hearted, and know how to lead and I can basically get numbers all the time.

The problem is that girls give their numbers, agree on a coffee date on the spot and some how they change their mind and just bail on me. It is NOT that they get pushed into giving their numbers. I always approach them in crowd places and the vibe is just spot on. I'm doing as good as those pickup artists on youtube.

There was only one success that I had. I did date a very cute blonde girl that I liked very much:

She was exactly what I wanted in terms of personality and looks. It was going great. She took contact with me for a third date (she proposed she would visit my home) and cancelled it because she was sick. She rescheduled it again but she had a job interview. Afterwards I got frustrated and ask her for next week and now her excuses are that she is busy, although she only works 35 hours and schools are closed. I confronted her and said "I get the feeling you don't want to meet any more" and she said "that is not true, I'm just busy". I can get so mad about this because she tells me there is nothing wrong but I can clearly see she is less invested in the relationship.

So I got frustrated and approached some girls yesterday, I got two numbers and both of them bailed on me for a coffee date although the vibe was 10/10. I did everything by the book. The thing is that I do get small successes with pickup but the cost/benefit ratio is way off. I'm starting to think, is it my appearance? I look to other guys who walk around with hot girls and I can tell it is not my appearance.

Is this amount of flaking and this amount of failure normal? I'm starting to doubt about my pickup journey.

watch this and you get the real perspective about day game.

when I hit the first plateau in pickup this video saved me. I have found Alex the highest in spiral dynamic among pua community.

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by mamad

[universe]

If you want to succeed with this you will need to be able to tolerate frustration several magnitudes higher than what you have encountered so far.

The two are married together. In all areas of your life.

 

Get professional consultation if you can afford it.

[StarStruck]

3 hours ago, universe said:

If you want to succeed with this you will need to be able to tolerate frustration several magnitudes higher than what you have encountered so far.

The two are married together. In all areas of your life.

 

Get professional consultation if you can afford it.

I'm already going to therapy once a week.

3 hours ago, mamad said:

watch this and you get the real perspective about day game.

when I hit the first plateau in pickup this video saved me. I have found Alex the highest in spiral dynamic among pua community.

 

I watched the whole video. I will definitely try it tomorrow.

3 hours ago, Gabith said:

Read or re-read Models by Mark Manson

You don't have to put hopes or investement in a girl because it tell that your need something, it comes from a place of neediness.

If you just meet girls in a place of non-neediness and you let just happening what must happens without being frustrated, trying to act different / impress, you'll eventually have more results and you'll stay in a good state of emotions.

If the girl really want to see you again, it will happens, you don't have to send them messages or tell her you feel she don't want to meet because it will turn her off

I think the main point is non-neediness and you'll be alright , if u see a girl and she's mean to be in your life, she will. If not, she will not  and that's totally okay

 

I'm new to this because I'm needy myself, but this book was a reveleation and now I understand 100% that I have to work on me and stop caring if a girl will have interest in me or not. I put standards because I know what I want and don't want anymore, I'm working on loving myself more and being authentic, particularly with girls that i'm attracted to

I read that book a while back. I remember it made an impact on me so it might do me good to reread it. The thing is that I kind of given up. Perhaps for me it is good to just give up and surrender and accept it just doesn't work out. I did everything by the book and it just doesn't work out. It is not meant to be. I'm kind of heart broken by that girl that doesn't want to meet up any more. I don't want other girls. I just want her but she is "busy" and obviously I'm not a high priority for her.

[Roy]

4 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Is this amount of flaking and this amount of failure normal? I'm starting to doubt about my pickup journey.

This is just normal. Unless you are clearly a supermodel/millionaire that is way higher value than the people you're meeting, it's just common sense that you are only going to be compatible for a relationship with like 1/10 people you meet, not even. Values have to be in the same ballpark, goals have to go in the same direction, personalities need chemistry, lifestyles and time off have to intertwine.

That's a lot of shit that has to go right to even have a chance at a decent long term relationship, past just meeting and having sex a few times.

If you are strictly after sex and short term flings just go to a bar or club any night of the week. I guarantee you could pull a different girl at least once a week.

Depends what you are after though. You need to go to the places you'll find exactly what you're looking for. Not just completely random approaches and expecting things to fall into what you want.

[aurum]

@StarStruck

If you are having good interactions are girls are continually flaking you, then I'd say it's time to start looking for a deeper root cause.

I'd suggest to you that your problem is the entire environment / context in which you are meeting these girls. PUA basically turns you into the equivalent of a dating telemarketer, running up to random girl and then trying to close the "deal" in a couple minutes.

Even if you are the world's best telemarketer, you are going to get hung up on tons of times. And even the best cold approach PUAs get tons of flakes and rejections.

In the PUA community, this is basically addressed by saying "do more approaches bro, it's a number's game bro, try harder bro". But that fails to address that what they're doing isn't actually that effective.

I would encourage you instead to start thinking about setting up your life in such a way so that you don't have to be a dating telemarketer. But instead, you can be that person that people naturally gravitate towards.

I'm also not telling you to give up cold approach or to quit PUA. I'm just telling you to start looking at the bigger picture. Ask better questions. Instead of asking "how can I cold approach better?", maybe ask "how can I create a situation where people are approaching me?". Or "how can I build deep relationships?". That's going to put you on a much different path.

[LastThursday]

8 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I made huge progress. Thanks to pickup,

Now make huge progress without pickup. To paraphrase @aurum change up your strategy: level up.

[Nahm]

What we want and do not doubt does appear just as she did, just as you’d hoped, because of your alignment, your feeling good if you will. But when we attempt to turn what we want into what we need… we have returned to doubt. 

Doubts are just thoughts that come & go, which starve and die without your attention. You are the bringer of fun which never comes & goes, and you know it, and that is very attractive. 

[StarStruck]

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

What we want and do not doubt does appear just as she did, just as you’d hoped, because of your alignment, your feeling good if you will. But when we attempt to turn what we want into what we need… we have returned to doubt. 

Doubts are just thoughts that come & go, which starve and die without your attention. You are the bringer of fun which never comes & goes, and you know it, and that is very attractive. 

I can never disagree with you.

15 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Now make huge progress without pickup. To paraphrase @aurum change up your strategy: level up.

I'm reading one book a day. I'm fired up. But at the same time the pain is just unbearable. I loved this girl and everything was going ok. She was coming to my house. And she just changed her mind and now she is giving me the silent treatment, not taking contact with me for days while previously she would always text me something every 3 days.

19 hours ago, Roy said:

This is just normal. Unless you are clearly a supermodel/millionaire that is way higher value than the people you're meeting, it's just common sense that you are only going to be compatible for a relationship with like 1/10 people you meet, not even. Values have to be in the same ballpark, goals have to go in the same direction, personalities need chemistry, lifestyles and time off have to intertwine.

That's a lot of shit that has to go right to even have a chance at a decent long term relationship, past just meeting and having sex a few times.

If you are strictly after sex and short term flings just go to a bar or club any night of the week. I guarantee you could pull a different girl at least once a week.

Depends what you are after though. You need to go to the places you'll find exactly what you're looking for. Not just completely random approaches and expecting things to fall into what you want.

Bars/clubs are closed. Only cafes are open but I don't have the friends to go out to cafes. I'm destined to day game. 

[StarStruck]

19 hours ago, aurum said:

@StarStruck

If you are having good interactions are girls are continually flaking you, then I'd say it's time to start looking for a deeper root cause.

I'd suggest to you that your problem is the entire environment / context in which you are meeting these girls. PUA basically turns you into the equivalent of a dating telemarketer, running up to random girl and then trying to close the "deal" in a couple minutes.

Even if you are the world's best telemarketer, you are going to get hung up on tons of times. And even the best cold approach PUAs get tons of flakes and rejections.

In the PUA community, this is basically addressed by saying "do more approaches bro, it's a number's game bro, try harder bro". But that fails to address that what they're doing isn't actually that effective.

I would encourage you instead to start thinking about setting up your life in such a way so that you don't have to be a dating telemarketer. But instead, you can be that person that people naturally gravitate towards.

I'm also not telling you to give up cold approach or to quit PUA. I'm just telling you to start looking at the bigger picture. Ask better questions. Instead of asking "how can I cold approach better?", maybe ask "how can I create a situation where people are approaching me?". Or "how can I build deep relationships?". That's going to put you on a much different path.

That is what I'm doing right now. I'm focusing on trauma healing and forgiving people from my past so that I can become a lighter person. The thing is that I just don't have the life style for people to gravitate towards me. I work from home and the only parts of the day I come outside where I see people is in the super market and in the gym. I was hoping to make a social circle of friends but it isn't working.

[Snuitje]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

I'm reading one book a day. I'm fired up. But at the same time the pain is just unbearable. I loved this girl and everything was going ok. She was coming to my house. And she just changed her mind and now she is giving me the silent treatment, not taking contact with me for days while previously she would always text me something every 3 days.

Two dates and you love her? You barely know the tip of the iceberg. I think you need to be less attached to girls who may seem like a perfect deal.

I've noticed you think the vibe was 10/10 and everything is great, but that's all your perception. You don't know how it was. This is again attachement. I think you grow a lot in pickup if you stop judging these things. If they bail, they bail, if they ignore you, that's okay as well. If they cancel, who cares?

You are not destined for day game, unless you choose to. That's a limiting belief.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Snuitje

[Leo Gura]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:30 AM, StarStruck said:

Is this amount of flaking and this amount of failure normal?

Yes!

Flake rate is typically very high. Which is why PUAs tend to push for same night lays.

You should also get in the habit of screening. Screen for boyfriends, screen her desire to date.

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I'm reading one book a day. I'm fired up. But at the same time the pain is just unbearable. I loved this girl and everything was going ok. She was coming to my house. And she just changed her mind and now she is giving me the silent treatment, not taking contact with me for days while previously she would always text me something every 3 days.

Good, developing yourself is more important than finding the "one". Keep that focus.

I do feel your pain, been there done that (many times). From my experience what keeps the pain going is how much thinking time and importance you attach to the girl. You do have a choice here, but you are fighting hormones so it's difficult.

The infatuation stage is very natural, it's how we attach to someone and start a relationship, i.e. infatuation follows attraction. And we can get stuck there if the relationship doesn't progress and especially if you're left hanging. Infatuation also warps reality: she really isn't that wonderful, she's just a person like any other. Give yourself a deadline, a date in the calendar by which time you consciously choose to move on. There are always more girls to get to know.

[StarStruck]

18 hours ago, Snuitje said:

Two dates and you love her? You barely know the tip of the iceberg. I think you need to be less attached to girls who may seem like a perfect deal.

I've noticed you think the vibe was 10/10 and everything is great, but that's all your perception. You don't know how it was. This is again attachement. I think you grow a lot in pickup if you stop judging these things. If they bail, they bail, if they ignore you, that's okay as well. If they cancel, who cares?

You are not destined for day game, unless you choose to. That's a limiting belief.

I agree but sometimes the heart doesn't listen to the brain.

17 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Good, developing yourself is more important than finding the "one". Keep that focus.

I do feel your pain, been there done that (many times). From my experience what keeps the pain going is how much thinking time and importance you attach to the girl. You do have a choice here, but you are fighting hormones so it's difficult.

The infatuation stage is very natural, it's how we attach to someone and start a relationship, i.e. infatuation follows attraction. And we can get stuck there if the relationship doesn't progress and especially if you're left hanging. Infatuation also warps reality: she really isn't that wonderful, she's just a person like any other. Give yourself a deadline, a date in the calendar by which time you consciously choose to move on. There are always more girls to get to know.

I'm so drunk with love that I can't think straight. Snuitje made some good points and I would give the same advice to another person but the reality is this: the more I resist the heart break the more it hurts, so for now I just let it be and meditate on the pain (but not attach to the pain).

I never had a real girlfriend. That is the real problem and I'm really desperate to get one. I wish I could just drop that need and just focus on my LP but my heart (where the inner wisdom is) is trying to teach me something. Something I don't understand.

The more I move towards dating girls, the more pain I encounter. The pain is a teacher that teaches me to not depend on others, and that love is perhaps not for me.

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes!

Flake rate is typically very high. Which is why PUAs tend to push for same night lays.

You should also get in the habit of screening. Screen for boyfriends, screen her desire to date.

What I read is this.. if this logistics are right:

Beginner: 10% success rate

Intermediate: 20-30% success rate

Expert: 40-50% success rate

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

What I read is this.. if this logistics are right:

Beginner: 10% success rate

Intermediate: 20-30% success rate

Expert: 40-50% success rate

WAY way lower.

And logistics are almost never right.

Realistically close rate is less than 1 in 100.

If you are approaching girls and hoping for a 1 in 10 close rate, you are out of your mind dog.

Typical sales close rates are 0.5-2%

[Iksander]

50% success rate. Fuck me. Not even Genghis Khan had that close rate mate 

[Snuitje]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

I never had a real girlfriend. That is the real problem and I'm really desperate to get one. I wish I could just drop that need and just focus on my LP but my heart (where the inner wisdom is) is trying to teach me something. Something I don't understand.

Why is never having a girlfiend so bad to you? Do you know how many people are in a relationship just so they can say: "But I'm in a relationship" These people are far from happy. I've seen it all around me. They poison eachother with pain and fear.

I think it's trying to teach you self-love. A girlfriend will come when you love yourself and when you're not desperate for one. The pain that you're feeling won't go away with a high closing rate.

[Peter Miklis]

54 minutes ago, Iksander said:

50% success rate. Fuck me. Not even Genghis Khan had that close rate mate 

My boy Genghis Khan didn't have close rate, more like rape rate? seemed to work for him back in the day

[StarStruck]

19 minutes ago, Snuitje said:

Why is never having a girlfiend so bad to you? Do you know how many people are in a relationship just so they can say: "But I'm in a relationship" These people are far from happy. I've seen it all around me. They poison eachother with pain and fear.

I think it's trying to teach you self-love. A girlfriend will come when you love yourself and when you're not desperate for one. The pain that you're feeling won't go away with a high closing rate.

It is hard to just sit and love myself. When I had her it was much easier to love myself. I felt on cloud 9. Perhaps I was too quick to like her but everything was going right. She agreed to visit my place and suddenly she canceled and is acting cold. I guess it was the sudden change of her behavior that got me. 

If I take a step back and look at what happened, I'm also glad that it happened. I got fired up and I realized I have to take even more action. The thing that is frustrating is that I'm already taking 90% more action than regular guys who are just lazy at get tinder dates or dates from their social circle.