Enlightenment: correct me if I am wrong

[okulele]

Here are my takes on Enlightenment. I'd be interested if you agree, or if there is something that you see differently.

 

Enlightenment is realizing what THIS is. What YOU are. Without doubt, without theory - directly.

• So what is THIS. What are YOU? - Infinite Imagination. Without limits, without "outside", without a self.
• How does it happen that Enlightenment happens? - Just like that. Just as there come moments, where Reality is not known, in the same way there come moments where Reality is known. The second is what we call an experience/state of Enlightenment. 
• Can a person "give" another Enlightenment? - Yes and no. No, because in the end it will play out in your own Consiousness and you will realize that you are the only one that exists. Yes, because relatively speaking, there are beings, who can give it to you, similiary how meditation or psychedelics can give it to you.
• If you have Enlightenment once, is it forever? - No. You will again come back into states, where the overwhelming majority of You/Consciousness has no idea, what the Truth is.

[Bluff]

54 minutes ago, okulele said:

So what is THIS. What are YOU?

Stop using any words for it. Be open for whatever it turns out to be. 

56 minutes ago, okulele said:

How does it happen that Enlightenment happens? - Just like that. Just as there come moments, where Reality is not known, in the same way there come moments where Reality is known. The second is what we call an experience/state of Enlightenment. 

Reality is always known. 

Enlightenment is not an experience. When the mind collapses, dissolves, opens to its source. You might call this enlightenment. 

1 hour ago, okulele said:

Can a person "give" another Enlightenment?

1 hour ago, okulele said:

If you have Enlightenment once, is it forever?

You cannot give enlightenment nor have it. The real you alway were and will be enlightened, since the enlightened being of conciousness is all there is. 

Counsciousness is experiencing itself through the tunnel of the mind and by that it is limiting its experience. 

[okulele]

1 hour ago, Bluff said:

Stop using any words for it. Be open for whatever it turns out to be. 

2 hours ago, okulele said:

We agree here.

1 hour ago, Bluff said:

Reality is always known. 

Enlightenment is not an experience. When the mind collapses, dissolves, opens to its source. You might call this enlightenment. 

Yes Reality is always known, but that knowledge is veiled in some states, while in others it's crystal clear.

That's what I'm saying - When the mind collapses, dissolves, opens to its source. - that's enlightenment. Otherwise it's not.

1 hour ago, Bluff said:

You cannot give enlightenment nor have it. The real you alway were and will be enlightened, since the enlightened being of conciousness is all there is. 

 

the enlightened being of conciousness is all there is - sure, but again, it is veiled in some states. It is only recognized when, as you said, the mind collapses.

1 hour ago, Bluff said:

Counsciousness is experiencing itself through the tunnel of the mind and by that it is limiting its experience. 

We agree here.

[allislove]

@okulele

I agree on what you shared... wouldn't call it state of Enlightenment though. The idea of states encourages an apparent separation so to speak. Once you are enlightened everything is, there are no states. May we call it just forgetting who you are (pretending what you are not) & remembering... the better pointer imho.

[okulele]

@allislove Yes, thanks for the response. Glad we are on the same page  

[allislove]

@okulele ?

[Javfly33]

Enlightment is realizing you are not real, i just created you with my imagination. I AM creating this screen, and the ego is hallucinating the story your message came from an internet Server.

The truth is, This iS What Is Real. EVERYTHING else is ego.

I AM God. Lets change chapters of "self doubt" please. Time to create Joy, Power and Love.

[okulele]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Enlightment is realizing you are not real, i just created you with my imagination. I AM creating this screen, and the ego is hallucinating the story your message came from an internet Server.

 

Agreed, but I could say the same - YOU are not real from this perspective, and I just created you. (might be what you had in mind also)

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

The truth is, This iS What Is Real. EVERYTHING else is ego.

 

Sure, that's one way to look at it. At other times you will however exprience that there is no such thing as ego, at other times still you will experience that you are a person in a world. But I do get what you mean.

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

I AM God. Lets change chapters of "self doubt" please. Time to create Joy, Power and Love.

Let's  

Edited July 11, 2021 by okulele

[Gabith]

Wow this shit is so deep

I begin to see more clear

[Leo Gura]

14 hours ago, okulele said:

Here are my takes on Enlightenment. I'd be interested if you agree, or if there is something that you see differently.

 

Enlightenment is realizing what THIS is. What YOU are. Without doubt, without theory - directly.

• So what is THIS. What are YOU? - Infinite Imagination. Without limits, without "outside", without a self.
• How does it happen that Enlightenment happens? - Just like that. Just as there come moments, where Reality is not known, in the same way there come moments where Reality is known. The second is what we call an experience/state of Enlightenment. 
• Can a person "give" another Enlightenment? - Yes and no. No, because in the end it will play out in your own Consiousness and you will realize that you are the only one that exists. Yes, because relatively speaking, there are beings, who can give it to you, similiary how meditation or psychedelics can give it to you.
• If you have Enlightenment once, is it forever? - No. You will again come back into states, where the overwhelming majority of You/Consciousness has no idea, what the Truth is.

Pretty much.

Enlightenment is realizing you are God dreaming a world and all other beings.

[okulele]

@Gabith Cool!

@Leo Gura Yeah, your definition matches mine. Glad to be in agreement.

[ivankiss]

Enlightenment is not just a realization.

It's far more, and also far beyond my ability to put it into words.

[okulele]

@ivankiss I agree that there is much more than realization, but I defined Enlightenment as strictly realization. Can you say more about what you mean?

Edited July 12, 2021 by okulele

[ivankiss]

@okulele One of the ways I'd put it...

To me; enlightenment is a total disintegration of reality as a whole. Into pure Light.

No time and no space for a realization to occur. No senses, no feedback. Nothing.

All is white.

All is Light.

[The Buddha]

It's realising who is the I which is making and answering this questions. It is an ilumination of who is the one that wants to awake. This then goes as deep as the beingness/isness ground. After that, something misterious must happen that comes to understand who is the one that is or is not, aka the real You. It has less to do with all what u talk about, I mean it's all absolutely true but that's not gonna give you enlightenment, it may make u understand a bit how an awake being is, but that's all. From recognising this I in everything you do, and that mysterious happening. all this endless word definition will be crystal clear but not the other way arround. Just be always aware that you are, to be in the beingness/isness ground, are you aware/concious that you are right here and now? Then, who am I that is right here and now?

[VeganAwake]

Its freedom from identification as the individual that believes it needs to find something or get somewhere.

A disentangling from the socially conditioned matrix of mind known as ME.

[okulele]

18 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@okulele One of the ways I'd put it...

To me; enlightenment is a total disintegration of reality as a whole. Into pure Light.

No time and no space for a realization to occur. No senses, no feedback. Nothing.

All is white.

All is Light.

Cool, I hear you.

 

18 hours ago, The Buddha said:

After that, something misterious must happen that comes to understand who is the one that is or is not, aka the real You.

Agreed, that's what I mean.

18 hours ago, The Buddha said:

It has less to do with all what u talk about, I mean it's all absolutely true but that's not gonna give you enlightenment, it may make u understand a bit how an awake being is, but that's all.

Well, the words are not absolutely true, but I agree. Only by realizing you realize  

 

18 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Its freedom from identification as the individual that believes it needs to find something or get somewhere.

A disentangling from the socially conditioned matrix of mind known as ME.

Agreed.

[Bluff]

On 11.7.2021 at 1:48 PM, okulele said:

That's what I'm saying - When the mind collapses, dissolves, opens to its source. - that's enlightenment. Otherwise it's not.

When there is only source it is clear, that this was and is always the case. We might say that the process of understanding and aligning to that fact may be called enlightenment. 

 

On 11.7.2021 at 1:48 PM, okulele said:

the enlightened being of conciousness is all there is - sure, but again, it is veiled in some states. It is only recognized when, as you said, the mind collapses.

Before mind knows it's source, yes you might say that there is some kind of veil. But after the mind collapsed into source it realises that there really never was a veil. There was always only conciousness knowing itself

[okulele]

2 hours ago, Bluff said:

When there is only source it is clear, that this was and is always the case. We might say that the process of understanding and aligning to that fact may be called enlightenment. 

 

Yes.

2 hours ago, Bluff said:

Before mind knows it's source, yes you might say that there is some kind of veil. But after the mind collapsed into source it realises that there really never was a veil. There was always only conciousness knowing itself

Yeah, that's the joke