"DHV (demonstration of higher value)" versus "Natural game"

[Karmadhi]

I notice two big trends in the PUA community. The first is demonstration of higher value which is popular with Mystery Method and John Anthony Lifestyle. It's premise is that you convey higher value to the girl by showing elements of yourself. An example would be if you are a DJ (popular with john anthony), or you own a company, you travel a lot, are good at weightlifting etc. This is done in a way that conveys value and makes you seem as a cool high value guy in her eyes.

"Natural game" is often popularized by RSD Tyler and it is basically about self-amusement and just being fun and playful. It is not about conveying yourself as a cool high value guy in terms of tangible things but more on a "proving fun and humour". 

A simple example would be conveying you do a lot of cool shit and are an important person versus making jokes and being playful and goofy. 

Which one do you think is better, especially for beginners?

This is what i mean.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

DHV comes off as too fake and gamey.

Be fun and playful. Don't try to impress. And then on top of that, you should already be a cool and interesting guy by building out a cool and interesting life.

DHV should be a natural consequence of your yearly self-actualizing work. Once you got it, you don't need to try to impress girls with it. It will naturally reveal itself as she starts asking about your life.

Like, if a girl starts asking me what I do, if I just talk about it authentically, I will come off as very high value. She will be like, "I thought this guy is just playful and fun, but he's also got an amazing life! This is amazing. I want his dick right now!"

If anything, you could even DLV. Purposefully play down your value by telling her you work at Walmart sucking customer's dicks. This will come off much better than trying to impress her that you're a DJ.

"Girl... you think you want to be with some hotshot DJ, but I know what you really want. You want to marry a guy who works at Walmart sucking customer's dicks for minimum wage. I bet you didn't even know Walmart had such a position. Well, they do and today's your lucky day."

Humor is the fastest way into a woman's pants.

P.S. If you actually work at Walmart, then that strategy will not work so well. It works better the higher value your naturally are. If you were a DJ or a doctor, that line would work amazing.

[Cireeric]

Leo already said it very well. I think RSD is also about showing high value, but in a more subtle way. You showing high value by just having fun, by not needing to prove anything and not needing validation and being self-fullfilled. And that is done by self-actualization work and fullfilling your needs, caring for yourself.

[Karmadhi]

Thank you very much for your replies. Very in detail and useful 

[Preety_India]

@Karmadhi  just adding  my opinion as a woman.(of course not every woman's opinion is the same)

I think I'm never impressed with a guy showing his high value. I know you must be giggling thinking that I'm lying, but seriously I really don't like guys who do that because it screams as "show off" and fakey. I was always repelled by such men because the immediate thought process in my mind , maybe this guy is too full of himself or that he won't value me enough. It gives me a "player" vibe you know. 

I'd rather go with the natural and playful because he makes his character the center of my attention and not his guy stuff like bikes, weightlifting that I'm seriously not interested in peeping into. Because that's not my girly stuff. He is better off boasting to his friends.

Now If he is doing a stable job even if it's boring or uncool that's fine because at least I don't have to worry about financial insecurity.

Let's say I'm not even thinking long term and a high shot guy approaches me , would I be jumping up and down to be with him because he is popular like Elvis Presley? Umm no. Because he is still boasting and his value in terms of money won't matter to me 

Because I'm not that stage Orange you know what I mean.

So if he is funny and sweet and friendly and a bit Fierce and protective that would be extremely attractive because I can spend good moments with time.

I think value means different things to different people.

So I will judge the guy's value in my eyes on how he makes me feel in his company rather than his achievements in life.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Preety_India Yeah makes sense, i only asked because Mystery Method and John Anthony lifestyle promote DHV a lot and those two have like 300 and 1300 laycounts specifically. Insane numbers, so i thought maybe DHV work better than the RSD stuff since i doubt RSD have such insane high laycounts. Your and Leo's arguments make sense to me.

[subterfuge]

@Karmadhi

I'm not even sure either mystery or jmulv  (john anthony) are much better than any other guy on the street tbh.

I mean, myseries infields were such a let down when I watched them in one of his venusian arts products. It just looked like he was boring teh girls to death with his DHV stories and he seemed to come off as very usual. Robotic. Constantly saying odd things lol. It looked like he basically madee very hard work of it to eventually get a number of a kiss close with a woman older and not as good looking as him! (at the time he was a fairy good looking, very tall dude!)

 

As for jmulv, i've heard his lay count is complete fiction. Apparently his ex business partner (sonny) exposed him to have been paying sugar babies and stuff to make it look like he was a slayer. I have serious doubts. His game seems less weird, BUT it barely looks like he's does anything in a set that the average guy on the street doesn't do. There's no attraction material at all? More like he opens girls, says they're cute, and then asks them back to his place. Looks like any success he might get is beacuse they happen to be into tall guys with blue eyes lol. I don't think he could ever 'convert' a girl from no to yes for example. (assuming that's possible)

Good question though. I often have all kinds of similar questions that come up when you consider how all of these apaprent experts can't seem to agree on anything lol

[Karmadhi]

@subterfuge They also claim RSD is full of shit too and some of its ex employees like  Todd V denounced a lot of their theories. This whole industry is full of BS so i do not really trust anyone blindly.

That is why i asked here because people here actually have integrity and do not bullshit, at least i hope so.

[KennedyCarter]

I had no idea guys be doing the most to get in the box hahaha

[Leo Gura]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:59 AM, Karmadhi said:

John Anthony lifestyle promote DHV a lot and those two have like 300 and 1300 laycounts specifically

John's lay count is high because the dude is a legit rapist and sociopath.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura When you are a sociopath it gives you a boost regardless of what you do. It is not that DHV game is for sociopath and "natural game" is for non sociopaths. Besides that a lot of PUAs have sociopathic tendencies to some extent. Anyway this is an old post that got clarified, idk why it got opened up again.

 

[JJfromSwitzerland]

On 8.7.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

@Preety_India Yeah makes sense, i only asked because Mystery Method and John Anthony lifestyle promote DHV a lot and those two have like 300 and 1300 laycounts specifically. Insane numbers, so i thought maybe DHV work better than the RSD stuff since i doubt RSD have such insane high laycounts. Your and Leo's arguments make sense to me.

Out of context but why the fuck would somebody wanna bang 1300 women?

It's not even fun and I guarantee this sex is often boring and not worthy. Your whole life is fucked up because all you do is looking for pussy??? 

[Karmadhi]

@JJfromSwitzerland I do not care about motives, i care about what works and what gives me results as long as it is obviously legal.

You cannot tell a starving man to do "ethical" business when he just needs some food to survive.

So regarding dating i am 100 percent pragmatic. If it works, it works. Dot. My only rule is not to hit on girls with partners or bf because i personally find it very lame but i see no issue with convincing her to sleep with you and plowing through her objections. If you have to do some white lies, so be it.

Girls dont think twice about ruthlessly stepping on you if it fits their agenda.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

@Knowledge Hoarder The whole industry seems a circus to me, bunch of scumbags calling other scumbags. I do not take anything they say with full trust, however they are helpful if you are clueless about this stuff i guess. 

You do not need to buy products, there is enough free shit as it is.