How come that girls can be ruthless against nice guys?

[bejapuskas]

@StarStruck  I mean if the girl is sexually open enough, you can be nice to her, you don't need to play all sorts of games. Just don't push her into having sex if she doesn't want it at the moment and show that you care about her pleasure the same way you care about yours. You are absolutely free to think "I would not date somebody if they wouldn't have sex with me." I also would not, that's a valid expectation, just don't expect it from people who don't wanna give you. I mean, of course there is room for growth, but at one point of development, it stops being about you and it starts being about other people either being up for what you want or not being up for. Don't judge yourself for wanting explicitly consensual wild intimate sex. Your sexuality is completely fine. 

I am curious about this playing with different paradigms, are you actually playing or is there still hurtness? I would love if you could give us more insight into that. I find that sometimes people are playing because they are still judging themselves or afraid of judgement.

[knakoo]

If you identify as a nice guy please watch this video :

 

[knakoo]

On 07/07/2021 at 7:12 PM, StarStruck said:

To defeat the enemy you have to understand their psychology

 

[Karmadhi]

@knakoo It is a good video however that is about being like overly nice and fake nice. We are talking about genouine niceness so when you are nice and kind because that is who you are, not to get sex. You should be nice and kind because that is who you are, not because it would get you girls. Personally i have no issues with being nice and kind and not getting extra points towards getting laid, it is an issue when being GENOUINE nice actually reduces your chances and you are forced to become an arrogant selfish dick. IMO you should not become an arrogant selfish dick if that is not who you are authentically just to get laid. Your realness is more important.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Karmadhi

[The0Self]

The masculine is the desire to experience the feminine. The feminine is the desire to be experienced by the masculine. When this doesn't go as planned, strife arises. And women want truly masculine men who aren't afraid to experience the feminine fully -- so-called nice guys are trying to get something from women, rather than purely giving them the love of being experienced by the masculine.

[bejapuskas]

I don't think it is the niceness that is a turn-off. It is just that so many of these nice guys are manipulative and they have some sort of expectation about what all girls want and they are doing that. That's so much worse than attentively listening to the individual's wants and needs, people have both of these different, even if they all are a part of one gender. "Niceness" can be very manipulative. Neediness is same, if you need something, it is like a part of your survival and if you need sex, you would even push for it and that's a huge turn-off. Often these "nice" guys have some sort of sexual shame and shadow in their sexual parts of their minds, so they might push for it but deny it. Wanting on the other hand is not bound by any obstacles, it can just wait for the right moment. Wanting is not a part of a violent agenda.

[Danioover9000]

   This video might help explain the problem and offer some solutions:

 

[Hulia]

Let´s take a real example from right here:

I am attracted to @Zeroguy

Is he nice or is he an asshole?

[something_else]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Also regarding the struggles of girls except the 3 i mentioned which can be easily avoided by dating normies over players (getting pumped and dumped, dumped for younger/hotter girls and abused) are there any others? Would be quite curious to know.

Every time you think of some silly theoretical question like this, ask yourself: will knowing some other people on the internet's opinion on this actually help me attract a girl.

You're addicted to these deep dives into theoretical ideas about dating. You need to stop letting your mind ramble on with all these silly theoretical ideas about how the typical woman acts. It's like trying to learn a martial art by reading someone else's descriptions of the moves online. It's dumb as fuck, and I know because I do it too and then realise I've wasted 30mins of my day reading shitty threads like this that end up offering me next to no value whatsoever.

I'm still too much of a pussy to approach as much as I'd like but dear god I can see immediately that you spend way too much time thinking about this and looking for other people's opinions on it online. There is some basic theory you can get from places like this that will help you, but incredibly specific questions like this are 90% your mind performing mental gymnastics and tricking you into thinking you're growing when you're just wasting time

[CultivateLove]

5 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

Can you give me some examples of this being the case 

How would I even do that? Find some celebrity example? I don't know them, and neither do you, how the f*ck would either of us really know?

I'm speaking strictly from personal experience and from what I've seen in real life with friends and family, and I've been blessed meet and make friends with some genuinely good hearted guys, who just happen to be in loving relationships.

The difference is though, they're not JUST "nice", because it just doesn't fucking cut it, just as "just" anything doesn't work.

Maybe you even have a totally different view of what "nice" is than me, it's pretty subjective.

 

[knakoo]

On 07/07/2021 at 9:56 PM, Etherial Cat said:

@Karmadhi I've watched probably up to 90 % of Leo's videos.

If you had to recommend one or a few of Leo's videos, which one(s) would you choose ?

Do you have other "spiritual teachers" to recommend ?

Personally I love this girl:

And this grandpa:

Sorry guys if that is off topic !

[Karmadhi]

@something_else

3 hours ago, something_else said:

will knowing some other people on the internet's opinion on this actually help me attract a girl.

This is not about attracting girls, Leo said "you do not know what girls struggles are" as if i am ignoring them, i just do not know what they are.

3 hours ago, something_else said:

It's dumb as fuck, and I know because I do it too and then realise I've wasted 30mins of my day reading shitty threads like this that end up offering me next to no value whatsoever.

People also use instagram which gives 0 value, people do stuff that gives no value in their lives all the time.

 

3 hours ago, something_else said:

tricking you into thinking you're growing when you're just wasting time

Understanding the struggles of others can be useful to know to become more holistic, this is not a matter of getting better with girls, it is a matter of feeling less like you were dealt the harder hand.

[knakoo]

8 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@knakoo It is a good video however that is about being like overly nice and fake nice. We are talking about genouine niceness so when you are nice and kind because that is who you are, not to get sex. You should be nice and kind because that is who you are, not because it would get you girls. Personally i have no issues with being nice and kind and not getting extra points towards getting laid, it is an issue when being GENOUINE nice actually reduces your chances and you are forced to become an arrogant selfish dick. IMO you should not become an arrogant selfish dick if that is not who you are authentically just to get laid. Your realness is more important.

Hum I always associated being nice as being a little bit fake, because it feels so bland. Not sure if someone truly in touch with his/her authentic self can be "nice". 

If a guy has regular thoughts like "I am a nice guy", I think starting to think "I am a kind man" could be helpful. Of course not taking all of the "I am ..." thoughts seriously is even better. 

[something_else]

9 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

This is not about attracting girls, Leo said "you do not know what girls struggles are" as if i am ignoring them, i just do not know what they are.

Yes it is, otherwise you wouldn't care enough to ask in the first place. Use some common sense, they're the physically weaker sex. Or imagine having unattractive traits as a woman, there's far less you can do about it that because many of those traits are inherent. There are also a whole host of stereotypes that generally affect women poorly in day to day life, they're definitely not all gone yet.

Quote

Understanding the struggles of others can be useful to know to become more holistic, this is not a matter of getting better with girls, it is a matter of feeling less like you were dealt the harder hand.

This is just some bullshit your mind concocted for you right now. I'm not just speaking about this specific question btw, it's the general impression I get from reading all of your posts is that you are way too theoretical. Though, I can see that posting these things here might be cathartic, so if that works for you then you do you. But what you're likely doing is just further reinforcing these random negative musings into your mind even though it makes you feel better

[bejapuskas]

11 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

This is not about attracting girls, Leo said "you do not know what girls struggles are" as if i am ignoring them, i just do not know what they are.

Not knowing what they are can still lead to hurting others. If you just assume somebody was not raped and you victim blame in front of them... Isn't that kinda not nice?

11 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

People also use instagram which gives 0 value, people do stuff that gives no value in their lives all the time.

This is actually an interesting topic, some people might have horrible self esteem issues and their life situation might be so bad and out of control that they simply have to escape somewhere and postpone the work for better times, sometimes addictions keep people alive. That's another way to look at it.

[Striving for more]

Isn't it obvious ...

Girls in today's society have a disproportionate amount of power and options compared to men, like remarkably disproportionate. 

Covid, social media & dating apps have made this phenomenon far far worse. 

Essentially girls are spoilt for choice ... Not just beautiful women but even a female 6, has far superior choice and social prowess than a male 7.5. 

Nice guys aren't good looking enough, high value enough, rich enough and especially aren't good looking enough. 

The dickheads are most likely good looking, or supremely high value in some other way + good looking enough beyond a minimum threshold. 

P.s : I am not complaining or playing victim or crying about this, I accept reality & basic market economics 100% ....

BUT, what is disturbing is the complete contempt & disregard many women actually have to "nice guys", "Incels", or guys they are unattracted to. The term "Incel" itself has a negative connotation & IMO is nearly similar (but obviously nowhere near as comparably extreme or damaging as) dating equivalent of N*****

It's one thing to reject but to do so with contempt shows that many of these women are just spoilt and have no empathy for all the struggling guys, who are struggling purely due to their genetic disadvantage, they try to overide that but are met with ridicule and discontempt. 

I recently swallowed the black pill .... It has it's flaws, but it gets a lot of stuff right I think. (I dunno challenge me I am open minded, minds always changing). 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Striving for more

[something_else]

25 minutes ago, Striving for more said:

Girls in today's society have a disproportionate amount of power and options compared to men, like remarkably disproportionate. 

Except from the fact that like 80% of the worlds leaders and wealthiest individuals are men, yea. Women have more inherent value, so life can be easier for them in some ways, but they pay for it in others that you simply also lack the empathy to be aware of.

Quote

Essentially girls are spoilt for choice ... Not just beautiful women but even a female 6, has far superior choice and social prowess than a male 7.5

Yea but her value could be stuck firmly at a 6, as a guy you have far more control over where you are on the scale but the cost of that is starting lower on average.

Quote

BUT, what is disturbing is the complete contempt & disregard many women actually have to "nice guys", "Incels", or guys they are unattracted to. The term "Incel" itself has a negative connotation & IMO is nearly similar (but obviously nowhere near as comparably extreme or damaging as) dating equivalent of N*****

This is literally in your head, it's painfully obvious you've just theorised this with no real world experience or read other people say it. There's a difference between a bitter incel and say, a normal guy who is just shy, or someone who has an unattractive face. Incels are legit dangerous, the other two there are not. As long as you're not creepy woman will probably be more empathetic towards your struggles than guys will.

Quote

It's one thing to reject but to do so with contempt shows that many of these women are just spoilt and have no empathy for all the struggling guys. 

And you have no empathy for the struggles women might face. You see how easy it is for them to do the things you struggle with and assume that means everything in their life is great.

I agree with you, what incels probably need is some love and care and empathy. I usually argue on the side of having empathy for them as well, I just disagree with the particular viewpoint you have of blaming women for any of this. If a guy is repeatedly creepy you can't expect all women to be angelic in how they treat him, he deserves some painful rejections to correct that creepiness.

[Striving for more]

@Lucas-fgm

3 minutes ago, Lucas-fgm said:

I love women and just accept the way they are, but they really do have a disproportionate amount of options compared to men in dating.

So I have to agree with you on this.

 On this, I have to completely disagree with you, I know many handsome "nice" guys. That gets rejected all the time for ugly guys.

 

Fair play, I Hope that is true and possible but

It is just reality is so harsh and shallow, I don't know anymore, perhaps I am wrong, but the black pill guys provided such compelling arguments, far more cogently with more evidence than Leo would argue otherwise. 

[something_else]

2 minutes ago, Striving for more said:

the black pill guys provided such compelling arguments, far more cogently with more evidence than Leo would argue otherwise. 

this right here, this is your problem. you are looking for arguments and reason and logic about dating when really you just need to go outside and be social

[Striving for more]

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

If a guy is repeatedly creepy you can't expect all women to be angelic in how they treat him, he deserves some painful rejections to correct that creepiness.

This is true but I'm not talking about creepy men. I'm talking about bad looking or low value men, who get treaded with disrespect and contempt, rather than just a polite no thanks but I am flattered ect... 

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

 Incels are legit dangerous, the other two there are not. As long as you're not creepy woman will probably be more empathetic towards your struggles than guys will.

And you have no empathy for the struggles women might face. You see how easy it is for them to do the things you struggle with and assume that means everything in their life is great.

Since when do I not have empaty for the "struglles women might face". This is purely a dating discussion, within the context of wealthy & 1st world countries. 

You don't know me nor do you know what my overall world view is, so please do not generalise 1 comment into "I have no empathy towards women" because that is not true. 

This is purely talking about dating here.

You have proved my point excactly. Calling incels "legit dangerous" is extreme and unhelpful. The type of person who shoots up a school is dangerous, he is a vary rare edge case, generalizing men who are just too short or ugly into "dangerous" is pretty statistaclly innacurate.

By the way, the word "incel" itself is dangeours, and needs to be seen as like using the N**** word, it's a stupid word and you're derogatory if you use and abuse it. 

  

Edited July 9, 2021 by Striving for more