How come that girls can be ruthless against nice guys?

[StarStruck]

Bottom line is really this after view days of contemplation: a guy should make himself the middle point of his life. All his investments should go towards himself. A girl is only a supplement: no emotional/financial investment should be made in her, no approval expected, no loyalty given and no expectations made.

Edited July 13, 2021 by StarStruck

[Tangerinedream]

3 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

A girl is only a supplement: no emotional/financial investment should be made in her, no approval expected, no loyalty given and no expectations made.

Yes and no. Of course don’t invest too much in the beginning when dating.  But this shouldn’t be the case once in a relationship. 

I think a way to look at it would be (relationship speaking) that the woman takes 2nd place in the mans life.  1st place is his life purpose.  Of course 2nd best doesn’t sound good, but 2nd place is still very high in the mans life. It’s even above family members etc. She can still be your ‘queen’ but a woman doesn’t want to be number 1.  Yes, of course she wants to be your number 1 girl, but number 2 in life. 

[Preety_India]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Parththakkar12 Because it is not socially correct to say i am attracted to narcissistic sociopaths. If someone told that you to you, you would feel like there is something wrong with her. Therefore, dating fantasies are created. A colossal cope.

It is true that guys are honest about being attracted to physical features however those things are not negative traits but just neutral. Being narcissistic, very independent to the point of giving 0 shits about others , assertive, dominant etc can be great for the individual that has these attributes in aiding his survival but it harms society as a whole. Most issues in the world have been caused through history by these very traits. Meanwhile a big set of tits harms no one. 

Only girls with weak self esteem fall for the narcissists you're talking about. Healthy girls eventually leave such men.

So if you want to become the kind of guy that attracts women easily also focus on the women that are exactly attracted to such men.

For example if I only focused on my beauty to attract men and did not focus on evolving my character, then the type of men I'll attract will be shallow men, of course I can attract many men in that manner, but for quantity, I'm sacrificing quality. 

It's up to me to decide if it's a numbers game or not. It doesn't become a numbers game just because someone stated it. It's a matter of choice.

Similarly it's upto the man to decide if he wants a numbers game or if he wants a healthy woman that admires a healthy man aka the good nice guy (not the manipulative nice guy.)

 

[Preety_India]

Girls don't like assholes. They eventually leave them 

You guys have made a fantasy out of this whole asshole thing. It doesn't work like that

Female attraction is not this easy that you become an asshole and you attract women. 

Women look for a lot of beneficial traits like confidence and Protectiveness. Sadly a lot of these traits are found in assholes.

But a woman doesn't opt for the"asshole" part of an asshole. 

She is still looking for the good traits

A woman is simply looking for high confidence and trustworthiness.

If a nice guy can cultivate at least (even) 10% confidence that a typical asshole displays, then the nice guy can easily win the woman. 

If you think that you are a nice guy, you simply have to cultivate specific traits that make you look confident. Not narcissistic. Not psychopath. Just confident and trustworthy.

 

Drop that fantasy.

[bejapuskas]

@Peter Miklis I also get the feeling that you're trying to fill a hole inside you. But maybe you are also blocking people. I get why you would not date somebody who gets over break ups by finding a new person immediately, but I am not sure where your limits in this particular judgement are. Maybe the people who are sexually open enough to be compatible with you are those who you judge and weed out. Just a theory though. 

@Preety_India  Do you think that the thing with getting horny after an argument or anger releasing the same hormones as the desire for sex might contribute to women tolerating assholes?

@Arcangelo I agree with you that proving others wrong is violence.

@Parththakkar12  Why do you say you don't give a shit when you do? It seems like you still care too much about hypocritical women. You cannot save them, just move on, we are 8 billion, you can surely find somebody who is compatible in such a large population.

@Karmadhi  I would suggest redefining the traits of assertive, dominant etc. It might help your mental.

 @StarStruck  Do you think loyalty is just a useless construct? In my view, if you choose one girl (which is already energetically exhausting) and choose not to constantly chase other girls and pursue sex, it might give you more focus and energy for your goals. Just a perspective though.

I am happy about the quality of posts on this thread increasing.

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@Peter Miklis 

@Preety_India  Do you think that the thing with getting horny after an argument or anger releasing the same hormones as the desire for sex might contribute to women tolerating assholes?

@Arcangelo 

@Parththakkar12  

@Karmadhi 

 @StarStruck  

@bejapuskas I guess there are multiple factors here 

You made an interesting point. Women do feel a certain unusual feeling when a guy argues too much with them. A feeling of submission or surrender ? Probably because from an evolutionary perspective, men largely dominated women for a long time. It's possible that when a man is provoking a woman,he is releasing signals of domination that are picked on by the woman, she inherently senses the sexual tension in his aggression. Who knows if testosterone is responsible for this behaviour in the man and if it biologically proved that testosterone is responsible for this behaviour in a man (remember male elephants become hyper aggresive under the impact of male sexual hormones during musth) so it's easy to see that the male hormones might be contributing to the aggression, However if that's the case then it's easy for the woman to associate this aggression with sexiness or "desire for sex" because only the female can detect the intensity of male sexual hormones ( I mean that's how nature is designed right, the whole pheromone thing where the opposite sex can detect horniness through signals given by pheromones) so maybe this aggression gives out a pheromone-like signal that induces a sexual reaction in a woman and she automatically begins to feel sexual for the man provoking her. I guess that part of sexual biology can explain why that would be the case.

The other part is that domination is always associated with sex. Because a guy tries to Dominate a woman during hot sex..I guess the woman detects this domination in the man, a reason why she will feel sexual around a dominating guy.

The third reason why I think a woman feels sexual around a dominating guy is because she feels a sense of dependability there. If she is a naturally submissive woman, then her inner femininity is going to crave some dependability through vulnerability. This dependability is fulfilled by a dominating guy. These traits of domination, assertiveness and dependability are super important to her. It's like she wants a guy to hold her, make her feel wanted. Generally dominant guys are good at this, creating this feeling in a girl- "I'm gonna take care of this, you have nothing to worry," this feeling lifts a lot of tension and creates a huge  sense  of relaxation in a woman, it signals dependability and that's probably what she is looking for.

The fourth reason why I think the woman is attracted to such men is quite easy to see. In nature we see images of the male relentlessly chasing the female and in the end mating with her. In reality too, a man chasing a woman can induce a feminine sexual response,(only if the guy is not acting too needy, or it repels her) and who do you think is going to relentlessly chase a woman? I guess only a man who shows traits of domination and aggression. So it goes to show that such men have higher chances of nailing a woman than a guy who sits in a room with a bag of books. 

Overall traits of domination/dominance, assertiveness, confidence, dependability tend to create a feminine sexual response because this has an evolutionary origin in women depending on men historically. It's obvious why such a mate would be desirable in her eyes from a "Evolutionary origin" and "evolutionary biology" as well as "female sexual biology" perspective.

 

 

[bejapuskas]

@Preety_India  I see what you mean. But then there is this thing with some anger actually being toxic and some anger just being an emotion you release when you are trying to solve a problem. One can argue in a very loving way. Anyone can have an argument with their partner and then feel like shit and this can repeat and lead to an end of a relationship, worse case life. But some people can be so good for each other and recognize that, argue when they know the other person is willing to undergo a change or to listen to them more in an aspect they want to point out to them, and then after the argument is done and resolved, you might go into the sexual play of staring the other person down, getting on top of them, undressing them etc. But I think that is totally fine only if like the arguments lead to a deepening of connection. Most people probably think all arguments are bad.

I disagree with you on some other points, I think guys can be submissive or switches too, not necessarily does a guy dominate when they enjoy, but definitely nice guys might have a shadow in the area of domination, because they might not want to feel like somebody is their whore etc. And I think those guys might try it out because it can be learnt and enjoyed. It can release tension and lead to better sex without necessarily including becoming an asshole in life.

This I am gonna take care of this I think should be a part of every relationship that Is healthy, I hate the idea of one sided chasing although periods of one sided chasing from both sides can be nice. I just do not recommend people to go for somebody who keeps ignoring them to the extent when they feel like they are chasing.

[Preety_India]

42 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@Preety_India  I see what you mean. But then there is this thing with some anger actually being toxic and some anger just being an emotion you release when you are trying to solve a problem. One can argue in a very loving way. Anyone can have an argument with their partner and then feel like shit and this can repeat and lead to an end of a relationship, worse case life.

 

 

To be Frank the whole anger thing creating sexual tension  only happens temporarily.  In long term,  constant arguments  and disagreements can fail a relationship. 

42 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

But some people can be so good for each other and recognize that, argue when they know the other person is willing to undergo a change or to listen to them more in an aspect they want to point out to them, and then after the argument is done and resolved, you might go into the sexual play of staring the other person down, getting on top of them, undressing them etc. But I think that is totally fine only if like the arguments lead to a deepening of connection. Most people probably think all arguments are bad.

I'm not  sure about this. For some reason,  this sounds like a toxic relationship with some chemistry thrown into it. 

The whole thing about "having sex to make up after a fight" is a huge turn off in my eyes. 

I find it extremely dysfunctional..  I don't know if relationships last that way.. 

 

42 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

I disagree with you on some other points, I think guys can be submissive or switches too, not necessarily does a guy dominate when they enjoy, but definitely nice guys might have a shadow in the area of domination, because they might not want to feel like somebody is their whore etc.

Dominating a woman doesn't mean treating her like a  whore.  

You can have an elder brother who dominates you but also guides you. 

Domination does not mean treating someone badly. 

The husband / boyfriend is simply taking charge and doing things his way,  being assertive and is good at convincing.  He is  able to dominate an argument but not by offending or controlling,  by lovingly guiding and swaying the woman in his direction. 

The kind of domination that goes against a woman's will,  I won't call it domination but controlling  behavior. 

There's a fine line between being a leader and being a controller.  

A guy with leadership traits is attractive.  A guy with  controlling traits is  repulsive. 

42 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

 

 

 

And I think those guys might try it out because it can be learnt and enjoyed. It can release tension and lead to better sex without necessarily including becoming an asshole in life.

That's what I mean.  A guy can be dominant,  confident and assertive without having to be an asshole. 

A lot of men confuse dominance for assholism.. 

They think that if a woman wants a dominating guy, she is automatically looking for an asshole. 

There's a middle ground where a man can be well behaving yet having a sense of pride, trustworthy and dominating.  He does not have to hit anyone to be assertive.  

 

42 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

This I am gonna take care of this I think should be a part of every relationship that Is healthy, I hate the idea of one sided chasing although periods of one sided chasing from both sides can be nice. I just do not recommend people to go for somebody who keeps ignoring them to the extent when they feel like they are chasing.

Chasing a woman doesn't necessarily mean that the woman is ignoring you although I can see why you think that way.  Maybe the woman is simply waiting to submit to your initiative? Maybe she wants to really feel wanted and she is looking for that peak point where you'll generate that feeling in her? Maybe your chasing is creating sexual desires in her but she could be waiting for the climax?

If you suddenly  stop the chase,  she could easily lose all the sexual feelings that were building up within her,  she might even assume that she isn't wanted enough.  Maybe she's waiting for some more chasing and you're prematurely giving up. 

Of course chasing is hard,  it's also hard on her because she has to hold the tension as long as the chasing goes on,  it's like a sweet war. It's form of sexual persuasion that draws her in.  

It's not about ignoring someone or ego battles. It's about building sexual chemistry. 

 

[bejapuskas]

@Preety_India  I agree there is a fine line and I agree that what you describe is a toxic dynamic imo, but like arguments dont have to be that and having sex after an argument does not need to be making up for anything. Arent you one of the people who think arguments are always bad? Have you ever had a productive argument?

I think there can be different definitions of what treating like a whore means. I think we mean different things. Some people love being called whore. And it doesnt need to be the case that a person calls a girl whore while having sex and is also an asshole to her outside the bedroom. I think there are different kinds of domination and I agree with what you described being a healthy domination based on trust. Pride, confidence, trust... You can literally tie up someone, make them completely powerless and hit them in a way they enjoy and have it be based on trust. But there needs to be communication.

What do you mean by reaching the climax in sexual attraction? Could you describe an experience? I think it can be a way to end up with someone who you dont really want to be with if you need to like keep building up for such a long time, although I know such couples I guess...

[Preety_India]

10 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@Preety_India  I agree there is a fine line and I agree that what you describe is a toxic dynamic imo, but like arguments dont have to be that and having sex after an argument does not need to be making up for anything. Arent you one of the people who think arguments are always bad?

 

10 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

 

Have you ever had a productive argument?

Yes but kinda rarely.  

I don't think a lot of people have the maturity for a productive argument. 

I myself always wanted a productive argument. 

But I found two things with the men I had an argument with -

A) they would give a cold treatment.  That is not wanting to talk. I become helpless there because it won't go anywhere if the other party gets up and leaves 

B) if the other party resorts to insults and name calling. That's not a productive argument in my opinion.  So I usually leave the argument when that happens   

 

10 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

I think there can be different definitions of what treating like a whore means. I think we mean different things. Some people love being called whore. And it doesnt need to be the case that a person calls a girl whore while having sex and is also an asshole to her outside the bedroom. I think there are different kinds of domination and I agree with what you described being a healthy domination based on trust. Pride, confidence, trust... You can literally tie up someone, make them completely powerless and hit them in a way they enjoy and have it be based on trust. But there needs to be communication.

You're simply giving an example  of bdsm. 

You have to be careful about how you word things. 

This statement " because they might not want to feel like somebody is their whore etc." is very very different from  calling a woman whore while enjoying sadomasochistic sex with her. 

They're not the same thing. 

Considering a woman to be a whore can mean that she shouldn't be respected or her sexuality should be degraded or she can be taken for granted because she is a  "whore " aka a woman with no value in his eyes

As we all know that "whore" is a derogatory term,  it should be used in a very nuanced way to indicate what the user really meant. 

Sorry but a lot of people defend the use of the N word in a similar manner when it's mutually agreed on that it's an offensive word and hence context makes all the difference. 

Similarly if you're going to use that word, it can be mostly interpreted in derogatory ways if not specifically mentioned otherwise. 

Now since you explained it, I understand what you're trying to convey but my point was that dominating a woman does not mean degrading her. 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

What do you mean by reaching the climax in sexual attraction? Could you describe an experience? I think it can be a way to end up with someone who you dont really want to be with if you need to like keep building up for such a long time, although I know such couples I guess...

Climax in the sense a point of submission where she is fully ready to mentally give herself to the man who is chasing her.  Her mind finally agrees with her heart that this man really wants her in a genuine way and she is  falling for it too.  

This point is only reached when she feels that he is genuinely wanting her and it's not fake.  The longer the chase the greater is her reassurance that this man really sees her as a prize.  If he doesn't chase her hard, she might feel that he only had a passing interest and wasn't too serious. 

More effort from his side convinces her that he is being totally serious and really wants her. Some women might take this as desperation.  Some women might feel like they are really wanted badly. 

A climax is reached when she cannot resist the guy anymore and feels like she has to give in to his advances because her sexual feelings for him are getting stronger and reaching a peak point. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

12 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Parththakkar12  Why do you say you don't give a shit when you do? It seems like you still care too much about hypocritical women. You cannot save them, just move on, we are 8 billion, you can surely find somebody who is compatible in such a large population.

I care about the truth, not about the women themselves! I care about the hypocrisy, not the hypocritical women. If I see the hypocrisy, then I see the truth about them, then I know not to care about them. The point is to see the hypocrisy consciously and not delude myself about it, so that I can make up my mind!

Edited July 14, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[knakoo]

On 11/07/2021 at 0:43 PM, Etherial Cat said:

I really like this video.  So If I had to pick up only one, I'd chose it 

 

This one gave me a a natural provisory enlightenment. So I'm particularly fond of it.

--

But generally speaking, I would say that his portfolio of video is of such quality that they almost all deserve to be watched. At least the most recent ones (up to 3-4 years ago). 

The ones which are worth skipping are those that were obviously done in a different era and have too much Orange in it.

Yes. Yourself.  Follow your inner Guru.

Nowadays, I look for spiritual teachers who resonate especially with me and bring out my own knowledge. The more I find them beautiful, the more I know that their style of teaching has a piece of who I am under the veil of ego...

In my case, I resonate with a triumvirate of Love, Truth and Consciousness.

And at the specific moment, I have a strong focus on actuality, a lot of my consciousness work is directed at the now itself. So you won't be surprised if I tell you that my favorite spiritual teacher is Eckhart Tolle (and he has always been anyway- his teachings are simple but effective). 

But literally, everyone is my teacher. I am not attached to one of them in particular. I diversify my sources through space, time and medium.

That said, youtube is certainely very convenient. And there I like the videos made by Rupert Spira, Adyashanti, Francis Lucille, Marianne Wiliamson, Tara Brach, Matt Kahn, etc. I like the fact that they have a lot of video on common contemporary issues. So you've got a good pool of Q&A coming from them. And lately, I have also started listening to Nahm's videos.

 

Thank you for the answer. Yes I remember loving the Self Love video as well. 

Did you often have awakenings simply watching a video ? How does it happen ? You have an epiphany and then your perspective shifts ? 

Yes Eckhart is awesome

"Francis Lucille, Marianne Wiliamson, Tara Brach" Curious about those 3. Thank you for sharing !

[bejapuskas]

@Parththakkar12  Why do you care about the truth though, is it to make up your mind or is it a defense mechanism caused by hurtness?

@Preety_India  I am sorry you had to deal with such men. I guess you need to have a sincere care for each other and be willing to let go of defenses. You are right that only a few men have the maturity. Sometimes people have family trauma and dont want to talk because they think youd judge them for their emotions though.

Yes that is exactly why I explain it and why I emphasize communication so much when I give dating advice. Im not an advocate for slut shaming and calling others derogatory words. I think BDSM based on trust and consent is fine.

I see about the climax. I think that deeper knowledge though only arises in the relationship. I guess there is only very little you can learn about someone while you are still in dating phase. I mean it is useful, but I guess I wouldnt be naive to think that a person can be understood from a few interactions. What do you think about that? I guess it sounds pessimistic and hopeless, but also there probably are some deal breakers in dating that definitely help. Do you think love grows throughout and climaxes keep coming?

 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, bejapuskas said:

I guess there is only very little you can learn about someone while you are still in dating phase. I mean it is useful, but I guess I wouldnt be naive to think that a person can be understood from a few interactions. What do you think about that? I guess it sounds pessimistic and hopeless, but also there probably are some deal breakers in dating that definitely help. Do you think love grows throughout and climaxes keep coming?

I think you didn't quite grasp what I meant by climax. It only happens once and not again and again. The woman feels like submitting to the man's love and that's the point called " falling in love" the emotion that accompanies this point is what I meant by climax. She then wants to further explore the relationship with the man. This point is the point where the relationship begins essentially. They both fall in love now and sex is most likely to happen. Love has only begun. The deal-breaker stuff will happen later in the relationship. 

It's quite sad when two people fall in love so deeply and later realize that there are dealbreakers and that they are not compatible to each other. That's a kind of a hurtful phase in the relationship.

All these incompatibilities really destroy relationships.

 

 

[Parththakkar12]

9 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Parththakkar12  Why do you care about the truth though, is it to make up your mind or is it a defense mechanism caused by hurtness?

It's to learn lessons from past hurt so that I don't make the same mistakes again.

[bejapuskas]

@Preety_India  I still think climax or falling in love can happen multiple times as you grow with someone. I think it happening only once is a kind of naive idealization of the emotion. One might think the other person is perfect and that they will fix them and fit them perfectly and that they will stay on matter what etc...