Are extroverted individuals capable becoming self-actualized?

[BlackMaze]

My opinion is that extroverts and introverts are equally lost in their minds. Maybe introverts do have an advantage but i think that other factors are more important like life experiences (suffering in whatever form guides people to start with self help or even spirituality) and the degree of intelligence you are born with. This last statement seems harsh but lately i can see how this is true in some cases. There are people that finished school and can't do simple math. If someone is like this he is basically fucked. 

[lmfao]

Some people simply don't think much. I overthink. And I find myself surrendering my  thinkingness sometimes as something I strive towards, and just acting outside in the world regardless of mind. Maybe extroverts, sensors, feelers, they can do some of this easier! So it's not all good or bad on one side. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by lmfao

[Carl-Richard]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't be fooled by an extrovert's happy facade. Such people are not happy, they are just gerbils in wheels.

Happiness is a fuzzy term. Extroverts tend to experience more positive emotion.

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Isn't socialization supposed to feed our dopamine circuit through validation

Dopamine is the definition of unhappiness.

You might as well be telling me that heroin addicts are happy.

Why do you think they call it dope?

No amount of validation in the universe will make you happy.

[lmfao]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Happiness is a fuzzy term. Extroverts tend to experience more positive emotion.

Sounds like bullshit. But if it isn't, I don't care and it doesn't mean anything to me at least 

Neuroticism can masquerade as introversion though, that's something to realise. Maybe you guys have seen this as well, I know I have. The introvert can play off their neuroticism and unhealthy withdrawal from life as introversion 

Edited July 8, 2021 by lmfao

[VioletFlame]

Out of all the people on this forum, I am almost sure there are extroverts. They are not a lost cause and have just as much capacity to self-actualize as an introvert. The question is how many self-disciplined extroverts are on this forum and how willing are they to commit and balance their social life with their solitary practice?

I believe extroverts are more than capable to self-actualize, it's just a matter of shifting one's mindset. For example, an extrovert who is interested in self-actualization may be more focused on seeing external results manifest rather than internal results. And they may be more susceptible to distractions around them, making it difficult to ground into their intention. 

Granted, it may be easier for an introvert to commit to a practice of self-actualization but I wouldn't exclude extroverts or undermine an extrovert's potential to self-actualize. If anything, we should aim to encourage and support more extroverts to personally transform themselves when it may not be as natural for them or on top of their to-do list. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, lmfao said:

Sounds like bullshit. But if it isn't, I don't care and it doesn't mean anything to me at least 

It's a rather uncontroversial finding in psychology. Remember that some terms in psychology don't translate perfectly to every person's intuition of the term. In psychology, the term "emotion" has a very technical definition (with various nuances depending on the model), and it's possible to define happiness as something that goes beyond emotions. For example, consciousness is not the same as positive emotion (although they're strongly correlated depending on your definition). Emotions can change while consciousness remains the same.

 

1 hour ago, lmfao said:

Neuroticism can masquerade as introversion though, that's something to realise. Maybe you guys have seen this as well, I know I have. The introvert can play off their neuroticism and unhealthy withdrawal from life as introversion 

Is the unhealthy withdrawal from life due to a negative mood? I would make the distinction between traits vs. states. Neuroticism (trait) is not exactly equal to negative emotion (state). States change while traits are more or less consistent across situations.

Big 5 personality traits are also considered independent (they don't correlate with eachother). For example, you can be highly extroverted and highly neurotic at the same time, and these different combinations will interact in predictable ways.

Neuroticism measures the frequency and amplitude of emotions; how easily your emotional state changes and how strong they are (extreme highs and extreme lows). It's not necessarily linked to negative emotions, but it tends to be associated with that aspect. It has to do with how you tackle arousal and stressors, be it positive or negative. For example, the combination of high E and N and low Conscientiousness makes you more prone to risky sexual behavior and reckless drinking.

Therefore, instead of saying that neuroticism can masquerade as introversion (two independent traits), I think it's more accurate to say that negative emotion (state) can express itself as social withdrawal (behavioral response), and that various personality traits can produce these different states and behavioral responses in different situations. A neurotic extrovert could feel very sad in the same situation that a neurotic introvert would feel huge relief.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[7thLetter]

2 hours ago, ll Ontology ll said:

@7thLetter Blah eat my ball sack. I've got many extroverted characteristics. Introverts these days I swear.... They're so lost in their own minds they can't generate enough perspective on their own assumptions to dental floss their conclusions.

ok Mr. Extrovert

How's the weather today? Temperature high or low where you're at? Gosh darn global warming. You eat good food today? Watching the big UFC fight this weekend Mr. Extrovert?

did I do a good job at making small talk? Ahaha, I'm just kidding. 

It's just a discussion, I would assume a majority of us here are introverts who have personality types that lead us to become allured by what is taught here at Actualized.org. And I'm just saying, I haven't met any extroverts that are the deep philosophical type so what can I say

[7thLetter]

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

Curb your triggers, this is exactly what I meant.

Triggers? Where am I being triggered, in the thread?

The thread was written on a whim one night and I posted it knowing that it most likely will come across to others as arrogance. I just deleted everything actually.

[7thLetter]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Who says they have to be intellectuals? That's your subjective bias. There are many more ways to live life than as an intellectual on YT.

Again, your bias is causing you to lose sight of other modes of doing spiritual work.

The majority of spiritual work in the world is done via group and communal settings. People meditate together, drink psychedelics together, have orgies together, pray together, go to church together, etc. Even monks live together and fuck each other.

It's not exactly a bias that I hold, those ways of doing spiritual work in a group setting just didn't cross my mind until you mentioned them, so good point.

Also, originally this thread was actually supposed to be more of a question of "Are extroverts capable of being deep philosophical intellectuals" because that's really what I'm asking here. The thread was just written on a whim and I didn't know exactly how to word it. Then you mentioned enlightenment and that's where the direction of the conversation went, I didn't actually mention enlightenment myself.

Because to be honest I'm not entirely interested in enlightenment just yet. I'm more interested in intellectuals and intellectual growth.

And to anyone reading this if the thread sounded arrogant, its more of a reflection of my frustration with being unable to find other like-minded individuals. The recent friends I've had were all extroverts that just couldn't hold a deep conversation.

[lmfao]

34 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's a rather uncontroversial finding in psychology. Remember that some terms in psychology don't translate perfectly to every person's intuition of the term. In psychology, the term "emotion" has a very technical definition (with various nuances depending on the model), and it's possible to define happiness as something that goes beyond emotions. For example, consciousness is not the same as positive emotion (although they're strongly correlated depending on your definition). Emotions can change while consciousness remains the same.

 

 

When it comes to the Big 5 outlook on extraversion, with it being correlated to positive emotion, I have this video in the backwater of "watch later". Haven't seen yet 

 

34 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is the unhealthy withdrawal from life due to a negative mood? I would make the distinction between traits vs. states. Neuroticism (trait) is not exactly equal to negative emotion (state). States change while traits are more or less consistent across situations

Yeah good point man. But I don't only use the word neuroticism in the big five 5 sense. 

34 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Therefore, instead of saying that neuroticism can masquerade as introversion (two independent traits), I think it's more accurate to say that negative emotion (state) can express itself as social withdrawal (behavioral response), and that various personality traits can produce these different states and behavioral responses in different situations. A neurotic extrovert could feel very sad in the same situation that a neurotic introvert would feel huge relief.

Alright so this all follows from you making distinction between state and trait. That's a good enough lens and I understand what you're saying, I can't say it lands or resonates with me.

State vs trait, a specific scientific example of appearance vs essence duality. Also of people just asking the question in general, what's the difference between what you do and what you are? 

20 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

I just deleted everything actually.

Brooooooo you could have just kept it. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by lmfao

[7thLetter]

1 minute ago, lmfao said:

Brooooooo you could have just kept it. 

wait are you serious lol

seemed like I was sort of getting some backlash for it

Everyone here has read it though, oh well.

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, lmfao said:

State vs trait, a more scientific version of appearance vs essence duality. Or just of people asking the question in general, what's the difference between what you do and what you are? 

The state vs trait distinction is essentially what distinguishes the study of emotion from the study of personality (although they obviously overlap). Emotions capture the way some aspects of behavior are expressed in the moment while personality captures how some aspects of behavior is consistent over time.

I have nothing against using words like extroverted or neurotic in a more colloquial way. After all, Big 5 was created by sampling adjectives from the dictionary. It's in many ways the model of the people.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[lmfao]

@Carl-Richard Yep 

[diamondpenguin]

@Leo Gura @7thLetter Hey, don't be discriminating against extraverts guys, just because ya'll feel drained being in social situations. but honestly that's true, when I'm alone I feel insane and depressed, but when I find someone to talk to you, I get all jazzed up and my self-esteem starts flying with the roof when I'm with my friends, it's because extraverts get eachother siked up, and it gives us this high sort of bliss and can accomplish amazing things that just one lone introvert couldn't. But being an introvert is great, because you can think clearly by yourself without having to manage all the ideas flying around. But, don't ever ponder the idea for one second that extraverts can't self-actualize. We just love People, that's the bottom line.

[diamondpenguin]

Okay here's the truth about extraverts that introverts don't understand:

 

Extraverts love people and love being around people. It's a passion for people that makes them extraverts. 

They want to help others, and make them feel happy. 

Now, you learned something new today, Good job.

 

[Revolutionary Think]

On 7/8/2021 at 5:56 AM, Leo Gura said:

Such people are not happy, they are just gerbils in wheels.

So true. In private people are seething or depressed and in public they act as if life is the best ever.