Toxic Feminity Examples Mega-Thread

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Would you say that is done through character assasination? Or is it more commonly just shunning someone?

Both. Shunning, gossiping, and ruining reputations.

This behavior goes all the way back to elementary school.

The mean girls will bully you, shun you, hold a grudge, gossip about you, and then have fun poisoning all your classmates against you.

This behavior is usually targeted at other girls.

[Applegarden8]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Both. Shunning, gossiping, and ruining reputations.

This behavior goes all the way back to elementary school.

The mean girls will bully you, shun you, hold a grudge, gossip about you, and then have fun poisoning all your classmates against you.

This behavior is usually targeted at other girls.

That is not much different to what alot of the guys I know are doing, but then again toxicity doesn't have a gender.

I think the most popular behaviour in husband-wife relatipnship for toxic femininity could be inducing "guilty for who you are" type of gaslighting and taking no accountability... nah, i acctually dislike mamy behaviours from conservative folk, like using gender roles as an argument for not taking responsibility e.c.t.

[ll Ontology ll]

Nah it's all just toxic ego, ego latches onto whatever identity is created by a given culture and biology runs that through a consciousness reinforcement feedback loop and then culture returns some kind of intellectual consensus on what's considered toxic versus not via a social feedback loop. Yal have an outdated understanding of human psychology is all. 

I've seen guys behave in the exact same way as females i.e. as per @Emerald Golden Star just in a more macho way. 

Am I green, eggs and ham or am I just ready to be seen, have my legs spread lean and be a bit more woman to man? 

We need to always aim for a more perceptually granular comprehension of the world, we are artists not brick layers here, being a bricky is for persistence, precision and purpose not for creating a world from scratch though.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

That is not much different to what alot of the guys I know are doing, but then again toxicity doesn't have a gender.

I think the most popular behaviour in husband-wife relatipnship for toxic femininity could be inducing "guilty for who you are" type of gaslighting and taking no accountability... nah, i acctually dislike mamy behaviours from conservative folk, like using gender roles as an argument for not taking responsibility e.c.t.

It’s definitely different than what most men do and how they do it.

These are behaviors that I’ve mostly seen in women and very feminine men. Behavior that would be described as catty.

Men will bully other men too. But it’s usually done very directly with offensive attacks.

For women, it becomes a wider social and emotional abuse strategy that involves manipulation.

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, ll Ontology ll said:

Nah it's all just toxic ego, ego latches onto whatever identity is created by a given culture and biology runs that through a consciousness reinforcement feedback loop and then culture returns some kind of intellectual consensus on what's considered toxic versus not via a social feedback loop. Yal have an outdated understanding of human psychology is all. 

I've seen guys behave in the exact same way as females i.e. as per @Emerald Golden Star just in a more macho way. 

Am I green, eggs and ham or am I just ready to be seen, have my legs spread lean and be a bit more woman to man? 

We need to always aim for a more perceptually granular comprehension of the world, we are artists not brick layers here, being a bricky is for persistence, precision and purpose not for creating a world from scratch though.

Toxic traits do tend to differ based on the energy one most embodies.

When I wrote my list, I had women in mind (and very feminine men) in particular. And that’s because these are uniquely feminine toxic traits.

If I were making a toxic masculinity list, the list would be very different.

The toxic feminine tends to be self-attacking. The toxic masculine tends to attack a perceived “other”.

They are different. 

[mandyjw]

These are patterns I've seen manifest in a lot of older women. None are exclusive to women. 

Over-identification with caretaking roles, a sort of mild codependency. Obsessing over a sick relative. With that said there is very little support for caregivers in our culture. Getting good childcare or eldercare in this country can be really difficult. If you take responsibility for someone it can be hard to step back from the role both in identification with it, and difficult in more practical manner of just getting assistance. 

This can also take the form of hypochondria and obsessing over one's own health. Unfortunately our medical system is equally obsessed over the possibility of getting sued or blamed, and so happy to order tests that this behavior is not properly pointed out to patients for the most part and is instead indulged. 

Another common pattern, creating dramatic and unnecessary negative situations with contractors, hired help or neighbors, etc. 

Basically all boils down to over-focusing on negatives and what's wrong in life and feeling victim to it. Being a victim is lonely, and it strangely it requires a lot of work to stay that way.  

 

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

These are patterns I've seen manifest in a lot of older women. None are exclusive to women. 

Over-identification with caretaking roles, a sort of mild codependency. Obsessing over a sick relative. With that said there is very little support for caregivers in our culture. Getting good childcare or eldercare in this country can be really difficult. If you take responsibility for someone it can be hard to step back from the role both in identification with it, and difficult in more practical manner of just getting assistance. 

This can also take the form of hypochondria and obsessing over one's own health. Unfortunately our medical system is equally obsessed over the possibility of getting sued or blamed, and so happy to order tests that this behavior is not properly pointed out to patients for the most part and is instead indulged. 

Another common pattern, creating dramatic and unnecessary negative situations with contractors, hired help or neighbors, etc. 

Basically all boils down to over-focusing on negatives and what's wrong in life and feeling victim to it. Being a victim is lonely, and it strangely it requires a lot of work to stay that way.  

 

These are common too

[Flowerfaeiry]

You're gonna get all paranoid if you're always on the lookout for unhealthy behavior in a woman. 

[Preety_India]

Women who love to gossip and women who are in authority positions and use that to destroy someone's career.

Women with the Karen mentality.

Women who use divorce and children as a weapon

Women who use sexuality to get work done.

 

[Preety_India]

I don't think that toxic feminity should be about spotting unhealthy behaviour in a woman because the same behaviour can be found in a man as well.

Toxic feminity should imply behaviours where specifically being a woman, or femininity has been used unfairly to act in ways that are harmful to society. 

An example can be a woman who uses her motherhood as a way to dominate and abuse children and justifies it in the name of a mother, this is very specific because a certain feminine trait (the ability to be a mother) is being weaponized.

So it's a bit misleading to simply state unhealthy behaviours. 

It would be more appropriate to state behaviours where a certain feminine trait or ability or feminine  identity or femininity is being weaponized by the woman.

 

[Preety_India]

One of my previous posts on the same topic

On 31/08/2020 at 6:08 AM, Preety_India said:

 

 

I had started the thread Toxic Masculinity. I don't know if this is an after thought to that.. 

Just as there is Toxic Masculinity there is Toxic Feminity as well. 

I think there are many aspects here. 

From both sides, patriarchy as well as feminism. 

I will touch on them one by one. 

Toxic Femininity and Toxic Feminism are two different things in my opinion. 

Also toxic feminism is ≠ feminism as many men like to put it out there. 

This whole negative connotation attributed to feminism hurts feminism and feminist movements which are not traditionally "man-hating" movement as a lot of the men like to parade it out there.. These are genuine movements meant to liberate women from the shackles of evil patriarchy and orthodox oppressive patriarchy and to empower women so they can live their life in peace. 

Such movements are important at least in third world countries where women are not even considered humans. 

So ridiculing such progressive movements or painting them in a bad light hurts the cause of women. 

You do realize that it's mostly women who get oppressed in major parts of the world. 

Maybe you don't see as much oppression in the West but the whole world is not the West. Majority of the world is poor and in poor countries the treatment of women is appalling. 

So always understand how you express your ideas and your connotations and how they can negatively impact legit movements in this world against injustice and oppression. 

Now I want to give some examples of toxic femininity and toxic feminism. 

Feminism should be about Empowering women. Educating them. Giving them the tools for a healthy independent survival, and creating an environment and a system which is healthy for their growth and not oppressive, liberating to their expression and a system where they won't feel terrorized. 

A woman does not have to live in constant fear of a man. Such a system is rotten at its core. It's evil patriarchy nonsense 

A woman needs a fairly gender neutral balanced system. No male domination bullshit. That's what feminism should be about. 

Feminism should be about abolishing male domination. Men cannot decide how women should live their life. Just like women don't decide how men live.. 

Also feminism should not be about establishing female domination because any domination is bad 

An equal system where powers are balanced and no gender is dominating over the other 

 

Expecting a woman to be sweet at all times. Expecting her to be a graceful angel delicate and sweet and polite.

 

 

This is toxic femininity. 

 

Just like with toxic masculinity, men are not allowed to be men, they are not allowed to express sadness or fear, in a similar way women are not allowed to express rage and anger. 

Rage and anger is also an emotion just as any other human emotion like grief, pain, fear, sadness, shock etc. 

Men are not allowed certain emotional expressions because it's considered weak or lame if they express themselves openly. This is inhibiting to them. 

In a similar way when a woman is not allowed to express rage and anger and outrage its inhibiting to her 

A woman is expected to simply swallow her anger and not express it even if her life is in danger. 

She is labeled "angry", mocked, ridiculed and shamed if she gets angry. 

So if I get sexually harassed, I'm not supposed to be angry or express my outrage? 

This is toxic femininity. It's completely to express any emotion which is invoked by the situation, be it male or female 

Women too get stressed out. They suffer too. They are humans. And just like humans they can have moments of tantrums, fits of rage, moments of impatience and distress which can pour out as anger and not so pleasant reactions.. 

To ridicule a woman for her natural emotional expressions is to dehumanize her. To consider her less of a human. 

 

Women feel pain too. And often this pain is expressed as anger. 

 

 

Expecting a woman to be a Saint. 

This is another example of toxic femininity. A woman is also a human, not just a woman. She is not to be completely 

In this category, men enjoy a lot or leverage and privilege over women.. 

You must have heard the phrase "men will be men" or "boys will be boys" being casually thrown around. 

 

If men can be men, then why can't women be women? 

 

Why can't women get away with doing wrong things. Why can't women have character flaws? 

And by wrong things I don't mean serious criminal things. I mean everyday character flaws. The regular character flaws. 

Why are women put on pedestal and then expected to act like a Saint? 

Does such treatment and double standard respect the humanity of a woman? The answer is no. 

Basically what this means is that women will be judged severely even for minor things. Such "saintly expectations" means a woman will be observed through a microscope, her every flaw will be magnified 1000 times. She will be shamed for 

In other words she has to be perfect or else she is not a woman 

 

Granted that moral values are to be expected from women, but they should be expected in equal measure from both men and women in a similar manner. 

By this I don't mean that women should be let off with for serious bad behaviors. But they should not be shamed for little things or demonized for things that are minor flaws of human nature. 

For example if a man gets drunk, it's no big deal. If a man acts selfish or gets greedy its no big deal. If a man acts bossy then no big deal. But if a woman acts selfish, then she is the most evil. If she got drunk, then she is the worst of all. 

This is nothing but toxic femininity by placing very high expectations on women to the point where they cannot be themselves.. 

 

Expecting a woman to be hyper sexual or else she is a prude. 

This is a general tendency in western countries 

This is the Madonna whore complex. If she is shy and docile and not being sexual enough, then she is a prude. Why can't she just be herself? 

Does a woman need to run around naked to prove that she has a vagina or to prove that she feels sexual? 

Her sex and sexual freedom is her business. 

Same with expecting a woman to be conservatively dressed or act very strict and not be sexual at all 

This expectation is found in countries where female sexual repression is very high. Generally eastern countries. 

If the woman is expressing her sexual side, then the men assume that she is a whore, she is asking to be raped, she is giving signals that all kinds of misbehavior is okay, or she is not supposed to act sexual. This is called repression and control.. 

A woman is free to express her sexual desires however she wants. If she doesn't like to dress provocatively, then it's her choice, she is not a prude for that. Her sexual ethics or styles are different. If she likes to dress provocatively, again it's her choice to express her sexuality. She is not a whore for that. 

True freedom and liberation lies in a woman's expression without being labeled for it 

 

 

Some serious cringe 

This is toxic femininity but not toxic feminism.. Just an example

This behavior coming from women is very toxic. Rape is a serious crime and to expect to get raped. It's messed up.

In this case the women are okaying wrong behavior. 

It's a different thing if they wanted him to be dominating in bed. 

But such an outright expression and using the word rape in this context is very inappropriate.

 

 

Womanhood and femininity does not lie in being a male. Of course a woman is totally free to be whatever and however she chooses to be. But the notion that a woman should be a man is a bit strange one. It's almost as if men said they wanted to be women. Can you see how odd that would be. Now this particular thought is strictly in context of men and women and not transgenders because trans people are allowed to be the opposite gender if they want to be. But this is outside of that context. To tell a woman that she has to be a woman is basically an assault on her womanhood. Why can't she be allowed to be herself? 

Do we expect men to be women? Then why expect a woman to be a man? 

Am I not a woman if I can't lift 20 pound weight. Do I stop being a woman if I cannot do things that men can easily do. 

It hurts feminism to say that every woman should work like a man. A woman may choose to not work and be a homemaker or do her own thing. Her preferences shouldn't be questioned. That's not called freedom. Freedom lies in being able to do what you want to do in life, how you want it and living your life by your own terms.. 

Empowering women is very different from forcing women. Empowering is giving them tools and resources and forcing is making rules and applying pressure. 

This is very nicely illustrated in this video by Christopher Hitchens. 

 

 

 

 

The Misuse of sexual powers 

When I showed this to my boyfriend he said, "she is not a woman. She is a boy who was born without a d*ck." 

In a sense yes. Womanhood does not lie in exploiting your sexual attractiveness in evil ways as a means to an end, to achieve something dangerous. Sexual attractiveness in both men and women is meant for romance and dating and relationships. And not as a weapon to get things done. Such women are a representation of toxic femininity. 

 

Giving more value to sexual attractiveness over moral character. 

I remember a few months ago I was watching a video of 2 teen girls who murdered their friend in cold blood. And I read a comment on the video from a man. He said he would totally do her, one of the killer girls because in his eyes she was totally hot. 

 

I pointed out to him how inappropriate it was to overlook that she participated in a gruesome murder and only focus on her looks. And he said he didn't care what she did as long as she was attractive. This is a problem. This is another example of toxic femininity where the only expectation from a gender is good looks and nothing else. In this case this toxicity is encouraged by such men.. 

Such men that you will come across that will find Jodi Arias attractive and would want to date her even after knowing what she did.. I cringe at it. 

Now the opposite is also an example of toxic femininity. Just reverse the gender roles. You have women who used to write love letters to Ted Bundy, fantasizing him. The world's most famous serial killer. This is another example of toxic femininity. Because such women encourage toxic men or toxic male behaviors. 

 

 

I think a lot of the times, women get away with such behavior just because they are women, somehow they can't do any wrong, or if they did, it's justified in some manner. Often times women justify their torture and abuse in the name of motherhood. 

A mother is not exempt from judgement just because of motherhood. 

A woman should not be exempt from judgement and punishment just because she is a woman. Granted that she can be let go for common human flaws and errors, but serious crimes and criminal behaviors  and dangerous behaviors should call for action and punishment 

Maternal abuse is just as common as paternal abuse but society finds it difficult to accept because somehow mothers are examples of divinity. This is a dangerous illusion. 

Women are equally capable of evil just as men 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Toxic femininity is a woman lying about rape, tricking a man into raising a child that isn't his, hitting a man, lying about abuse to get custody, marrying a man solely for money, playing manipulative games to get her way, cheating in a marriage and expecting the husband to put up with it etc etc etc

 

 

 

[Etherial Cat]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Toxic traits that can be recognized as a pattern in a sizable minority of women...

- Practicing social ostracism toward women they perceive as lower or higher status than them

- Ganging up on women they perceive as lower or higher status than them

- Underhanded compliments (Oh wow! You look so amazing. WhO dOeS yOuR mAkEuP?)

- Constant competition for male attention 

- Passive aggressiveness

- Fretfulness

- Neediness

- Jealousy 

- Getting together in a group and playing psychological mind games

- Internalized misogyny (ex. I only hang out with guys because there’s less drama.)

- Leaning too heavily on others for emotional support 

- Social drama = peak entertainment 

- Sourness toward service industry workers 

- Holding grudges

- Lack of accountability for actions 

- Seeking partnership for materialistic/image related reasons (aka gold digging, status seeking, fitting societal expectations)

- Focus towards appearances and materialism

- Expecting that happiness emerges from having the perfect relationship 

- Crippling self-esteem issues that translate to total self-absorption 

- Conspiratorial thinking (everyone’s out to get them, so they’re out to get everyone else)

- pettiness 

- Lack of ambition 

- Super strong disgust, fear, or anger reaction to anything even slightly unusual or unpleasant. Zero tolerance for discomfort.

Thanks for this list, it's very helpful.

It makes quite a good map for potential shadow material as well.

I can recognize a lot of those patterns within my experience and on other girls/women. A few are sticking still heavily with myself but a lot of them have been significantly diminishing over the years. And that somewhat already feels good. It makes me hopeful for the other ones.

I wonder, is it reasonable to expect to free oneself totally from them overtime or is it an overshoot?

[Preety_India]

Also toxic feminity should imply behaviours from society that suppress femininity by stereotyping it.

For example toxic masculinity includes telling a man not to cry(because it's considered unmanly )

 

Toxic femininity can include telling a woman to not get angry (because it's considered unwomanly )

 

[Preety_India]

14 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

You're gonna get all paranoid if you're always on the lookout for unhealthy behavior in a woman. 

I agree with this.

 

[Etherial Cat]

I haven't seen listed yet the objectification/commodification of oneself. Seems like a big one to omit.

[ll Ontology ll]

44 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Toxic traits do tend to differ based on the energy one most embodies.

When I wrote my list, I had women in mind (and very feminine men) in particular. And that’s because these are uniquely feminine toxic traits.

If I were making a toxic masculinity list, the list would be very different.

The toxic feminine tends to be self-attacking. The toxic masculine tends to attack a perceived “other”.

They are different. 

Yeah I disagree.

There's so many factors that come into play.

Tell me what is your sample size exactly? This just sounds based on intuitions and those intuitions are generated from what mental potions? They're made from the unclever hands of cultural influences, what the mind immediately projects.

The other distinction I'd make reference here to is quantity. Men in general should have a greater ability when it comes to tolerating the stress of a situation and acting strategically, a woman however will more likely lash out in the gossipping sense. Stress tolerance is the primary differentiating variable but yeah there's plenty of pansy ass men that an't got no balls that will play up the classic feminine male stereotype + they're probably also gay and maybe a hermaphrodite as well so can't decide whether to shoot or receive the loins, but that's just playing into the extremity of the stereotype.

Edited July 5, 2021 by ll Ontology ll

[ll Ontology ll]

They're culturally fitted to perfecting the art of flying monkeys that's for sure! So many dudes lost out in custody battles, marriages and you name it tampon commercial showing a woman how to make a man bleed through social warfare!

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, ll Ontology ll said:

Yeah I disagree.

There's so many factors that come into play.

Tell me what is your sample size exactly? This just sounds based on intuitions and those intuitions are generated from what mental potions? They're made from the unclever hands of cultural influences, what the mind immediately projects.

The other distinction I'd make reference here to is quantity. Men in general should have a greater ability when it comes to tolerating the stress of a situation and acting strategically, a woman however will more likely lash out in the gossipping sense. Stress tolerance is the primary differentiating variable but yeah there's plenty of pansy ass men that an't got no balls that will play up the classic feminine male stereotype + they're probably also gay and maybe a hermaphrodite as well so can't decide whether to shoot or receive the loins, but that's just playing into the extremity of the stereotype.

This isn't something that there are statistics on where I can give you a concrete sample size. As far as I know, scientists haven't yet studied that 'mean girl' personality type.

But I have experienced enough of life over the course of the past 32 years and enough interactions with girls and women to tell you that the traits that I mention are very common among girls and women, and not very common among boys and men. Ask any woman this. In fact, you can even ask most little girls. And they will tell you.

I had experiences with mean girls all through public school from 5-18. I experienced it in college in a totally different town. I've experienced it in casual get-togethers and workplaces. I experienced it as a teacher and substitute teacher in both female teachers and female students in EVERY single school I've taught at. I even have some family members that are like this. It is COMMON and to say it isn't or that guys do the same exact things is just reality denying.

Men have other forms of toxicity that are different... and this is the primary toxic element of society in general as there is an imbalance. But the toxic feminine still exists, it just only comes up usually in girl to girl tensions. It stays within a limited context as pettiness is one of the main qualities of it. And there are countless movies made about this dynamic. 

So, my sample size is ever single girl or woman I've ever met in my life. And the proportion of women who are like this are probably 20% of that sample size. It's a minority still, but the minority is sizable enough that every woman has a good handful of negative experiences.

But as I've said, women tend to express a lot of this only toward other women. Men as a group are usually exempted from experiencing women express many of these toxic traits... unless you're in a relationship or family situation with one of them. Women like this tend to direct their toxicity toward most women and just one guy.

Also, when a woman is going on the attack toward another woman, the men usually don't pick it up. It's like a dog whistle that only other women can hear. I remember one time that I was hanging out with my friend Joe, my (would-soon-be) boyfriend Jeff, my friend Andrew, and this girl Alicia (who I actually later became friends with when she matured a bit). 

But it was all too familiar. It was a situation I'd been in (not an exaggeration and probably an underestimate) a hundred times before. And I could sense she saw me as a threat, and she kept focusing in on me and making little remarks to criticize my looks or other things about me. She was jealous because she liked Jeff and Jeff and I were hanging out.

And my friend Joe, who had come with me, he and I stepped outside and I was trying to be chilled out and said nonchalantly, "Wow, that girl really hates me." And I just assumed that everyone would see what was going on.

But he was like, "Ugh! Why do you girls do this. She wasn't thinking anything about you." And I was so puzzled at how he couldn't see what was going on. 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But I have experienced enough of life over the course of the past 32 years and enough interactions with girls and women to tell you that the traits that I mention are very common among girls and women,

So it is perfectly okay for you to say that you've experienced mean girls in school and other places and that this is common in women, 

Yet it is toxic for a woman to say that she wants to be friends with men over women because she finds a lot of women as drama. So your experience of mean girls needs to be validated but at the same time a particular woman's experience with women's propensity to drama is to be negated and considered toxic ?

Why so ? Maybe that woman experienced too much drama with women and to cut that shit out decided to be friends with more men than women. 

If she doesn't want anymore toxic experiences with women, is she wrong ?

Quite puzzling.

 

[Karmadhi]

Toxic femininity would be a feminine girl that uses her charm to manipulate using sexual flirting and stuff like that. Also toxic femininity can be an overly emotional, almost neurotic behaviour in women or extreme neediness. To basically see what toxic "insert" is use this simple formula: Read the main characteristics of femininity or masculinity. Then take the characteristics and think of the most unhealthy manifestation of that characteristic. TA DA, there ya go.

Masculine characteristic: Dominant, when taken too far can become down right abuse dictator. Simple example of toxic masculinity.

Feminine characteristic: Emotional, when taken too far can become down right neurotic uncontrollable force of nature. Simple example of toxic femininity.

However most guys do not suffer from toxic femininity like females suffer from toxic masculinity. The first reason is because guys are a bit more visual so they are not attracted to toxic behaviour the same way females are attracted to. 

The biggest issue is overly picky girls that have other worldy standards, that is biggest issue females create. Toxic femininity comes way below as an issue.