where Leo is wrong?

[sethman]

where Leo is wrong about Sprituality, consciousness, science, Religion, culture, peoples, etc. 

What is his biggest loophole? 

[Moksha]

True teachers help you to remove the internal rubble that keeps you from the truth you already know. Instead of asking that is Leo's loophole, or any other teacher's loophole, ask whether they are helping you clear the collateral damage of your conditioning.

All that I or any teacher can do is reflect back to you who or what you are. An apple falls when the moment is right.

- Eckhart Tolle

Once the detritus is cleared, there is no need for any teaching. There is only being.

[sethman]

@Moksha studying the loophole helps you not to fall in to the same trap, by studying his Lacks you can understand which area you need to fill yourself. 

[Moksha]

13 hours ago, sethman said:

@Moksha studying the loophole helps you not to fall in to the same trap, by studying his Lacks you can understand which area you need to fill yourself. 

As with any teaching, take what resonates in this moment and disregard the rest. A teaching that seems like a loophole today could be an epiphany tomorrow.

Bhikkhus, the teaching is merely a vehicle to describe the truth. Don’t mistake it for the truth itself. A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. The finger is needed to know where to look for the moon, but if you mistake the finger for the moon itself, you will never know the real moon. The teaching is like a raft that carries you to the other shore. The raft is needed, but the raft is not the other shore. An intelligent person would not carry the raft around on his head after making it across to the other shore. Bhikkhus, my teaching is the raft which can help you cross to the other shore beyond birth and death. Use the raft to cross to the other shore, but don’t hang onto it as your property. Do not become caught in the teaching. You must be able to let it go.

- Thich Nhat Hanh

[Gesundheit2]

• Spirituality and consciousness: overly confident about his insights, which is a red flag for me. He bashes other teachers and intellectuals a lot.
• Politics: way too attached to SD, has a progressive bias, magical thinking (rationalized as turquoise).
• Science: idealist bias, which is inappropriate to say the least.
• People: he doesn't keep a circle of friends or interact with real people as far as I know.

That's all I've got for now.

[Hello from Russia]

I noticed he sometimes brushes off stuff he doesn't have much experience in. Some bright examples are witchcraft and astrology

[Jacob Morres]

i think there sometimes is an "absolute truth" ring to his perspective sometimes. but it is not by any means, the "right" perspective. not sure if thats just a me thing tho

sometimes his videos miss nuance too imo. like his "you shouldnt watch TV ever". i think that perspective lacks individual context to be true. black and white thinking is a trap 

hopefully that was clear enough

Edited July 6, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[thisintegrated]

Well, he can often seem very Orange/Yellow for someone claiming to be Turquoise.  It's like he's trying to make this into a cult about him and his ideas.  Anyone who disagrees with him is culled, and he'll brush off any criticisms as other people's ignorance.  Others here seem to be of the same view, "absolute truth ring to his perspective".

He literally calls people stupid in his videos, hoping people will see the nuance of what he means, but he won't tolerate the same kind of provocative ideas from others.

He's also way too serious!  If there's one problem with his videos and approach to everything, it's this.  And I don't think I need to explain what I mean..

And, lastly, his perspectives are very rigid, and often Orange.  He believes that to get past Orange, one must become rich, successful, etc. as it fits his understanding of how SD works.  But he conveniently never addresses people who are monks their whole lives and never even bother ascending up the spiral.  How would he answer this if anyone ever asked?  He'd call you ignorant and/or say that monks are forever stuck at Blue.  (Or at least that's what I've come to expect from him)

Edited July 6, 2021 by thisintegrated

[asifarahim]

Leo says if psychidelics is available everywhere then all gurus will be out of job.its like saying that if everyone is able to do full time research every single day then actualized.org and he would go out of job .because if someone is serious with this work then he would know what he needs to know everyone knows what leo knows and  then leo will not be purple cow.he will be ordinary cow.

This forum is very toxic to non psychidelic user.i have seem very intelligent,capable non druggie meditators leaving this forum because of how toxic it is for meditators

Leo says he is the most conscious being to ever exist in planet earth.if he was not that delusional and is no bullshit he would say "i think i am the most conscious guy on earth for 15minutes when i am high on 5meo.after 15 minutes i come down and i am a little bit more  conscious than any random guy on street."

 

If leo change his policies and stop poopoo ing other spiritual traditions then that would be owsome.otherwise actualized .org will get watered down

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by asifarahim

[sethman]

@thisintegrated I completely I agree with you. he says what he wants but he don't allow other to speak their mind. other people perspective is nothing and useless. 

if you say reality is moral, rational, etc. he would say you, you are being dogmatic. if you approach reality in religious ways he will says to you, you are dogmatic. he did not understand Religion-culture they serve as a prototype for Religion. Spritual methods serve Spritual living. what happen to actualized.org is he trun the Spritual living of Saint in to trainings. 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by sethman
missing word

[The Buddha]

He understands love but does not embody it. Someone with his level of realization is almost always very much more kind, compassionate and loving towards others and all beings.

[Thought Art]

Leo definitely tolerates a lot more than you think. Take a minute to think about this thread and many others that nah say him. I've been rude to him and nay sayed his teachings... Yet I am here.

Ya'll making things up in your head.

[DocWatts]

19 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

• Spirituality and consciousness: overly confident about his insights, which is a red flag for me. He bashes other teachers and intellectuals a lot.
• Politics: way too attached to SD, has a progressive bias, magical thinking (rationalized as turquoise).
• Science: idealist bias, which is inappropriate to say the least.
• People: he doesn't keep a circle of friends or interact with real people as far as I know.

That's all I've got for now.

I'd concur with this. As to Spiral Dynamics in particular:

As useful as Spiral Dynamics is for a shorthand way to refer to a particular worldview, it's also somewhat limited due to the fact that it attempts to merge several different types of development (such as cognitive complexity, emotional depth, etc; all of which may be at different levels) on to a single axis.

For example it doesn't have anything to say about individuals who are at a level of complexity and depth that's significantly above or below the Value Meme they've been imprinted with.

Which is important because how you enact that particular meme is going to depend on whether your understanding of it is flattened and simplified (if you're at a level of complexity and depth below your SD-Meme) or explicit and nuanced (vice versa).

The fact that it doesn't have a clear answer to whether a nuanced Blue thinker (such as Marcus Auerlous) is at a higher developmental stage than someone with who's been imprinted with a flattened version of Green (say a hippie teenager), is a good demonstration of this.

Which isn't a problem if you're using it as shorthand to refer to a particular sociological paradigm or to a set of cultural values that someone has been imprinted with, but it is inadequate if you try to stretch the model to encapsulate someone's overall development, where it becomes a form of subtle reductionism (or flatland holism when it's applied in this way, as Ken Wilber might call it).

Edited July 6, 2021 by DocWatts

[asifarahim]

@Thought Art critising leo is not the same as trying to take him down.i will be dead now if i didnot discover leo.its not an understatement.i and many thousand peoples life changed because of leo.i want leo to learn from the critism,to grow ,to expand,to be better version of himself .without feedback leo is a blind man.

[7thLetter]

For the most part I agree with and learn from pretty much everything he says in his videos. Personally, over the past several years of listening to him, there hasn't been a point where I would disagree or get offended by anything he has said, I keep an open mind. His teachings when it comes to metaphysics, epistemology, spirituality, psychology, etc. are almost flawless in my opinion.

But I do have one comment to make, being an Actualized.org forum member it seems to me that he somewhat has a lack in the area of finance, specifically investing & trading. Economics as well perhaps, although I don't have the full picture of his understanding.

I'm not the one to criticize Leo, but after listening to Leo's interpretation video I'm sure that he appreciates everyone's feedback (as long as its not a misinterpretation ). And obviously Leo isn't a financial guru, so it's understandable that he hasn't mastered all areas of life, he even admits it himself. Although, Leo does have a successful business of course and most likely makes more than most of us here, but there's always room for improvement.

In Leo's "Money Psychology" video, he mentions that his Dad was very entrepreneurial and tried all sorts of business schemes but had many failed attempts I believe, which lead to his Dad making money but then losing it all and trying over and over again, affecting their family's living situation in the process. I think that it's this point which leads Leo to be dismissive about these sorts of pursuits (investing, day trading, etc.) Leo also mentions the story of his family's financial situation in his recent video, "How Survival Shapes Who You Are."

So it seems to me that Leo basically holds this attitude of, "If my Dad failed with it then it doesn't work." Or these are just "money traps" designed to get your money. I doubt Leo has personal experience with trading, but he watched his Dad do it so now he holds strong opinions about it, which I would say are quite subjective. Opinions such as, "trading is the same thing as betting red or black on the roulette table" or in one video from what I remember he said something like "Don't play the stock market because there's someone else who has psychic ability who will play the markets better than you and get your money!" Maybe his Dad played the markets based on luck so this probably lead Leo to believe this.

Leo spreads this bitterness on the forums about day-trading by locking threads and sharing his opinions which leads to a couple other forum members adopting his beliefs on day-trading as well, now we got a handful of people who spit on anyone who mentions trading. It is understandable though that this is a high-consciousness forum and we should pursue higher conscious ways of making money, but it seems that day trading is singled out specifically because his Dad tried it one time and it didn't work so they had to light candles in the house. I don't see Leo bad-mouthing anyone talking about Amazon FBA or drop shipping, huh, weird.

Believe it or not, you can look at the fundamentals of why a security or commodity will go up in value and take trades based on the fundamentals. You can't study why the ball will hit red or black in roulette. In trading you could also study the psychology of where people are buying & selling by looking at certain supply & demand zones. Not possible in roulette.

Understandable though, day-trading specifically is difficult but not impossible to make a living from it, it takes skill and a lot of time put into it like anything else. I wouldn't exactly recommend day-trading but I do recommend swing-trading which is more of a longer-term approach, we might even call it shorter-term investing. I do agree that trading in general is gambling, but its a form of gambling, you can increase your odds of success with study and practice. Plus you can treat it as a game of luck, but it doesn't have to be that way. With Casino games, your odds are already laid out for you and there's no changing it.

It's also understandable that Leo promotes the idea of creating a source of income by providing value to the world rather than being a leech. But anything that allows us to earn money independently without a boss, I would consider a step above working a job, as long as you're not deliberately scamming people.

[RendHeaven]

On 7/5/2021 at 1:12 PM, Gesundheit2 said:

• Science: idealist bias, which is inappropriate to say the least.

Inappropriate?? Explain...

[RendHeaven]

21 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Well, he can often seem very Orange/Yellow for someone claiming to be Turquoise

He recently openly claimed to have a SD yellow bias.

I don't think he's ever announced himself to be fully SD turquoise... careful with the accusations!

21 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

He's also way too serious!  If there's one problem with his videos and approach to everything, it's this.  And I don't think I need to explain what I mean..

Excellent. This I agree with.

20 hours ago, asifarahim said:

This forum is very toxic to non psychidelic user.i have seem very intelligent,capable non druggie meditators leaving this forum because of how toxic it is for meditators

I was a non-psychedelic user following Leo for nearly 4 years. I faired perfectly fine. Did the sober practices where they were called for.

16 hours ago, The Buddha said:

He understands love but does not embody it. Someone with his level of realization is almost always very much more kind, compassionate and loving towards others and all beings.

INTP love looks different from more flashy, mainstream appearances of love.

 

[thisintegrated]

2 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

He recently openly claimed to have a SD yellow bias.

I don't think he's ever announced himself to be fully SD turquoise... careful with the accusations!

He did say "I'm now solidly in stage Turquoise", or something to that effect in a video.  And he's mentioned being Turquoise more than a few times in other videos.  I used to think he's Turquoise, but have become doubtful since coming to the forum around a year ago.  He's just got some lagging aspects which SD can't account for.

[sethman]

1 hour ago, RendHeaven said:

He recently openly claimed to have a SD yellow bias.

I don't think he's ever announced himself to be fully SD turquoise... careful with the accusations!

Excellent. This I agree with.

I was a non-psychedelic user following Leo for nearly 4 years. I faired perfectly fine. Did the sober practices where they were called for.

INTP love looks different from more flashy, mainstream appearances of love.

 

Leo is bad at Spritual words and concepts. he is teaching is inverted truth. his teaching is intuitive not mind. he thought mind as evil but the truth is reality is infinitely structured in infinite perfect mind. nihilism, meaningless come from lack of perfect mind. Reality is meaningful because it is God and has goal. 

I don't understand what actualized.org is? Spritual fellowship, Religion institutions, Religion agency, self actualization center or what? 

he didn't define what he does in actualized.org. sometimes he goes on Sprituality, sometimes culture, sometimes religion, sometimes science all in wrong ways. what he present as wisdom doesn't aspire generation, he simply talks. one thing he can do is, to revert back and correct every mistake he has done on sharing wisdom. or ignoring his mistakes and be irresponsible. 

my question to @Leo Gura is? 

1. why does Rationality is wrong? 

2. why does perception doesn't exist? 

3. why does morality is wrong? 

4. is culture artificially created, why culture artificially created? 

etc. 

Leo is great at exploring new topics and diverse ideas. but towards at giving a perfect conclusion he is weak. 

 

[7thLetter]

On 7/6/2021 at 2:27 AM, thisintegrated said:

Well, he can often seem very Orange/Yellow for someone claiming to be Turquoise.  It's like he's trying to make this into a cult about him and his ideas.  Anyone who disagrees with him is culled, and he'll brush off any criticisms as other people's ignorance.  Others here seem to be of the same view, "absolute truth ring to his perspective".

He literally calls people stupid in his videos, hoping people will see the nuance of what he means, but he won't tolerate the same kind of provocative ideas from others.

He's also way too serious!  If there's one problem with his videos and approach to everything, it's this.  And I don't think I need to explain what I mean..

And, lastly, his perspectives are very rigid, and often Orange.  He believes that to get past Orange, one must become rich, successful, etc. as it fits his understanding of how SD works.  But he conveniently never addresses people who are monks their whole lives and never even bother ascending up the spiral.  How would he answer this if anyone ever asked?  He'd call you ignorant and/or say that monks are forever stuck at Blue.  (Or at least that's what I've come to expect from him)

Lol dude, I'm reading this and its like you're just making this shit out of nowhere, just like how you did with Elon Musk.

I don't see the objectivity in your opinions. This seems more like an over-exaggeration of Leo's character rather than an objective opinion.

Edited July 7, 2021 by 7thLetter