Noticing Low Integrity Pickup Tactics from Leo and other "High Value Men"

[coca]

@Leo Gura Yo Leo u always talk about picking up girls at a night club sober as you dont drink, but docent that imply that the girls you are picking up have been drinking/ are intoxicated?

Leo Gura: Some yes, some no. Depends. Doesn't really matter. I prefer girls who don't drink or drink little.

I've lost plenty of girls simply because they drank so much they were too sick to have sex with.

Me:Dosent it matter if they are making decisions disinhibited while you are sober? If you've had some experience with alcohol you know it can definitely, well let's say, skew ones perceptions for the night and make girls way looser. Its legally rape. Also why would you sleep with drunk women if you don't promote pump/dump and have explicitly outlined that girls who drink are a dealbreaker when u are looking for a girlfriend, a lot of girls who go out to clubs are regular drinkers/smokers/party girls. I would just personally feel uncomfortable gaming drunk girls sober, Id wanna at least get on their playing field. 

 

I see many members on this forum touting ideas like "EMbrAce sExAal eNerGy with lOve and conSciousnNss!", and after reading their pickup tactics, it involves things like picking off vulnerable drunk girls, manipulating girls perception of you to appear appear more attractive and confident,(And not being interested or screening for a long term relationship with the women), when in reality you would be behaving differently if you were not pursing sex. Leo actually describes a lot of this behavior himself in his rant against the pickup community: 

I just feel like this forum has lost track of these higher integrity ideas, and is behaving like chimps, which is all fine and gravy, I only see a problem with it when we are students of "high integrity" putting in no effort to screen girls for long term compatibility before sleeping with them, and boasting about "lay counts" and how good your "game" is and how much of a "high value man" you are, which is only "high value" from the perspective of a woman's survival, so really the term "high value man" is synonymous with douchebag, as your spending so much time and energy to please women to get vagina, you could spend that time pursuing consciousness work and life purpose (which is the greater good for society and our communities and takes up a lot of time and often conflicts with your sexual interests). 

I have also noticed a lot of avoidance when I try to discuss these topics or bring them to light, people simply stop replying to the thread, as is the case with the example above^

 

 

[Cepzeu]

From what you wrote, it seems you have some judgements about sex. People are free to have consensual sex and people enjoy having sex. There is also a difference between being drunk and having a drink or two. A drink can loosen someone up and break down shyness, but you are still in control. But someone who is shitfaced is gonna be stumbling around and vomiting everywhere - not someone you'd want to have sex with, unless you were a sexual predator to begin with.

Plus, we are all chimps lol, sex is fun and we want to have sex. You are being a white knight by espousing how everyone needs to connect to their higher values and have integrity and be gentlemanly when courting the opposite sex.

I may be wrong, because I'm just taking what you wrote here at face value, but happy to discuss.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Cepzeu

[coca]

@Cepzeu You must have not read this part 

I just feel like this forum has lost track of these higher integrity ideas, and is behaving like chimps, which is all fine and gravy, I only see a problem with it when we are students of "high integrity" putting in no effort to screen girls for long term compatibility before sleeping with them, and boasting about "lay counts" and how good your "game" is and how much of a "high value man" you are, which is only "high value" from the perspective of a woman's survival, so really the term "high value man" is synonymous with douchebag, as your spending so much time and energy to please women to get vagina, you could spend that time pursuing consciousness work and life purpose (which is the greater good for society and our communities and takes up a lot of time and often conflicts with your sexual interests). 

[Sunchild]

19 minutes ago, Cepzeu said:

From what you wrote, it seems you have some judgements about sex.

How about a little fire, scarecrow.

[coca]

@Sunchild Where are my judgements about sex? I literally called it "fine and gravy", did y'all just skip over the second part of my post ?

@Cepzeu You must have not read this part 

I just feel like this forum has lost track of these higher integrity ideas, and is behaving like chimps, which is all fine and gravy, I only see a problem with it when we are students of "high integrity" putting in no effort to screen girls for long term compatibility before sleeping with them, and boasting about "lay counts" and how good your "game" is and how much of a "high value man" you are, which is only "high value" from the perspective of a woman's survival, so really the term "high value man" is synonymous with douchebag, as your spending so much time and energy to please women to get vagina, you could spend that time pursuing consciousness work and life purpose (which is the greater good for society and our communities and takes up a lot of time and often conflicts with your sexual interests). 

[Cepzeu]

Most people have terrible "long-term compatibility", don't forget that women are chimps too and have their own problems, just like men.

Yeah I agree with you that boasting about those things is not very high value/high integrity. Boasting comes from low self-esteem. There is value is mentioning it to further a discussion or accentuate a point or relay and experience. 

Well.... women fall for douchebags. If you define "high value man" by how many women he sleeps with then yeah, they are likely to be a douchebag. But you can define "high value man" in many ways e.g. does he contribute to his community, does he have a higher purpose, does he add value to society. A man who is truly high value is rare. Out of 100 guys, 2% are going to be very confident with attracting women and only 0.01% of those guys are actually going to be wholesome, considerate, high consciousness etc. most of those 2% will be confident, edgy, and dickish. In my experience.

[coca]

@Cepzeu Right nothing I said contradicts that, I am simply making a point about how members on this community define the word "High Value Man", how does any of this invalidate what I said or permit pump/dumping drunk girls while you are sober?

How convenient and easy to just dismiss it all as "people have bad long term compatibility anyway", "women are chimps too" so they deserve it and we can continue pumping and dumping, my whole point is about raising our integrity, as I feel like that is one of the key reasons we should even be interested in this work, it just seems like there's NO EFFORT being applied AT ALL.

What if you actually end up finding a girl you really liked and now you have to deal with all of her excess insecurities and trauma from being pump and dumped while she was drunk by horny sober wolves?

[Cepzeu]

I mean.... its a bit of a stretch to go from meeting people while sober and having casual sex to pumping and dumping by horny sober wolves. Again, you make it out like men's desire to have sex is somehow evil, whereas women who have sex are victims of men's horniness. But I agree with you that pumping and dumping without care is not a very high consciousness behaviour because of the hurt it causes. Obviously I have not read every topic on this forum but I assure you that those who define "high value men" as those who go around pumping and dumping without care are a vocal minority. 

[coca]

@Cepzeu When did I mention meeting people while sober and having casual sex???, I am referring to the specific example in my post, as the guys who boast about "lay counts" and having "amazing game", often use night game such as bars and nightclubs to do their activities. There was nothing said about meeting people while sober, and having casual sex, as if that where the actual level of integrity these keyboard high value men would be operating from, they wouldn't need to go out to bars and night clubs to prey on drunk girls to get laid. 

Check your own projections and read my post carefully before projecting this "angry incel trying to prove that mens desire for sex is evil"notion onto me, as I simply am talking about this specific situation in the context of actualized.org, and raising ones integrity/consciousness.

MY point is that it is simply impossible to have a high lay count without high social/financial status or low integrity & manipulation. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by coca

[Cepzeu]

The only specific example you used is what Leo said. The one you quoted in the first post. There is nothing he said that showed he goes around preying on drunk girls - in fact he specifically mentions that he doesn't like drunk girls.

You don't mention any other specific examples in this thread.

What's wrong with gong to nightclubs to practice game? That's literally what nightclubs are for. If by example you meant the general vibe of the forum, then unfortunately you come to the realisation that without going out and gaming for a bit and realising it's not very high consciousness, your consciousness doesn't grow. You can't upload your high consciousness into someone else, you can only guide them to fuck it up and learn from their own mistakes. 

[coca]

@Cepzeu Leo specifically mentions that he dosent date girls that drink. He will still sleep  with, and pursue a drunk girl for sex, as long as she didnt "drank so much they were too sick to have sex with."

Theres nothing wrong with going to nightclubs to practice game, but its creepy and low integrity to be the only sober person around a bunch of drunk young people especially that if are not interested in anything beyond sex, that is literally defined as legal rape, if you directly mention to any of the girls that you were the only sober person, they would not sleep with you. Also, nobody ever mentions about ATTEMPTING screening these drunk girls for long term compatibility, its how fast can you sleep with her, because "woman dont take u serious before sex".

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by coca

[Cepzeu]

Yeah I agree that that is creepy. But if you don't drink, then not drinking in an environment where people drink is actually high integrity haha. But no, jokes aside, you are right in some sense that a big difference in your level of drunkenness with your end-of-the-day companion is creepy. But as long as they can consent then its fine. I'm not sure there is such a thing as legal rape, I could not find a definition with a google search, I'm not sure what you mean. If a person is drunk enough to where they are inebriated and can't consent and a sexual act happens, then yes that is rape. 

regarding screening, Leo mentions it heaps. But I imagine the point of screening would not come up frequently in an online forum topic about picking up chicks. You have to understand that people asking such questions are young guys with next to no sexual experience. Long term compatibility is not even on their radar, they just need their needs met, and pickup is how guys who are not socialised properly do it. It's not their fault, per se. It's the society we grow up in, where we expect guys to lead and know what to do, when we don't even bother teaching them in school. A sick society breeds sick people. 

[Thought Art]

"@Leo Gura Yo Leo u always talk about picking up girls at a night club sober as you don't drink, but docent that imply that the girls you are picking up have been drinking/ are intoxicated?"

It doesn't imply anything. You have to actually be there, or be the girl to know what is going on.

Leo is saying that he doesn't sleep with drunk girls. That seems consensual and conscious.

If you are out partying and want to pick up, you want to be able to enjoy the company of the person you are with. If they are shit faced it's no fun. 

He literally said he doesn't go for drunk girls. What are you making up in your own mind and creating a problem for?

Now, If Leo said "I prefer them drunk as fuck so I can easily have my way with them" That is a totally different story.

"Yup, just get her drunk as you possibliy fucking can and you are good to go"  NO!

Now, his wording was a little off that he used the point that "they are too sick to sleep with" instead of saying "they are too drunk to consent"... Idk, his wording could be more careful I agree with you there.

I think you are over blowing that tbh. I see your point but. Humans can go out party, have sex with each other and enjoy each others company without you getting all pissy about it. 

You are over blowing one comment.

Leo enjoyed pick up, and having fun. Adults can drink etc and enjoy themselves in their own way.

Instead of attacking Leo and making him out to be evil and of ill intent, why don't you ask him for more clarity. You have no experience of how Leo or anyone else on the forums acts while doing dating, pickup or clubbing. I think it's important to realize that you are imagining all of that.

I am sure people get drunk, meet each other and have sex all the time. I don't see rape culture on this forum at all and I see conversations of vary degrees of integrity and in variable contexts all over the forum. I think our minds sometimes see things that bother us and we zoom in on them and make them bigger than they actually are. 

Not defending anyones actions. I don't know how anyone on this forum or even Leo acts in their personal life.

If Leo, myself or any other people in general aren't respecting consent then they need to check themselves and correct their behaviour. However, I don't think people are doomed or should be condemned for making mistakes. We are all imperfect.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Thought Art

[coca]

@Thought Art Dude, did you literally stop reading at the next line?

Leo Gura: Some yes, some no. Depends. Doesn't really matter. I prefer girls who don't drink or drink little.

I've lost plenty of girls simply because they drank so much they were too sick to have sex with.

[Harlen Kelly]

@coca Are you religious?

[coca]

@Harlen KellyDude, I am literally on actualized.org, the epitome of anti-dogma,  and you are asking if im religious , did you even bother to read my post? your the same guy that asked if I had experience with women on the original post, nice straw man. 

@Cepzeu That is all well understood, but Leo advocates for not drinking on the forum, and advocates for nightclubs/bars as places to go socialize, but the majority of people there are drunk/there to get drunk.

[Harlen Kelly]

@coca Have you ever got the chance to regularly socialize with men and women in social settings?

Edited July 4, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[coca]

@Harlen Kelly Ad Hominem.

[Cepzeu]

@coca yeah but you can go to a nightclub and have a drink and not be blackout drunk. The majority of people will be drinking but only a minority of people will be drinking excessively. Leo advocates for going out and socialising, and not drinking cause it's bad for your health. You can still talk to people who are tipsy lol. I don't see why its such a big deal? Will there be a few random predators and a few super wasted girls, yeah maybe, but most people are there to have fun and socialise. Literally no one cares if you're drunk or if you're sober. Sober drivers go to hang with their mates all the time... what now that they're sober they can't flirt with a tipsy girl and go have fun later?? rape = not ok. having fun sober and with others and engaging with someone with their consent = totally ok.

I just get the general vibe from your writing (and it's just your writing I'm not saying anything about you as a person, I don't know you) that you think everyone in a nightclub is either a wasted drunk girl or a creepy predator pickup guy. a nightclub is 99.9% random normal people having fun. I could be wrong about my assumptions about you, but in that case you need to have a look at the way you communicate through text, because multiple members have mentioned thing's I've said previously, which you called projections. That's just my observation, I'm not criticising, I don't know the real you.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Cepzeu

[coca]

@Cepzeu Alcohol affects women differently (more severely) than men and lowers their inhibitions severely. 

If alcohol didnt lower your inhibitions, nobody would go out to drink and you would just talk to girls like normal people lol 

Most girls regret the guy they had a one night stand with, as when they sober up their inhibitions come back. 

The whole point of going out during night game, is to be in a room of disinhibited girls, or you would just approach them and sleep with them during the day. 
 

Again, im saying in the context of integrity, and the concepts we study on actualized.org 

How is preying on girls with lower inhibition=high integrity 

 

Because its a lot easier to just project your own notions of me as a person (ad hominem), than to actually read and refute my arguments. 

I do not think and have never stated that everyone in a nightclub is a predator or wasted girl, I literally mentioned that it was cool and gravy, but I think that one should be crystal clear about their tactics when u stand here and talk about high integrity and love and consciousness

Edited July 4, 2021 by coca