Obsession with 'The Next Level'

[ivankiss]

As far back as I can remember; I've been always looking for taking things to that next level. No matter which area or domain.

It was always deeper. Better. Higher. Clearer. More precise. More defined. More perfect.

It could be said that I struggled with perfectionism to some degree. But I think I managed to turn that into an advantage.

Some might say that seeking to reach the higher level is an egoic thing. A selfish agenda. And they might not be wrong in saying that.

But I don't see anything inherently wrong or dangerous with the seeking energy. I think it serves a very important purpose. Has a very important role. I think it should be integrated and expressed in a healthy way. Not extinguished.

Seeking, attaining, accomplishing, reaching higher and deeper... All of that is relevant and even necessary for me to go through at this point. No doubt about it.

What I'm interested in - if anyone feels like sharing their opinion - is how to navigate these waters? What is your strategy? How does your process look like? Is it just simply a matter of trial and error? Or is there more to it?

Do you push full force until you get there? Do you sit back, relax and let it come to you? How do you get exactly the results you want (and even better) ? 

Thanks!

[4201]

11 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

As far back as I can remember; I've been always looking for taking things to that next level.

You might find value in pondering on why that is. Would you have this tendency if you were the last human on earth?

12 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Some might say that seeking to reach the higher level is an egoic thing. A selfish agenda. And they might not be wrong in saying that.

Does it matter more what they say than how you feel though?

 

Personally, I'm a big fan of chasing greatness.  Do what feels fucking great!  I'm using a synonym here but greatness or "the next level" are really the same thing.

But then fear about you being judged by others may turn your love for "the next level" things into an obsession, if you imagine that this greatness is necessary to be accepted by others. "Ha I need to meet others expectations of me, otherwise I'll be a loser!"

The truth is, it's quite rare for others to have such high expectations of you and most of the time, you are the one imagining the expectations that others might have of you.

This is the business of preserving a self identity which has been attached to the idea of "greatness" or "the next level". At first it felt great but soon enough it turns into a job. Now I have to do what's needed to stay great in the eyes of others. 

You don't even need a strategy, if you follow feeling, you'll be as great as you can be. But when fear and insecurity comes into play, we are reluctant to feel (by fear of not being as expected). You don't need to make a "decision" and either identify with "being a relaxed person" or "being a accomplishing person". No identity about it, is the greatest of all, that's the "next level". A level in which you can be both highly accomplishing and highly relaxed at the same time.

Those are my thoughts.

[ivankiss]

@4201 Very cool. Thanks!

In my case; I don't think it involves others as much as it is about having to prove something to myself. 

That I can. That I have what it takes. That I am capable of doing great things.

That's the journey I'm on. I'm enjoying it, very much. Learning, growing and expanding at lightning speed. Getting less and less caught up in moments of stagnation, insecurity, fear and doubt. I'm confident about what I want from life now and I feel more and more in alignment with it.

Impatience arises at times, but it's not too bad.

[4201]

58 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

In my case; I don't think it involves others as much as it is about having to prove something to myself. 

That I can. That I have what it takes. That I am capable of doing great things.

I struggle with very similar issues so my POV may still be immature on this, so be cautious of my bias  

This way of saying "I won't believe in myself until I accomplish X" is really similar to saying "I won't be happy until X happens". Yet if I would be to point to you every achievements you had in your life, you'd probably be dismissive of them, saying it's not enough, you need X to fully believe in yourself / be happy.

This is quite clearly a trap though, because once X happens, will you really be happy or will you just again be dismissive of X and turn to Y? (Y being the next achievement to fullfill) 

You might say, well, all of this business is good because I want to achieve X, Y and Z! But this mentality of not believing in oneself or being doubtful about oneself is not helping achieving X, Y or Z. You'd probably achieve X, Y and Z more effectively if you didn't doubt yourself and had nothing to prove. Furthermore it's unnecessary suffering, you might as well do without it.

Not believing in oneself is quite absurd in a sense yet it's something I often fall for as well. I'm really not immune to it. Not believing in oneself is quite clearly a thought though. If you clear the mind there no longer is any doubt about oneself. It's just a matter of not identifying with the thought that says "I need to prove something" or the more meta "I'm stuck believing I need to prove something". At least in my experience none of those doubts are actual.

Nice topic honestly. I might just be projecting my issues onto you but in the worse case it was useful for me to think about that hahaha

Edited July 4, 2021 by 4201

[MuadDib]

@ivankiss I have similar tendencies. In the beginning, I would say that a lot of my striving was driven out of a sense of lack or insecurity. After accomplishing a bunch of shit and feeling empty afterwards, or failing to achieve things and feeling worse about myself  I gradually learnt to heal my insecurities and reassess my metrics for what I deemed success and failure and where I derived my self-esteem.

I think there is the natural tendency within all egoic states to be constantly comparing oneself to others or to some ideal. The egoic mind is a comparative mind after all, and it isn't possible to strive for something 'greater' without making comparisons and deeming something as being 'lesser' by default in a dualistic sense.

I think this is causing problems for people in this day and age where we are over-communicated and bombarded with images of people who are achieving perfection or close to perfection in almost any domain in life, whether it's health, sexuality, wealth, spiritual attainment, knowledge, athletics, skill in some area etc. as by definition, the greatest in a field naturally rank highest in peoples attention. It creates a false sense that as individuals we are pathetic underachievers when in reality everyone is average at most things and perhaps exceptional or overachieving in one or 2 things if they're lucky.

I have found the trick (for me) is maintaining consciousness about this comparative process. It's important to be mindful that it's foolish to compare yourself to others as we each have different innate talents, abilities, years of practice, handicaps and values/goals. I strive to look to others for inspiration but keep the sources of my self-esteem and self-worth linked to ontological understanding and insights (spiritual self-worth).

It's also important to be mindful that if you are comparing yourself to a perfectionist ideal, by definition, you will ALWAYS be 'lesser' and to not let this dictate your sense of self-worth as it will infect the entire process. Finally recognizing that achieving anything in its own right won't bring any satisfaction, the journey towards achievement will have struggles and suffering as well and so, enjoyment can only be found in the entire process in a holistic sense. Every step of the climb on the way to the summit is what you want to savour because it's all interlinked. It's about the journey, not the destination, but without a destination, you wouldn't have a journey etc...

As for the balance between pushing and relaxing, I think it's a good rule of thumb that if you're not making progress you simply aren't trying hard enough. Usually working harder IS working smarter, the hard way is the easy way etc. But it's by no means a panacea and of course, when you reach the inevitable blocks that willpower and force won't overcome, a relaxed approach needs to be adopted to find lateral solutions or to readjust your goalposts.

Last night I watched the movie 'soul' and I enjoyed it so much. It basically covers all of this in a very beautiful way. It makes a good contrast to the movie 'whiplash' which we could say is the alternative journey to the same destination but driven from a pathological narcissistic foundation.

Even the process of 'striving' is itself a journey and I'm sure my perspective on this will evolve with time, but for now this is where I'm at with this. What else you gonna do? Sit around and not achieve your potential? ... well ok nothing wrong with that I guess as long as you are also free of comparisons and are just chilling in a state of being or whatever, otherwise, you will definitely suffer as your pent up potential slips past you and turns into morbidity, despair and regret.

A video essay I enjoyed that covered similar themes:
 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by MuadDib

[WaveInTheOcean]

[ivankiss]

@MuadDib @4201 Dudes... Fucking epic stuff right there. Amazing insights. Good for you.

My mind cannot handle this thread atm. Will come back with a full reply.

Thanks!

@WaveInTheOcean Ahh, yes, true, true.

But is it... the entire Truth? 

[peanutspathtotruth]

Quite a good question! I resonate with what you say, that there is a true inner drive that is not simply stemming from "the illusion of separation". I feel called by the universe to dive deep into the infinite library of its mysteries and to never stop exploring it (myself). It's the truest desire I've ever felt (and in essence, the only one I feel comes from truth itself). To answer your question, I have no idea - figuring that out myself at the moment. But it feels like a mixture of diving deep into higher states of consciousness, integrating love and wisdom into the "person", surrendering completely to God and being playful and humorous at the same time. Discipline in translating the seeking energy into actual practice is often a shortcoming for me, so I'm working on that. But some others might have plenty of discipline but blind spots or a lack of ease. I feel like this could be unique to every being.

[Nahm]

@ivankiss

Believing seeking energy could be expressed in a healthy way is like believing the denial of well being could lead to health. 

[WelcometoReality]

On 2021-07-04 at 3:48 AM, ivankiss said:

It was always deeper. Better. Higher. Clearer. More precise. More defined. More perfect.

It could be said that I struggled with perfectionism to some degree. But I think I managed to turn that into an advantage.

Maybe the next level is the letting go of perfectionism? Why do you feel the need to be perfect? Might be to private to answer on a forum but maybe worth contemplating.

[Consilience]

8 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@ivankiss

Believing seeking energy could be expressed in a healthy way is like believing the denial of well being could lead to health. 

Wouldn’t any and all forms of creation be an expression of some type of feeling we may accurately label as “seeking?” To create anything requires a movement from what isn’t to what is, within one flavor of reality or another. Moving a thought into a physical manifestation, such as cooking a lovely dinner, is seeking no? Yet calling the creation of the lovely unhealthy, or that this act of creation couldn't ever be healthy, seems extreme. Could you elaborate on what you mean?

[Nahm]

11 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Wouldn’t any and all forms of creation be an expression of some type of feeling we may accurately label as “seeking?”

No. 

11 minutes ago, Consilience said:

To create anything requires a movement from what isn’t to what is, within one flavor of reality or another. Moving a thought into a physical manifestation, such as cooking a lovely dinner, is seeking no?

No. 

11 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Yet calling the creation of the lovely unhealthy, or that this act of creation couldn't ever be healthy, seems extreme. Could you elaborate on what you mean?

How do you integrate seeking energy?

[LastThursday]

On 04/07/2021 at 2:48 AM, ivankiss said:

Do you push full force until you get there? Do you sit back, relax and let it come to you? How do you get exactly the results you want (and even better) ? 

Knowing how to get results is really about asking what is the source of the seeking. In my case it's curiosity, I'm just itching to know all the time and that causes me to seek. But once I know a thing, the curiosity stops. So to improve my seeking I have to ferret out novelty or at least follow a chain of curiosity. But I realised that there are other sources of seeking, say through repetition (a.k.a. mastery), or quietude, or journalling. I think what I'm saying is to broaden the ways of seeking, it will give you greater/better/deeper results.

[ivankiss]

That's some next level shit guys... 

[4201]

54 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@ivankiss

Believing seeking energy could be expressed in a healthy way is like believing the denial of well being could lead to health. 

If I'm hungry and I seek food, isn't that seeking energy?

Isn't "healthy vs unhealthy" of the body? If you seek something that exists (banana, nuts, my glasses, keys) it's quite healthy.

[VeganAwake]

The seeking energy needs to be so strong that it ends with the revelation that there was nothing to find and no one in which to find it.

"Do not seek illumination unless you seek it as a man whose hair is on fire seeks a pond".

- Sri Ramakrishna

Edited July 5, 2021 by VeganAwake

[mandyjw]

If you go into an art gallery to steal a painting to take home with you, it's a different experience than going in to see some art. 

What do you expect to take with you when you go? 

[Leo Gura]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:48 PM, ivankiss said:

Do you sit back, relax and let it come to you?

This strategy doesn't really work for generating results in life.

If you carefully study people who have achieved exceptional results, they didn't just sit back and relax. They worked their asses off 60-80 hours per week for decades. This is usually what is required to generate an exceptional result in any area of life, including spirituality. Especially spirituality.

This also perfectly explains why most people get such shitty results in life. They simply aren't willing or able to work for it.

Now, if you don't care about getting exceptional results, then that's fine. But be honest with yourself. You probably do care, and you probably want the fruits of it, especially when you see others eating that juicy fruit.

[Nahm]

@ivankiss

The passion, vision, spirit, etc feels truly awesome. You had me at obsession.   “Seeking energy” as a label feels like a pinching off of energy. Might be better served without that particular framing, but that’s just me. Keep kickin ass in any case. ?? 

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

If I'm hungry and I seek food, isn't that seeking energy?

Could also be hunger and seeking food. Could just be ‘eating’. Could also be nothing. Could be a heroic quest within a mystical adventure within, as, with and of energy.  ‘Seeking energy’ seems to imply un-whole without. There is much to be said for the subtleties of loa, which is not a mindset of seeking, and is also not anti-action. 

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

Isn't "healthy vs unhealthy" of the body?

It’s perspectival. 

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

If you seek something that exists (banana, nuts, my glasses, keys) it's quite healthy.

What’s sought in the op / thread?

[Zeroguy]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This strategy doesn't really work for generating results in life.

If you carefully study people who have achieved exceptional results, they didn't just sit back and relax. They worked their asses off 60-80 hours per week for decades. This is usually what is required to generate an exceptional result in any area of life, including spirituality. Especially spirituality.

This also perfectly explains why most people get such shitty results in life. They simply aren't willing or able to work for it.

Now, if you don't care about getting exceptional results, then that's fine. But be honest with yourself. You probably do care, and you probably want the fruits of it, especially when you see others eating that juicy fruit.

Yeah. 

I agree. 

Also discipline.

About personal development it's this simple. 

Take a look at your own bedroom tells everything about you. 

Zero meditated his ass off, it didn't come from watching videos of non dualistic teachers. 

Did also taken psychs can't lie but it is actual work. Has price to it but it pays off. 

I agree with Leo not because I like him or would like to take his teachings as some belief system but have actual confirmations of this stuff. 

What Leo Teaches is true.