Help with the mechanisms of unobserved universes, and natural selection

[RMQualtrough]

I believe it can be legit proven that the external world cannot exist as a thing at all.

It must be nothing. I do think this can actually be shown. AKA there is no external world.

When perceptions take place, the nothing becomes a thing, e.g. shapes, colors, or even a simple recognition of a state or face.

I do believe that the universe predates conscious experience unless particles have conscious experience. If they don't, then there is no perception of the world and thus the world remains as a nothing for the time. But we can track back through time and find out what happened prior to the existence of conscious experience (barring the possibility outlined).

Secondly, given the external world is nothing and takes form by perception, what exactly causes natural selection to take place? If solid objects are nothing why could we not perceive them as such and walk right through them?

...

The non-existence of the external world leaves two things I'd like help understanding. See if you can:

1) Describe the mechanism behind how the big bang etc existed and events took place prior to the existence of minds which could perceive the surroundings.

2) Describe how and why evolution takes place when the external world is nothing outside of perception.

...

I can see that my alteted perceptions do not change the results me nor my friends get. But what if I hallucinated an object was not just farther away but not there at all? Would I not walk into it?

These are the only questions I have. If I understand how this works my philosophical outlook is basically complete.

Edited July 2, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Adamq8]

I suggesr you look up Bernardo Kastrup.

We are dissociated alters of the Universal mind.

Thats why we cant read each others thoughts etc.

But it is a phenomena field of conciousness, so big bang did not happen in a "nothing"

We have alot of evidence for the multiple personality disorders which do not know about the other alters in their own mind.

Evolution happen since it is outside our individual minds but it is how the Universal mind looks like from the outside, just how "inner concious activity" looks like brain functions when observed from the outside.

Evolution is probably for the Universal mind to become meta concious, unfathomable suffering has been put into producing beings with meta conciousness IE self awareness. 

He can explain this much better but his theory definetly holds water when combining subjective and objective phenomena, he still believes in an external world which is the Universal mind and it is nothing like this "world"

If we would see the truth we would dissolve thats why evolution favor survival and not the truth, there is evidence for this.

Those being that get to see the truth and the world as it is in it self dies.

There is never an unobserved universe or reality.

 

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

If you look at the universe you see an obvious pattern: the movement towards greater complexity. Let's imagine a big bang. a number of protons, neutrons and more particles appear, all apparently made of energy. all of them begin to interact with each other, they group together until they form stars, where more complex elements are formed, then life, that evolves from the cell to the human brain, which in turn is an enormous creative force, capable of understanding, which perhaps can create an "artificial" intelligence. it is obvious that reality is alive, it creates itself. We are one more manifestation of the enormous intelligence of reality, in its creative willing. we are the reality itself, which is only one.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Adamq8 said:

I suggesr you look up Bernardo Kastrup.

We are dissociated alters of the Universal mind.

Thats why we cant read each others thoughts etc.

But it is a phenomena field of conciousness, so big bang did not happen in a "nothing"

We have alot of evidence for the multiple personality disorders which do not know about the other alters in their own mind.

Evolution happen since it is outside our individual minds but it is how the Universal mind looks like from the outside, just how "inner concious activity" looks like brain functions when observed from the outside.

Evolution is probably for the Universal mind to become meta concious, unfathomable suffering has been put into producing beings with meta conciousness IE self awareness. 

He can explain this much better but his theory definetly holds water when combining subjective and objective phenomena, he still believes in an external world which is the Universal mind and it is nothing like this "world"

If we would see the truth we would dissolve thats why evolution favor survival and not the truth, there is evidence for this.

Those being that get to see the truth and the world as it is in it self dies.

There is never an unobserved universe or reality.

I'm familiar with Bernardo. What I'm suggesting is that even in a field of consciousness, if experience does not exist, there is no act of perception since experiencer requires experienced. Else that field of consciousness is resting in oblivious deep sleep. Perception does not exist without something which can perceive.

Now when the big bang happened, I am guessing that at that very point there were no things which could perceive, and without perceptions, things exist as nothing. Perception makes them something. So they are all nothing, in nowhere. Yet formed the entire universal space.

There is no external world right? So when all of this was happening, without being perceived the atoms etc were all nothing and nowhere. And I am wondering how the universe formed galaxies etc without any perception taking place?

[Inliytened1]

27 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

 

There is no external world right? So when all of this was happening, without being perceived the atoms etc were all nothing and nowhere. And I am wondering how the universe formed galaxies etc without any perception taking place?

Your getting it....it's all imaginary.

[WaveInTheOcean]

 

[RMQualtrough]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Your getting it....it's all imaginary.

Right but how or why is it happening before a conscious perception of the material world exists? Because to experience something you have to be localized and finite. Say there is a universe with just chairs? Without a perceiver that entire universe is simply nothing. So how can it be going through cosmological changes?

Once the nothingness is perceived it becomes qualia. If we finite selves perceive a wall,  even some animal with no senses would fly straight into it.

It could be perceived totally different and the model of reality would still work for that creature (eg it could seem longer or shorter, wider or narrower) but the creature's own physical form stretches etc with it so the model still works.

But there is no wall there. So creatures which perceive nothing, why don't they go through the wall?

[Inliytened1]

20 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Right but how or why is it happening before a conscious perception of the material world exists

 

What if how and why are also imagined by the so called "perceiver"

What if perception was also an illusion and that the perceiver (subject) and the object (perceived) was an illusion and could be collapsed? What would it Be if all separation collapsed and was seen to have never actually occurred.  And what was revealed was Truth or pure actuality itself?   And what if Actuality itself could not be described but can only BE because describing it requires the duality of subject and object?

[RMQualtrough]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

What if how and why are also imagined by the so called "perceiver"

What if perception was also an illusion and that the perceiver (subject) and the object (perceived) was an illusion and could be collapsed? What would it Be if all separation collapsed and was seen to have never actually occurred.  And what was revealed was Truth or pure actuality itself?   And what if Actuality itself could not be described but can only BE because describing it requires the duality of subject and object?

Well really you can say "how or why" is also imaginary about basically anything, but Leo is able to sit for hours explaining the mechanisms behind how and why nothing is everything. So I think there is a how and why, I just haven't found it.

If those things were collapsed (subject and object) there would be absolutely no experience at all, and because there is no external world everything seemingly external would be nothing??? Not even consciousness (except the Advaita type conscious Brahman which is really nothing, but equivalent to consciousness in deep sleep so no difference).

Unless quarks etc are conscious in some form, then I cannot grasp the mechanism behind the movements of the universe of literal nothing (the state of the universe before it is perceived).

I also feel that after all localized minds end in this universe, it will continue as science predicts down to the last dying star BUT, all those things it is predicting, despite happening, are then nothing.

Why is it that a bird with zero perceptions of a wall cannot fly through it considering the wall is not actually there? I understand the wall being perceived differently but still working as a barrier, for me that is very easy to grasp. But what if an animal did not perceive it at all? And nothing else is there to perceive the wall to watch the animal fly straight into it?

The external world as mentioned cannot exist, I think that can be proven (that it is nothing at all) through various means. The simplest of all being that things cannot be "like" anything separate from a perceiver, and the only thing that isn't "like" anything is literal absolute total nothing. But then what are the evolutionary pressures causing us to experience solids etc etc, if it is purely nothing.

I am positive there is a how and why just as there is for literally every other aspect of this philosophy.

Edited July 2, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Well really you can say "how or why" is also imaginary about basically anything, but Leo is able to sit for hours explaining the mechanisms behind how and why nothing is everything. So I think there is a how and why, I just haven't found it.

 

 

 

It's Infinity but Infinity is Infinity and does not require a how or a why.  In fact Infinity creates the how or the why.  It's pure magic.  That's the beauty of it.  That's Absolute Love.  It will absolutely melt you.  But it's something you just have to become (i.e. when consciousness becomes conscious of itself it becomes itself..the I AM.....:)

 

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

I believe it can be legit proven that the external world cannot exist as a thing at all

 

Well of course I believes it. That’s the whole game. 

[RMQualtrough]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's Infinity but Infinity is Infinity and does not require a how or a why.  In fact Infinity creates the how or the why.  It's pure magic.  That's the beauty of it.  That's Absolute Love.  It will absolutely melt you.  But it's something you just have to become (i.e. when consciousness becomes conscious of itself it becomes itself..the I AM.....:)

There must be a universe of floating chairs. But chairs aren't a thing unless perceived. Put a human in the dimension and they see chairs. Now, was it always chairs even before the perceiver arrived? Was that nothingness a bunch of nothing-chairs waiting to be perceived? If a nothing-chair crashed into another nothing-chair and there was no perceiver, what happens?

[Zeroguy]

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Well of course I believes it. That’s the whole game. 

last video.

[Zeroguy]

From within the imaginition that was I or self is.

@cetus really putted it nicely grunts. ROFLMAO ,grunts need societies states countries and everything else.

I am right you are wrong,wars all sorts of devilry from rape ,murders to stealing etc.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Zeroguy

[Zeroguy]

GD police vs criminals game.

[Adamq8]

You will become the world, thats oneness, formless presence.

Thats it.

Nothing is not " non concious" , the form just dissolves. 

Presence IS.

There really is no non existence.

Deep sleep and dreaming would really tell you something about reality and how the infinite presence just becomes everything and holds it.

When awakening occurs it is the realization that the form and ego is a fiction and is not the presence but at the same time it is since there is nothing else.

Nothing aka pure consciousness dreams.

[Zeroguy]

@Nahm Sometimes I have this sense that what life really is ,is just a process of you have small human relative to world and those 2 collide into 1 .

you and Infinite being(forgot and without knowing you were always 2nd thing) to you as Source of Infinite being and Creator of it.

[Zeroguy]

@Nahm you and Reality and every delusion you hold about it .Various degrees /ego development  to final well me as God/nodelusions left.

Glad I noticed evil is not necassary but that we should work on raising that ego development level .Not put it under the rug  even if in stand position of your dream it must happen.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Zeroguy

[Zeroguy]

@Nahm Wish you luck wih your trendings noble man.I have mine kinda feel I need them.Love you and I know you love me uncoditionally.

[GeoLura]

@RMQualtrough Aywn