Pertinent Question on taxation on billionares.

[Bobby_2021]

On 7/9/2021 at 1:11 AM, Karmadhi said:

Does Jeff Bezos really deserve having 200 billion dollars in his name? Did he work as much as millions of his employees combined? No body is saying he should not be rewarded more than someone stacking boxes in Amazon warehouses, however the amount of money he makes is ridicioulous. No reason for Jeff Bezos not to have 20 million in name and the other 199 billion distributed more fairly to the millions of underpaid workers that do 99.99999 percent of the actual work.

Distributing 199 billion isn't as easy since that money isn't tied up as cash.

Instead that's the price of the stocks in Amazon.

He can convert that money only if he sells those stocks. 

Please don't think so simplistically.

[Bobby_2021]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:00 PM, Leo Gura said:

What you should be more concerned with is this situation:

Mother of 3 works low wage job. Cannot afford to pay for children's medical care or school supplies because she's paying a higher tax % than Jeff Bezos. Her child gets sick and dies. Jeff Bezos cruises around in $500 mil yacht which he wrote off as a business expense, and he gets government tax credits and subsidies for his businesses.

@Leo Gura I think you are focusing on the end result too much.

Of course we all want free schools, colleges & healthcare, funded by taxes on the top 1%.

But the whole problem is that the top 1% is EXTREMELY GREEDY & MANIPULATIVE  that they are not willing to redistribute their wealth.

That's why we need a foolproof strategy to tax the rich.

On 7/8/2021 at 7:00 PM, Leo Gura said:

THIS is reality! Not your Federer rape shirt.

If you don't know how to deal with how to tax my $100m shirt, I am afraid you won't be able to touch billionares. 

Because that's how billionares avoid taxes in practice.

I am NOT talking about some out of touch with reality abstract world. 

The only change is that they use fancy watches and fine art to evade taxes, instead of a shirt.

You cannot sell a "portion of your shirt" like you do with stocks.

Watch this video for more : 

 

But I get the idea with stocks. 

Above a certain degree of net worth( say $10m) , billionares must sell a portion of their stocks to pay wealth tax.

I am sure that there will be some practical difficulties with implementing this as well, we have to discuss about this more as vast majority of people still think that billionare still hold billions of dollars in cash lol. This is just a projection of themelves.

[Geddos]

On 02.07.2021 at 1:36 PM, Bobby_2021 said:

Everytime I raise an argument to tax the billionares in an attempt to reduce inequality and give power to the people, I get thrown the same question.

The billionares net worth isn't tied up as cash. Instead their net worth is only becaue their stocks in their company is so large. So we can't tax them directly. Tax advisor near me price from company Your Books On Time.
 Honestly it is a good question.

For eg: If I have a T-shirt that is worth $30$, my net worth is also $30. 

Now lets say I got it signed by Roger Federer and now everyone wants it. People are willing to pay it $100 million for my shirt, but I haven't sold it yet. 

But my net worth also increased to $100 million. How shall I be taxed then? 

I want the most detailed and elaborative answer. Thank you.

 

 

how did you solve the issue with taxes?

[Bobby_2021]

On 7/8/2021 at 4:44 PM, Leo Gura said:

I have always been for the taxation for the rich. Nothing has changed.

 

What is your opinion regarding taxation backfiring? This is also the major right wing talking point.

What if the rich simply leave taking away the jobs with them? Isn't that going to hurt everyone. Is practicality undermined when we dicuss taxation? 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

France taxed at 75% income earners above $1M and it led to 42,000 millionares leaving the country.  Later it was scrapped.

"In 1990, twelve countries in Europe had a wealth tax. Today, there are only three: Norway, Spain, and Switzerland. According to reports by the OECD and others, there were some clear themes with the policy: it was expensive to administer, it was hard on people with lots of assets but little cash, it distorted saving and investment decisions, it pushed the rich and their money out of the taxing countries—and, perhaps worst of all, it didn't raise much revenue."

What is your opinion regarding taxation backfiring? This is also the major right wing talking point.

 

[Mannyb]

@Bobby_2021 if we simply started using the tax payers money in more resourceful ways it wouldn’t be such an issue that’s for sure ? 

[jerrypua]

On 7/8/2021 at 8:09 AM, Leo Gura said:

$10 million is literally plenty of reward for ANY job on the planet.

You know what feels really shitty? Paying someone who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long $20/day. How about rewarding them? Why do you not care about properly rewarding 99% of the workforce, but you are so passionate about rewarding the top 0.01% who are already so highly rewarded that literally they cannot feel the difference when we add an extra billion to their bank account?

Lmao imagine Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk with a net worth of only 10 million for the amount of value they've created, the complex systems they've created, and the new future they're creating for humanity.

..

Well, the guy who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long for $20/day put himself in that position, so yes, poor him lol. On the other hand, doing that shit is way easier than risking it all and sacrificing a lot of things not knowing you're going to succeed in the long term or not even knowing you're going to become a Billionaire.

Also the mental and emotional labor that comes with creating something valuable far exceeds the physical pain of doing some boring and repetitive shit and not having to use your brain... You talked about this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayEoiU5MOg4 (Great video btw)

And certainly being an entrepreneur creates way more value in the world than a guy in the hot sun picking strawberries and therefore the entrepreneur should be rewarded as such. And if he's rewarded in the billions, great for him.

Pd: Just sharing what I think, not hating you, nothing personal against you Leo haha, just a few differences in respect to this topic.

[captainamerica]

2 hours ago, jerrypua said:

Lmao imagine Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk with a net worth of only 10 million for the amount of value they've created, the complex systems they've created, and the new future they're creating for humanity.

..

Well, the guy who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long for $20/day put himself in that position, so yes, poor him lol. On the other hand, doing that shit is way easier than risking it all and sacrificing a lot of things not knowing you're going to succeed in the long term or not even knowing you're going to become a Billionaire.

Also the mental and emotional labor that comes with creating something valuable far exceeds the physical pain of doing some boring and repetitive shit and not having to use your brain... You talked about this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayEoiU5MOg4 (Great video btw)

And certainly being an entrepreneur creates way more value in the world than a guy in the hot sun picking strawberries and therefore the entrepreneur should be rewarded as such. And if he's rewarded in the billions, great for him.

Pd: Just sharing what I think, not hating you, nothing personal against you Leo haha, just a few differences in respect to this topic.

 

2 hours ago, jerrypua said:

$10 million is literally plenty of reward for ANY job on the planet.

You know what feels really shitty? Paying someone who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long $20/day. How about rewarding them? Why do you not care about properly rewarding 99% of the workforce, but you are so passionate about rewarding the top 0.01% who are already so highly rewarded that literally they cannot feel the difference when we add an extra billion to their bank account?

Also note that when Leo says literally 10 million, it is not really literally.

If you make the estimates properly the limit on wealth would have to be actually set at about 10 million dollars regardless of the value a person has created, not at 1 billion as it is claimed by some. It is a slippery slope from that point. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by captainamerica

[Opo]

3 hours ago, jerrypua said:

Well, the guy who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long for $20/day put himself in that position, so yes, poor him lol. 

Yea slaves put themselves in that position. 

Fuck em. 

[captainamerica]

2 hours ago, captainamerica said:

Also note that when Leo says literally 10 million, it is not really literally.

If you make the estimates properly the limit on wealth would have to be actually set at about 10 million dollars regardless of the value a person has created, not at 1 billion as it is claimed by some. It is a slippery slope from that point. 

Even after all this, the collective wealth will reduce, not increase. This is not the first time this will be implemented. It has been implemented 10s of times and there is more than enough data to understand it on a cause and effect basis. But an ideological person by definition can only care about his or her ideology. Even when the ideology is about caring about other people. That is the danger of ideology. Don't understand why that is a paradox in some groups, it is quite apparent. 

People are grossly incompetent in distinguishing between the concepts of wealth and money, at a collective level.  Politicians take advantage of this.

Edited November 11, 2021 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

22 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Even after all this, the collective wealth will reduce, not increase. This is not the first time this will be implemented. It has been implemented 10s of times and there is more than enough data to understand it on a cause and effect basis. But an ideological person by definition can only care about his or her ideology. Even when the ideology is about caring about other people. Don't understand why that is a paradox in some groups, it is quite apparent. 

Modern Monetary Theory/ Mony Printing hurts poor people and workers the most. In fact, it absolutely shatters them.

Yet Stephanie Kelton, literally the face of Modern Monetary Theory, is the senior economic advisor to Bernie Sanders. Now she is working with AOC as well.

Edited November 11, 2021 by captainamerica