Pertinent Question on taxation on billionares.

[captainamerica]

6 minutes ago, Epikur said:

We are talking about billionaires not people who have more than 30 million dollars.

@Epikur

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/wealthx-billionaire-census-majority-of-worlds-billionaires-self-made.html

[captainamerica]

4 minutes ago, Epikur said:

No billionaires are the tip of the iceberg to demostrate the problem. You have to start with the obvious.

Nice excuse but not the truth about people who misunderstand how money is actually made then simply cover their negative beliefs and lack of understanding of the subject with similar arguments. Not the first time this tactic is used.

[Opo]

6 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

@Epikur

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/wealthx-billionaire-census-majority-of-worlds-billionaires-self-made.html

What counts as self made? 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Opo

[Epikur]

Quote

the determining quality of billionaires is to be lucky—the other qualities being necessary but not sufficient. And luck is not meritocratic

More precisely, 65 percent of the world’s billionaire wealth meets at least one of these criteria: • Wealth mainly acquired in a corruption-prone country and state-dependent industry (high presumption of cronyism)

• Wealth mainly acquired in the mining, oil, and gas industry • Wealth inherited or ‘inherited and growing’ • Wealth mainly acquired in the finance, health care, and legal industries or as CEO of a company that one has neither founded nor inherited (high presumption of the asymmetries of information market failure)

• Wealth mainly acquired in the information technology industry (presumption of network externality, vendor lock-in, and public good market failures) Cronyism and inheritance alone (the first three criteria alone) account for 50 percent of the world’s billionaire wealth.

Moreover, 100 percent of billionaire wealth has benefited from globalization, economic growth, and population growth, which boost extreme wealth over time regardless of individuals’ actions.
 

https://www-cdn.oxfam.org/s3fs-public/file_attachments/dp-extreme-wealth-is-not-merited-241115-en.pdf

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Opo said:

I agree with this, the only difference is that my line of how much they should be able to make is a bit higher.

Lets say we taxed them at 95% after 50 mil. 

Do you still think the potential would be wasted? 

I don't care what the numbers are. The numbers are mostly arbitrary.

I would be happy with 5% to start.

34 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

The yacht money if redistributed will lose its value and will not accomplish much as it does in imagination. It is not that simple. I am not talking about higher taxes here. That is different. This is a gross abuse of how mathematics works. 

The money wasted by billionaires would stimulate the economy far more if it was put in the hands of ordinary consumers.

What you say is the opposite of true. Economic stimulus comes from pushing money down the hierarchy. Taxation does exactly that.

The money Jeff Bezos wasted on his yacht could have gone to his employees to educate their children. The yacht has zero value to society. The education of 1000 children directly adds value to society in a massive way.

It makes a huge difference how the money is distributed, or rather, who it is leeched from.

It is not his money to begin with.

Quote

About 70 percent of the wealth today is self-made. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/majority-of-the-worlds-richest-people-are-self-made-says-new-report.html

There you go again. Like a broken record.

What you call "self-made" is a lie.

That's like citing to me a report that says that wealth of 18th century Southern plantation owners was self-made. Yeah, through owning slaves!

Your definition of "self-made" is a socially constructed silliness.

Imagine I enslave your children and make them edit my videos for free for a lifetime. Then on my grave I will write: "Here lies Leo. Self-made success story."

29 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Why not say Billionaires serve this this function which is good. And these are the inefficiencies in the system. Lets us reform the system.

We will reform the system by changing it so that billionaires are taxed out of existence.

But they won't die. The people will still remain and still do all the same work they did before.

Quote

Saying Billionaires are stopping the potential of mankind by existing in a general and strict sense is completely inaccurate today. 

It's not Jeff Bezo's existence that I want to end, but rather his ability to leech wealth from workers.

I got nothing against Bezos personally. After we take away his ability to leech money from workers, he will still be exactly the same as he is.

You are acting as through I am talking about killing all entrepreneurs. No! We just take away their ability to hoard money.

[JosephKnecht]

 

On 02/07/2021 at 11:36 AM, Bobby_2021 said:

Now lets say I got it signed by Roger Federer and now everyone wants it. People are willing to pay it $100 million for my shirt, but I haven't sold it yet. 

But my net worth also increased to $100 million. How shall I be taxed then? 

I want the most detailed and elaborative answer. Thank you.

All value is subjective. 

In your example, the value was created by Roger Federer and not by you.

In your example, you are talking about unrealized value because you have not sold your shirt, so you should not be taxed at all. If you sell the shirt, I think you should pay VAT.

Why you shouldn't be taxed for unrealized gains? Imagine, that tomorrow Federer rapes someone and nobody wants to even hear the name, Federer. Then the value of the shirt goes from $100 million to $10 dollars. Imagine that you were forced to pay %10 tax at the valuation of $100 million. Where will you get the money? 

[Epikur]

 

[Leo Gura]

Your net worth can be taxed just like the worth of your house is today.

If your house costs $100 million, you pay about 2% tax on that per year. It makes no difference if you sell it or not.

But this would only apply if you are above a certain high net worth, like $10 mil+

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

Why you shouldn't be taxed for unrealized gains? Imagine, that tomorrow Federer rapes someone and nobody wants to even hear the name, Federer. Then the value of the shirt goes from $100 million to $10 dollars. Imagine that you were forced to pay %10 tax at the valuation of $100 million. Where will you get the money?

What if you buy a $100 mil house. Then your house gets destroyed by mudslide. You still owe 2% of $100 mil in taxes.

Welcome to real estate.

If you can't afford the annual tax, don't buy the house.

- - - - -

What you should be more concerned with is this situation:

Mother of 3 works low wage job. Cannot afford to pay for children's medical care or school supplies because she's paying a higher tax % than Jeff Bezos. Her child gets sick and dies. Jeff Bezos cruises around in $500 mil yacht which he wrote off as a business expense, and he gets government tax credits and subsidies for his businesses.

THIS is reality! Not your Federer rape shirt.

[JosephKnecht]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Welcome to real estate.

Then real estate won't be very real. 

It makes sense that Elon sold all his houses. Houses might collapse, but Dogecoin will exist even on the moon. And nobody can take his Doge.  

If you are smart, you want to own assets that are non-destructive.

[Leo Gura]

@JosephKnecht Lol

Your Doge will soon be worth less than roll of toilet paper.

Not "then". That's how real estate works TODAY!

[captainamerica]

 

 

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We will reform the system by changing it so that billionaires are taxed out of existence.

But they won't die. The people will still remain and still do all the same work they did before.

@Leo Gura Actually, WE will reform the system so that Billionaires finally pay their taxes.

While the murderous far-right and the thieving far-left is out of existence.

 

 

 

It is with the rhetoric of people like you that many powerful leaders don't wanna begin with even with one percent as soon it may escalate.

[Mannyb]

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - GTW. J. R. R. T.

Your own Self-realization is the greatest service you can render the world. - R. M.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

many powerful leaders don't wanna begin with even with one percent

Lol

As if they would even give 1% unless it was taken from them by force.

You sure make a good shill for the rich. They would happily pay you money to spread your ideas.

[Epikur]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

As if they would even give 1% unless it was taken from them by force.

 

6 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

 

It is with the rhetoric of people like you that many powerful leaders don't wanna begin with even with one percent as soon it may escalate.

That  is what the aristocracy in France thought as well before they ended up in a bad place. 

The biggest angst of the rich is when the poor decide to come for them.

 

[StarfoxEpiphany]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What if you buy a $100 mil house. Then your house gets destroyed by mudslide. You still owe 2% of $100 mil in taxes.

Welcome to real estate.

If you can't afford the annual tax, don't buy the house.

This way, real estate can't just sit there.  It makes people want to use it which is important because it's a finite resource.  Property tax is actually the beginning of Georgism which is arguably one of the foundations of a realistic libertarian society.

@Leo Gura

[Epikur]

 

[captainamerica]

1 hour ago, Opo said:

What counts as self made? 

 

 

@Epikur was talking about inheritance vs self made. So that. 

Arnold Schwarzenegger is talking about a third diff. thing. , Wise know there are many who helped them along their way.

https://nav.al/rich

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Opo]

17 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

was talking about inheritance vs self made. So that.  

Where is the line between these two things? 

Is Donald Trump self made? 

Is someone who's parents payed for tutors and a good school self made? 

... 

[captainamerica]

36 minutes ago, Epikur said:

 

@Epikur Oh! a holy lone data point of a conspiracy theorist.