Pertinent Question on taxation on billionares.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

What you are saying strawman Billionaires and their contributions to mankind. Their necessary place in today's society.

You are confusing two things: their work is necessary, but their wealth is not.

If a school teacher can do a good job on $50k/yr, then so can a CEO.

Just because you make necessary contributions to mankind does not mean you are entitled to charge a billion dollars for it.

Here's what you're missing about the psychology of billionaires. If we took away all of Elon Musk's money, he would still do his work. Because money is not what motivates him. These people are workaholics. They will work even if you tax them 100%.

[Opo]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

$10 million is literally plenty of reward for ANY job on the planet.

I feel the need to pull that number up. 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You know what feels really shitty? Paying someone who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long $20/day. How about rewarding them? Why do you not care about properly rewarding 99% of the workforce,

I care. 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

but you are so passionate about rewarding the top 0.01% who are already so highly rewarded that literally they cannot feel the difference when add an extra billion in their bank account?

Hahah yea.. 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do you see how fucked up your priorities are?

Kinda. 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How about rewarding teachers, police, firefighters, soldiers, mothers, construction workers, fast food workers, Amazon warehouse workers, delivery drivers? See, you don't give a fuck about these people who are being exploited to make Jeff Bezos a billionaire.

Saying I don't care is kinda unfair because I support higher taxes on the rich. 

What I worry about is a billionaire not doing something because we taxed them at 100% and then all of their workers suffering. 

A tax of 99% after some point I could see be a positive but not 100%.

[Leo Gura]

@captainamerica

3 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

I have deep insights on this topic and consciousness. Yours are not complete in this sub-niche of this subject.

Lol

[captainamerica]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is false. Like I told you but you failed to understand, this frame that billionaires create all their wealth is purely a social construction.

Again, according to your logic, kings and slavemasters come by their wealth through value creation too, therefore it is immoral to take away kingdoms and slave plantations.

This is, in fact, exactly what kings and slavemasters said.

Billionaires do not create their wealth. They leech it from workers. It is not possible to create a billion dollars in value otherwise.

You could be wrong about some things too Leo.

I routinely analyze 50-100s of factors in several of these topics each due to better ability. That's my gift. You are missing some key things in this. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@captainamerica

Lol

@Leo Gura Double lol.

Some insights you can never get with psychedelics. They can only be attained by meditation and EEG machines. Not even EEG machines are enough. Some come through mediation, being truthful 100 percent of the time, the aid of a Guru, devotion etc. Little-known methods for getting rare insights into consciousness. These are not possible otherwise.

[FoolsGold]

And here enters Spiritual Enlightenment on the topic of Taxation and Wealth inequality.

[captainamerica]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Here's what you're missing about the psychology of billionaires. If we took away all of Elon Musk's money, he would still do his work. Because money is not what motivates him. These people are workaholics. They will work even if you tax them 100%.

Without machinery, innovation is not possible. What you are saying will not work in real life today. The physical hardware or machinery is just not there. Elon Musk will work, I am talking about the work actually happening.

Tax them, but a 100 percent ?

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Opo]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Here's what you're missing about the psychology of billionaires. If we took away all of Elon Musk's money, he would still do his work. Because money is not what motivates him. These people are workaholics. They will work even if you tax them 100%.

I don't think so. 

Some of them will, some will do something that they wanted to do but didn't have the time and in the end have a better life, some will stop working out of lack of motivation or even spite and be lost... 

[captainamerica]

2 minutes ago, FoolsGold said:

And here enters Spiritual Enlightenment on the topic of Taxation and Wealth inequality.

Consciousness can be studied for the purpose of harmony as separate from Enlightenment. They are still connected though.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Opo said:

I don't think so. 

Some of them will, some will do something that they wanted to do but didn't have the time and in the end have a better life, some will stop working out of lack of motivation or even spite and be lost... 

If you're so worried about motivation, I want you to imagine the lost potential and motivation of 95% of the workforce who are mired in wage slavery. How many of them would do something great like Elon Musk, but they never will simply because they cannot afford to quit their Walmart job to pay their medical bills.

The whole problem with having billionaires is the massive lost motivation and potential of the rest of mankind.

If capital is so important to Elon Musk, why is it not also equally important to rest of mankind? You recognize that Musk needs capital to get shit done, but the rest of mankind are just, what?, lazy bums?

In our current system 95% of mankind's creative potential and motivation is being wasted to enable a handful of billionaires to buy mega-yachts and do joy-rides into space.

Any concern you have about billionaires losing money or motivation multiplies 1,000,000-fold across the general population in our current system. That's the absurdity of it.

A billionaire could run out of quarters for playing a slot machine and you'd be like: "But how will this poor billionaire make it in the world? What will cause him to wake up every morning if we don't give him his bag of quarters? What if he gets sad? What if he cries? What if he decides to quit life? Let's not take any chances. Let's hire a slave to bring him his bag of quarters and suck his dick too, just to be safe. We don't want to upset him."

[captainamerica]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're so worried about motivation, I want you to imagine the lost potential and motivation of 95% of the workforce who are mired in wage slavery. How many of them would do something great like Elon Musk, but they never will simply because they cannot afford to quit their Walmart job to pay their medical bills.

The whole problem with having billionaires is the massive lost motivation and potential of the rest of mankind.

If capital is so important to Elon Musk, why is it not also equally important to rest of mankind? You recognize that Musk needs capital to get shit done, but the rest of mankind are just, what?, lazy bums?

This level of redistribution done today will simply ensure that the value of the dollar employed in its current work is lost, without actually increasing the motivation of the rest like you are saying or the dollar holing similar values for them. Can you admit that this is correct while vision over the very long term(centuries) is worthwhile implementing as it will start becoming more and more practical?

If today the Billionaires don't exist the inequality would just shift to another group like conservative political parties, who knows some elite group of millionaires etc. Not the people, that's the fallacy I thought you can see this. It will not come down to the people who need it in the end. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

This level of redistribution done today

Nobody is talking about 100% taxation today. We are talking about inefficiencies in the system.

Reforming slavery took a Civil War and 500,000 lives.

Reforming as corrupt system is often difficult and dangerous in the short term.

[Epikur]

Quote

Approximately one third of billionaire wealth comes from inheritance.

another third of billionaire wealth comes from crony connections to government and monopoly.  This could be for example when billionaires secure concessions to provide services exclusively from government, using crony connections and corruption.


https://inequality.org/research/billionaires-sign-econ-failure/
 

 

[Opo]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're so worried about motivation, I want you to imagine the lost potential and motivation of 95% of the workforce who are mired in wage slavery. How many of them would do something great like Elon Musk, but they never will simply because they cannot afford to quit their Walmart job to pay their medical bills.

The whole problem with having billionaires is the massive lost motivation and potential of the rest of mankind.

If capital is so important to Elon Musk, why is it not also equally important to rest of mankind? You recognize that Musk needs capital to get shit done, but the rest of mankind are just, what?, lazy bums?

In our current system 95% of mankind's creative potential and motivation is being wasted to enable a handful of billionaires to buy mega-yachts and do joy-rides into space.

I agree with this, the only difference is that my line of how much they should be able to make is a bit higher.

Lets say we taxed them at 95% after 50 mil. 

Do you still think the potential would be wasted? 

[captainamerica]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're so worried about motivation, I want you to imagine the lost potential and motivation of 95% of the workforce who are mired in wage slavery. How many of them would do something great like Elon Musk, but they never will simply because they cannot afford to quit their Walmart job to pay their medical bills.

The whole problem with having billionaires is the massive lost motivation and potential of the rest of mankind.

If capital is so important to Elon Musk, why is it not also equally important to rest of mankind? You recognize that Musk needs capital to get shit done, but the rest of mankind are just, what?, lazy bums?

In our current system 95% of mankind's creative potential and motivation is being wasted to enable a handful of billionaires to buy mega-yachts and do joy-rides into space.

Any concern you have about billionaires losing money or motivation multiplies 1,000,000-fold across the general population in our current system. That's the absurdity of it.

A billionaire could run out of quarters for play a slot machine and you'd be like: "But how will this poor billionaire make in the world? What will cause him to wake up every morning if we don't give him a bag of quarters? What if he gets sad? What if he cries? What if decides to quit life?"

You are straw-manning billionairess and wealth creation at scale.

The yacht money if redistributed will lose its value and will not accomplish much as it does in imagination. It is not that simple. I am not talking about higher taxes here. That is different. This is a gross abuse of how mathematics works. 

About 70 percent of the wealth today is self-made. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/majority-of-the-worlds-richest-people-are-self-made-says-new-report.html

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[StarfoxEpiphany]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In our current system 95% of mankind's creative potential and motivation is being wasted to enable a handful of billionaires to buy mega-yachts and do joy-rides into space.

That's not true.  Most of their wealth is just stock shares, and with Amazon and Tesla they don't even get dividends out of it. 

It literally doesn't affect you except by inflating the stock price if you want to buy AMZN or TSLA

@Leo Gura

Edited July 8, 2021 by StarfoxEpiphany

[captainamerica]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Nobody is talking about 100% taxation today. We are talking about inefficiencies in the system.

 

Why not say Billionaires serve this this function which is good. And these are the inefficiencies in the system. Lets us reform the system.

Saying Billionaires are stopping the potential of mankind by existing in a general and strict sense is completely inaccurate today. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Epikur]

3 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

You are straw-manning billionairess and wealth creation at scale.

The yacht money if redistributed will lose its value and will not accomplish much as it does in imagination. It is not that simple. I am not talking about higher taxes here. That is different. This is a gross abuse of how mathematics works. 

About 70 percent of the wealth today is self-made. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/majority-of-the-worlds-richest-people-are-self-made-says-new-report.html

We are talking about billionaires not people who have more than 30 million dollars.

They count as self made if you did it with mafia methods. 
 

[captainamerica]

5 minutes ago, Epikur said:

They count as self made if you did it with mafia methods. 
 

hahaha 

Here comes the negative belief that money is evil and lack of real understanding of how money is made that I was referring to before. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Epikur]

Just now, captainamerica said:

Why not say Billionaires serve this this function which is good. And these are the inefficiencies in the system. Lets us reform the system.

Saying Billionaires are stopping the potential of mankind by existing in a general and strict sense is completely inaccurate today. 

No billionaires are the tip of the iceberg to demostrate the problem. You have to start with the obvious.