Pertinent Question on taxation on billionares.

[captainamerica]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

See, if you had a billion dollars and you mother was dying of cancer due to inability to pay for her doctor, but you desired to hoard your billions, we would call that a sick situation.

 

Printing money does not solve this problem as Zimbabwe did. Nor does redistribution like you are saying due to your survival agenda or perspective perhaps.

Redistribution after a point will make that dollar amount itself lose its value. Instead of helping people, it will not even be used for the wealth creation it is employed today. 

Ask real economists how this works. It is not simple like you are saying. Wealth cannot be just printed directly or redistributed without structures in place. These structures are what we call evolution. No magical pills to evolve billions of people in knowledge, political structures, collective human wealth aka technology, etc. at once. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Opo]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I have always been for the taxation for the rich.

Of course. 

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Nothing has changed.

Didn't you say in the politics video that your system would allow billionaires? 

Or are you talking about the far future now? 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Wealth cannot be just printed directly, or redistributed.

I am not saying to print wealth.

It can certainly be distributed better.

If Amazon employees got double their salary, society would be better off. That you can't see this shows your lack of vision.

You frame this situation as though we would be stealing money from Jeff Bezos. But consider another frame: Bezos stole most of his money from Amazon employees.

You see, 500 years ago, a king would claim that all the money in the country was his. And when people suggested to change that system, the king righteously felt that they would stealing all his money. But the deeper truth was that the king got all his money by stealing it from the people. So the people took it back and killed the king.

No one gets a billion dollars by earning it. You get a billion dollars by stealing it. This is crucial to understand.

The logic you are using is exactly the same logic that was used to justify kingdoms.

You are assuming that a billionaire's wealth rightly belongs to him. But this purely a social construction.

[Opo]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am not here morally judging billionaires. I am pointing out that the situation for society is dysfunctional and unwholesome. A more conscious society would curb such foolishness.

What is a better way to allocate resources? 

[captainamerica]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You frame this situation as though we would be stealing money from Jeff Bezos. But consider another frame: Bezos stole most of his money from Amazon employees.

@Leo Gura 100 percent taxation and higher income for the employees. We are worlds apart.

It literally seems like you are taking the argument and misdirecting it, honestly. And Bezos did not steal most of his money from his employees. His company added like  5- 10 trillion dollars to peoples' lives. Out of that, about 15 percent is Amazon's market cap.  Of that 5-10 trillion Bezos has like 2 percent. Common bro.

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Joel3102]

I think worry about raising taxes to a decent progressive tax system rather than focusing on eliminating billionares at this point, one step at a time. Ideally, billionares probably shouldn't exist, because there's not good reason for one person that have that much wealth. On the other hand, a 100% tax would almost certainly not be good for the economy right now

[captainamerica]

 

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No one gets a billion dollars by earning it. You get a billion dollars by stealing it. This is crucial to understand.

 

@Leo Gura Today, one can earn billions of dollars by inventing great products, movies, etc. It is harmonious to practically all the elements, given today's variables. 

Your frame is wrong. Or 500 about years from now. By visioning 300-500 years your life purpose is getting fulfilled and in a good way. It must feel very fulfilling to you as well. But what about now?

"A conscious society" as you call it will have more than that. It will have education and collective wealth like technology etc. for it to work that way. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Epikur]

 

[Opo]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No one gets a billion dollars by earning it. You get a billion dollars by stealing it. This is crucial to understand.

Lets say I cured cancer.

Wouldn't that be worth more than a billion dollars?

I get the argument that I don't need it but not that I stole it. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Opo

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Opo said:

Didn't you say in the politics video that your system would allow billionaires? 

Or are you talking about the far future now? 

First off all, I'm not saying we should right now tax billionaires at 100%. I was just making a general point that IF we did tax them at 100%, it could be reasonable and it would not be some kind of "theft".

Secondly, it depends a lot on our time horizon. Today such ideas would not fly. But in 100 years they might become the norm. When I talk about politics I generally focus on what's feasible within my lifetime. We would be lucky to get a 2% tax within my lifetime. So I am not at all worried about overtaxing the rich.

I will be long dead before a serious person utters the words, "My God! We've made a horrible mistake. We've over-taxed the rich."

[Opo]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

First off all, I'm not saying we should right now tax billionaires at 100%. I was just making a general point that IF we did tax them at 100%, it could be reasonable and it would not be some kin of "theft".

For me in a healthy society if you bring value to it you get rewarded. I get that at that point money is almost irrelevant to them but I don't know how else to reward them. 

And not rewarding them feels shitty. 

 

[captainamerica]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But that does not mean slavery would last. Neither will billionaires. They will go extinct like kings.

Kings not existing is the same way someday money itself will become unconscious and will cease to exist. This does not mean money is wrong and I compare money to slavery.

Society was not evolved enough then to allow for trades and other growth activities without Kings. Even Science was not possible without Kings, society was so underdeveloped. 

Out of Kings, Massive wealth/value/product creation, etc. choosing to compare Billionaires to slavery is certainly not the most accurate choice. 

Being targeted at 2 percent, 1 percent whatever the correct number is makes it much more likely to happen than some person believing in socialism for the US, another thinking billion dollars is wrong now, another religious fanatic calling money itself wrong, some wanting 70 percent, etc., in my humble opinion. People have a wrong belief that money is evil, when they hear such things they instantly jump to conclusions about the rich. Others may consider it wrong for society in some timeframe. The difference between both these types of people is vast when they physically implement their ideas or when it is physically manifested. The former is destructive for society. This is a subtle nuance, not many get. They think when the surface ideas are matching they will match physically as well, but the difference is two universes apart.

I do love your work, Leo. Gotta agree to disagree in that case I guess.

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Opo said:

For me in a healthy society if you bring value to it you get rewarded. I get that at that point money is almost irrelevant to them but I don't know how else to reward them. 

And not rewarding them feels shitty.

$10 million is literally plenty of reward for ANY job on the planet.

You know what feels really shitty? Paying someone who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long $20/day. How about rewarding them? Why do you not care about properly rewarding 99% of the workforce, but you are so passionate about rewarding the top 0.01% who are already so highly rewarded that literally they cannot feel the difference when we add an extra billion to their bank account?

Do you see how fucked up your priorities are?

How about rewarding teachers, police, firefighters, soldiers, mothers, construction workers, fast food workers, Amazon warehouse workers, delivery drivers? See, you don't give a fuck about these people who are being exploited to make Jeff Bezos a billionaire.

17 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Kings not existing is the same way someday money itself will become unconscious will not exist. This does not mean money is wrong and I compare it to slavery.

Billionaires are a lot more analogous to kings than to the existence of money itself.

Money is a necessary and important technology. Billionaires are not necessary, like kings.

Quote

Society was not evolved enough then to allow for trades and other growth activities without Kings. Even Science was not possible without Kings, society was so underdeveloped. 

Out of Kings, Massive wealth creation, etc.

All this is true of slavery.

In the 1850s you'd be in a public forum shouting that our society is not evolved enough to abolish slavery and that we cannot function without slaves. Out of slaves, massive wealth creation, etc. We can even fuck them for free. How can a man live without having slaves to fuck? Our society cannot handle it.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You know what feels really shitty? Paying someone who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long $20/day.

Why don't you make a video on this thought?

That would be awesome 

 

 

[Epikur]

Some feel a lot of empathy with billionaires but not with slaves for some reason.

[captainamerica]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Billionaires are a lot more analogous to kings than to the existence of money itself.

 

Systematically your statement is wrong as Billionaires come by value creation and getting like 1-2 percent of that money created by them. Even existentially this insight is wrong as Absolute manifests in the relative using certain mechanisms which can be studied. Separate from that, dharma or righteousness is recognized according to some principles formed more than your definition of "being more conscious". What you are saying bypasses this.

[captainamerica]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

$10 million is literally plenty of reward for ANY job on the planet.

 

@Leo Gura If this is implemented today then it will lead to self-cannibalization of the value being created at scale itself due to power shifts, power which the society does not viably has structures to place that power somewhere else. Instead of helping others create value and live well. 

What use is "being more conscious" if it goes beyond current evolutionary demands, straight to the Moon and right beyond it?

Real consciousness increase happens in the relative domain's problems, according to how reality is functioning on the physical plane.

Edited July 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Systematically your statement is wrong as Billionaires come by value creation and getting like 1-2 percent of that money created by them.

This is false. Like I told you but you failed to understand, this frame that billionaires create all their wealth is purely a social construction.

Again, according to your logic, kings and slavemasters come by their wealth through value creation too, therefore it is immoral to take away kingdoms and slave plantations.

This is, in fact, exactly what kings and slavemasters said.

Billionaires do not create their wealth. They leech it from workers. It is not possible to create a billion dollars in value otherwise.

Quote

Even existentially this insight is wrong as Absolute manifests in the relative using certain mechanisms which can be studied. Separate from that, dharma or righteousness is recognized according to some principles formed more than your definition of "being more conscious". What you are saying bypasses this.

Don't even start quoting consciousness at me. Your devil mind will use "consciousness" to justify whatever selfish thing you believe.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

If this is implemented today

Don't worry. It's not going to be, thanks to folks like you.

[captainamerica]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You know what feels really shitty? Paying someone who works in the hot sun picking strawberries all day long $20/day. How about rewarding them? Why do you not care about properly rewarding 99% of the workforce, but you are so passionate about rewarding the top 0.01% who are already so highly rewarded that literally they cannot feel the difference when add an extra billion in their bank account?

Do you see how fucked up your priorities are?

How about rewarding teachers, police, firefighters, soldiers, mothers, construction workers, fast food workers, Amazon warehouse workers, delivery drivers? See, you don't give a fuck about these people who are being exploited to make Jeff Bezos a billionaire.

We do that is why we stand for higher taxation and wages. A lot of what you said is due to the govt. functioning. 

What you are saying strawman Billionaires and their contributions to mankind. Their necessary place in today's society.