Why do Buddhists say there can be freedom from the cycle of birth and death?

[mandyjw]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

an end requires a beginning which cannot be found. 

?

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

It’s time to strengthen my ego in a healthy way to allow myself to persist. 

You don't have to strengthen your ego, ego points to a energy/belief system behind thought that seems to be driving thought, but is actually a thought itself. This misunderstanding continues to drive thought and drives thought loops that feel awful to entertain. Ego is just a lazy term to help you imagine what's behind suffering. The term can be used to prop up and perpetuate suffering, in a thought loop about ego. What's actually behind and prior to thoughts is awareness, the center with no center. Worship consciousness, that which knows, not that which is known. That's the end of the loop, the end of the cycle. 

If what you mean by strengthen the ego is to get intentional about how you use thought, then great. Writing, journaling, making lists of what you really want, examining patterns that feel bad as they come up when you cannot just drop the thoughts or drop into meditation, all good uses of thought. When you realize that thought is not for a "you", that thought is for thought, that "you" can not actually use thought but are a thought, thought stops using you. Then for the first time, it seems like "you" can truly, fully use thought for the intended purpose of creation. You become the author, not the character, and only the character can reappear in future stories. The author is the constant whether writing, planning or not. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by mandyjw

[WaveInTheOcean]

4 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

After cessation, I’m pretty confused and a bit worried. Is this really my last go? I don’t see how they could have any solid epistemic ground to stand on regarding this. 

I thought becoming free from suffering sounded like a good thing. Now I’m kind of seeing how fun the whole suffering game has been... 

??????

Being asleep is fun but is suffering.

Being awake is boring but is bliss.

Pick your poison!

Maybe you haven't suffered enough;) Maybe the devil wants a last dance with you. 

What do YOU want?

Edited July 1, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Gabith]

4 hours ago, Anahata said:

You can imagine & experience anything. You are infinity. You are free. You are the eternal now. Enjoy 

How do you verify that ?

[BipolarGrowth]

2 hours ago, The Buddha said:

This sentence shows that u are truly going all the way, you are starting to go full circle. It is a very interesting process enjoy it, it's beautiful. In lots of tradition is one of the common last steps. I loved the way Osho explained it, when the master returns from the Himalayas to the marketplace, absolutely drunk with the divine fragrance. The marketplace is a great dance he enjoys and plays while being still. There is very deep wisdom in these words and in fact talks about what u are starting to experience now.

Namaste ?? 

[WaveInTheOcean]

14 minutes ago, Gabith said:

How do you verify that ?

5 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

 

By letting go of the need to verify everything.

But you can't let go of it.

You can't do anything.

To realize you can't do anything and that everything 'you do' is beyond your control, but orchestrated by Infinity/The Universe at large (just like a wave in the ocean can't do anything but is totally orchestrated by the ocean & wind ?️ ? ?), that is called 'surrender' and/or 'faith.'

Let go.

[Gabith]

6 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

By letting go of the need to verify everything.

But you can't let go of it.

You can't do anything.

To realize you can't do anything and that everything 'you do' is beyond your control, but orchestrated by Infinity/The Universe at large (just like a wave in the ocean can't do anything but is totally orchestrated by the ocean & wind ?️ ? ?), that is called 'surrender' and/or 'faith.'

Let go.

How are you sure that it is not produced by your brain ?

The simple fact that the brain exist and that we experience reality because of it is mindblowing but maybe there is death and no infinite consciousness, all our mystical states are produced by our brain and it is so powerful and mindblowing that we believe it is real ?

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 minutes ago, Gabith said:

How are you sure that it is not produced by your brain ?

Look dude. Look. Inward. Actually start contemplating without the need to get an answer.

The questioning ITSELF *is* "the answer" you are truly looking for.

A concrete answer to a question is ALWAYS *limited*. You see?

It's the question that's the higher view, the answer that's the lower view -- otherwise you couldn't differentiate between the two, huh? ?????️?☯️?♾️?

Instead of asking questions to others, perhaps start asking questions to yourself, such as why you are so addicted to the need to ground 'reality' (everything) in 'a brain'  ??

Social conditioning.

Programming.

Matrix.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Look.

I can't help you. Help yourself.

Quote

The simple fact that the brain exist and that we experience reality because of it is mindblowing but maybe there is death and no infinite consciousness, all our mystical states are produced by our brain and it is so powerful and mindblowing that we believe it is real ?

'Simple fact' - oh, be careful about 'simple facts' ! ??

Edited July 1, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Someone here]

Because Buddhism is a religion. Just like all other religions. It's full of dogma and beliefs that aren't necessarily true. Duh 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Someone here

[WaveInTheOcean]

53 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Because Buddhism is a religion. Just like all other religions. It's full of dogma and beliefs that aren't necessarily true. Duh 

yes, yes, but: full of truth as well  depends on interpretation, you know.

There is truth (:>GOD:>) hidden in every religion, every song, every piece of art, every part of nature, every critter, every river, every blow of wind, every tree, every ray of sunshine, every grain of sand, every colorful flower, every drop of rain, every wave in the oceans, every disaster, every blessing, every curse, every gift, every human stranger you meet.

 just look, listen. like really.

Edited July 1, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Someone here]

@WaveInTheOcean agreed!

Why so passionate recently? 

[WaveInTheOcean]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@WaveInTheOcean agreed!

Why so passionate recently? 

too much ayahuasca, too much changa, too much 2c-b, too much summer, too much love, too much of the world's best psychotherapist (for me), too many amazing friends/familiy, too much health, too much 'luck', too much to be grateful for....

too much silence
everything is seen as frequency
the universe becomes a symphony
too much music

I'm exploding outwardly like a 'hectic marketplace', yet I'm still inwardly like the "Himalayas" ....

Edited July 1, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Someone here]

@WaveInTheOcean I can tell you are feeling nice. 

Keep Goin. Good luck 

[WaveInTheOcean]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@WaveInTheOcean Why so passionate recently?   I can tell you are feeling nice. 

Why do you want to know -- give it a go.

or

If you really want to know why -- give it a go.

<3 <3 <3

Edited July 1, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Nahm]

Why do Buddhists say there can be freedom from the cycle of birth and death?

It is freedom from the carrousel of thoughts, which no one ever exits. It is a reference to thought activity, not a reincarnation of separate selves.

The ‘wheel’:

Subject object thoughts.

Self referential thoughts.

 

[BipolarGrowth]

@Nahm good and concise! Thanks man. 

[Nahm]

@BipolarGrowth ?? 

[RMQualtrough]

7 hours ago, Gabith said:

How are you sure that it is not produced by your brain ?

The simple fact that the brain exist and that we experience reality because of it is mindblowing but maybe there is death and no infinite consciousness, all our mystical states are produced by our brain and it is so powerful and mindblowing that we believe it is real ?

The mystical states are produced in the finite self by manipulation of the brain. This does not matter when you understand nonduality. Nonduality cannot be experienced fully by a finite self, it causes "cessation", so you can only come very close.

The finite self that you mean right now is a brain. Like how to experience a dream you must be localized in the dream (proveable), to experience the dream called material universe you must be localized in it. Which we are. As brains.

The brain causes the finite self to interpret raw data in an array of ways (qualia), it does not itself PRODUCE the qualia or consciousness.

Imagine there is a canvas covered in many colors. On top is a blank white piece of cardboard. That represents the finite self (brain). Now take a hole punch and make some holes in the cardboard so the colors on the canvas show. That is what your brain is doing.

Just like when a magician pulls a rabbit put of the hat, only a fool believes the rabbit was not already there.

[Ananta]

The Vedanta perspective:

"While Vedanta says that moksha confers freedom from birth and death, this emancipation is not a matter of a “soul” (or what Vedanta refers to as the sukshma sharira, or subtle body) gaining some state of freedom, but rather is the result of assimilating the understanding that the Self is already free and, thus, has never been born in the first place and, such being the case, is not subject to an ultimate demise. Having gained self-knowledge, the jnani realizes that her true identity is not the person she seems to be, but rather limitless conscious existence, and hence “becomes” free from the cycle of birth and death. Thus, moksha can be viewed from two perspectives. From the perspective of the jiva, moksha applies only to the present incarnation. From the perspective of the Self (though actually the self has no perspective due to its impersonality and all-pervasiveness), moksha is its nature and, thus, the whole issue is a moot point. The reason Vedanta says that self-knowledge ends the cycle of birth and death is because through self-inquiry, the truth of one’s eternal nature is revealed. And the virtue of gaining such knowledge is that it ends the jiva’s suffering within the context of the present incarnation."

~Annonymous 

[The0Self]

On 7/1/2021 at 7:48 AM, Gabith said:

How are you sure that it is not produced by your brain ?

The simple fact that the brain exist and that we experience reality because of it is mindblowing but maybe there is death and no infinite consciousness, all our mystical states are produced by our brain and it is so powerful and mindblowing that we believe it is real ?

But it’s all cleared up after enlightenment, which is actually the end of mystical experiences. It will be obvious that there is no brain or awareness. Awareness is just a function of the brain, but the brain is just like anything else — the timeless appearing as time-bound-happening.

[Guru Fat Bastard]

2 hours ago, Ananta said:

the Self is already free and, thus, has never been born in the first place and, such being the case, is not subject to an ultimate demise. Having gained self-knowledge, the jnani realizes that her true identity is not the person she seems to be, but rather limitless conscious existence,

?
To be realized and not simply believed. While this is the Truth from the Vedanta perspective, it's ultimately the Truth and aim of all the major religions.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Guru Fat Bastard